Yes, another Tumbling Question
 

;-) I am totally amazed at how many posts there are about tumble etching beads and metals and here I am adding yet another. :lol: I've read for 2 days (on and off) the posts on tumble etching beads, glass beads, and metal and I'm still unsure the best way to get a pretty nice matte finish on my glass beads. I have the tumbler, the grit is being delivered today & of course I have beads.

Besides all that and water, what else goes in the tumbler ? I've read add soap - don't need soap. I've read add plastic pony beads or add glass pony beads. I'm sure I'm missing something here.

Maybe I need to just try all the different ways I've read about and see what I like best. lol ! Maybe, I just answered my own question however, please, I'd love to hear how YOU do it. Just for glass beads please. Adding in metals just makes it more confusing. lol !

Plastic pony beads are useless. After trying those I decided to try a bunch of wonky and cracked beads. Worked like a charm! I was doing large hollows so it was easy to sort them, but if you used some that were cracked or clearly wonky that would make sorting easier. Good luck!

here is what I do to get a nice, matte finish.

Put into tumbling barrel:
water to just cover beads
about a tablespoon of 120grit aluminum oixde (any grade of grit is fine, the higher the number, the finer the particle size and presumably the smoother matte finish)
some (5-6) trash glass beads to provide more "rubbing" action
the nice bead(s)

tumble for 6-24 hours or even longer until desired finish

I also just leave the water, grit and trash beads in the barrel and use it over and over until the grit is really fine, then I dump it and start over. Note: I've only dumped the whole thing about 2x over the course of 3 years, tumbling every couple of weeks or so.

Along with the grit, mine has cheap size 6 glass beads (that's what I had on hand) and several strips of ultra suede. The strips are somewhat irregular shapes because I used scraps. They are roughly 1/2-3/4" wide by 2" long. The ultra suede can be left in the mixture when not in use. I don't remember ever adding soap, that is for metals.

When I only had the beads, the mixture worked fine but seemed to take a long time. Once I added the ultra suede it was much faster.

I still use chemical if the bead has enough dimension that the mixture can't get inside the grooves. I also use chemical for delicate beads, like my very long thin bones. For smoother beads they look much more beautiful with tumble etching than chemical.

Haven't tumble etched in a while, hopefully the mixture is still ready to go, has been in the past even after long gaps in use.

Yup - got some cheap-ass glass beads at a craft store so that I could easily tell which ones were mine, add water & grit then tumble away. Plastic beads would grind away to nothing fairly quickly.

I pour out into a throw-away plastic bowl w/large screen strainer on top - makes it easier to separate the beads from the gunk. Pour the liquid sludge back into barrel & it's ready to go again.

dj

Thanks everyone for your input.
So, what I am understanding. No plastic beads period. No problem.
I have plenty of wonky glass beads, glass pony beads and larger size glass seed beads I can use as "other" medium.

Still a little confused on the grit. Everything I read said to get Silicon carbide 1000 grit was mentioned quite a few times so that's what I got.

Elizabeth, you say aluminum oxide is what you use. Is there a difference in using one over the other ?

Kathy - please tell me more about adding the ultra suede. What difference did it make ? How much did you use ?

As for the soap - I read on MANY posts to add it to the mix when tumbling glass. Only a drop or two. I wonder what the difference is between using and not using soap? Or IF there is a difference at all ?

More questions ! lol !

Cleaning as well?
 

You can buy a cheap rock tumbler at hobby lobby, about 30 bucks. You don't want to use the same tumbler barrel for cleaning and etching. Then you need to get or make some twisted wire,
cut it and put it through your bead bending one end into a circle the other just bend up.
Once the bead or beads are on the wire. Make sure there is room enough for them to slide back and forth.
The sliding motion of the tumbler will clean the inside of the bead for you. You can do a lot of beads
at once this way, while you do something else. It takes about an hour or less to do the cleaning.
Put the beads on the wires into the tumbler add warm water to about 3/4 full add a bit of dish soap to the mix.
Then tumble, take them out when done and rinse them off, but not in your house drains it may eventually clog them. Especialy grinding compounds.
I do mine outdoors with a strainer and hose.
Dump the beads into a strainer and rinse, bend the one end down and remove the wires and save them for the next batch.

I think the finish is smoother with the 1000 but they will all work. Think sandpaper grits and how they work on wood.
I did put a drop or two of soap in the mix because that is what I read, but have no idea why ;)
And I am going to try to loosely string some together next time as I recently read, both for ease in getting them out, and to keep the small beads from getting in any holes that may be larger than they are.

Soap
 

Well think about how slippery it is, so the abrasion is not so hard on the glass.
It's like a little cushion between the beads.
It also cleans all the Kentucky Fried Chicken off of them.

I have a batch going now. I bought the HB tumbler years ago and I mean a very long time ago and never used it because the top didn't fit right. Figured all that out and it's working fine. I did add a drop or so of soap, some 6/0 seed beads and lots of wonky beads with the set I wanted etched. So, only time will tell. Not real crazy about how it's heating up under that plate. Also, I read on one of the posts to check the container for gas build up if it's a rubber tumbler. It is.

I'm not completely sure how long to let it go but will check it later this evening say after dinner. That's about a good 4 hours or so.

Forgot about stringing the beads together. Will do that next time.
Not going to clean with the tumbler although that sounds like a pretty good idea. I have my diamond bead reamer and dremel for that. :)

That explains it very well. Thanks much ! :)

Also, wanted to post a link to where I got the grit. This place shipped the same day I ordered it. Best price I could find for the product and the cheapest shipping I could find. I ordered it Tuesday and it arrived today. http://www.arrowheadlapidarysupply.c...=3921&prodpa=0

If you're using wonky beads in the mix, make sure you count the "good" beads when you put them in the tumbler-- they all look alike with gunk all over them and it helps to know how many you're looking for. Ask me how long it took me to learn this.

And if you're tumbling small beads or spacers, it helps if you tie them together with monofilament line--they're impossible to find in the muck.

I have heard that some of the tumblers have belts that don't last very long and that the thing to do was to get vacuum cleaner belts to fit. Seems those last forever.

This is PURE GENIUS.

Someone said that pipe cleaners from a tobacco store for actually cleaning pipes have little barbs of thin wire twisted in with the felting or cotton or what ever the white stuff is and that the barbs cleans out the bead release while the tumbler runs.

Any grit will work, the higher the number, the finer the grit. The finer the grit, the smoother the finish.

I got the 120 grit Al. Oxide because that is what Harbor Freight had on hand at the time. So, far I've been very happy with the matte finish this grit produces.

I was NOT happy with the finish I got on transparent beads with the Aluminum Oxide. They didn't have that nice, velvet-like matte finish - they came out much rougher. It is much better with Silicon Carbide.


Aimee

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...t=Etch+leather
Look at post #6, Nat told me she used leather to speed things up and quiet the noise. I thought leather would get a bit icky if I left it in the barrel, so I substituted ultra suede since I had some on hand. I seem to remember doing a batch without and being frustrated that it took so long, then I added the strips to the barrel and it worked faster.

I probably used about 6 strips. They often stick to the barrel sides when I'm fishing out beads, so I really haven't paid attention to the number in ages. They look pretty gross coated in gunk!

Compounds
 

Thanks Elizabeth. :)

This is very interesting. I wonder why this helps the process along ? I think I have some ultra suede so will give it a try. Thanks for the info Kathy ! :)

Another thing I was thinking about this morning. I've read to fill the canister 1/2 full of water OR just enough to cover the beads plus a bit more. Does it matter ? I filled it half way with water.

The tumbler ran for 8 hours yesterday. I didn't want it to run all night. Didn't trust that it had heated up so much. Will check it again this morning to see if it needs to go longer.

As for gases filling the container. When I did check it for the last time last night, it did let out "air" several times. I am quite sure it was because of the soap that was added. At first I didn't add the soap. When I checked it after a couple hours it didn't release any "air". After I added the soap and checked, it DID release "air". Kind of a whoosh sound.

Could be I'm making too much out of this whole thing but I find it all very interesting. I've been using liquid Etch All for years. Works great, easy to use, etc. but like alot of folks, not really liking that it's nasty chemicals. Wanted to try the tumbling but always want to get this sort of thing right the first time in.

I appreciate all the help, suggestions, input here. :)

Gases
 

I have used tumblers for years even when I was making jewels for stained glass windows. A lot of them were ground and polished in a tumbler. On beads I like a nice satin etch so I use 1000 grit for etching. I've never had any gas build up but I do know it can happen. It may be caused by the oxide you use as a compound to etch with. I use black silicon carbide, never have used aluminum oxide? The coarser grits may produce some gas. Right now I have a tumbler I bought at hobby lobby for about 30 bucks. The barrel is a very ridged plastic and that may make a difference in how much pressure it creates. I'm sure your tumbler won't explode so I wouldn't worry about it. Just check it every couple hours and release the gas. Open it slowly to do that. You need just enough water to cover the beads in the barrel and about a tbl spoon of compound depending on how big your barrel is. I only use dish soap when I'm using it for cleaning beads, I have a separate barrel just for that. I also throw some little glass scraps in there as a carrying agent for the compounds and to get into any crevasses. I've heard all kinds of things about this over the years. Some people use plastic pellets, some use wood shavings, some use steel shot and some use corn cobs. The shot is used mostly for polishing metals. I use glass scrap, it just makes sense to me that something to soft is going to increase the time it takes to etch. You can also reclaim the compounds each time and use them again. Eventually they will break down into a finer frit. I just swirl the water in the tumbler and pour it into a plastic coffee can for later use. Whatever you do, don't pour them down a drain in your house they like to build up and clog the plumbing. More on all this coming soon.
P.S. I have been known to use toy box sand for a coarser etch.

Tumbler info
 

http://panadyneabrasives.com/Silicon-Carbide_c17.htm

http://geology.com/rock-tumbler/rock...ructions.shtml

And you thought tumbling was something you did in gym class.
I don't believe there really is any wrong or right way to do it.
It's just that some ways are quicker and better.

You needn't worry about the coarse grinds here they are doing rocks not glass.
Nor will it take weeks to do it.
Glass on the scale of hardness (the Mohs scale) of 1 to 10 comes in around 5, diamonds are 10
Anything at 5 or above will score, scratch or grind glass even glass itself.
Kentucky Fried Chicken isn't even on the list.
They need to get another Colonel Sanders this new guy is an idiot.

Thanks again hyperT for all the info. Much appreciated. :)

I agree with you for sure on the new Col. Sanders. Yuck !

When I checked the tumbler this morning, I found that it had leaked. Nothing major since it was turned off last night but it leaked. One part of the lid never fit properly which is why I never used it before now. It's the metal part that goes on top that's not fitting properly so not sure it can actually be fixed. Will have hubby look at it. Can't return the darned thing either since I've had it for so long. Oh well........

It did etch the beads quite nicely though as you can see in the photo. That was with about an 8 hour tumble. Might not of needed so long but the last time I checked it was at the 6 hour mark and there was one bead in that little set that was not 100% etched. Either that or when I rinsed and dried them it didn't dry all the way. lol ! Anyway, the etch looks pretty good. I compared it to a set etched with liquid Etch All and there is no difference at all. Very cool.

So what I learned - Barrel half full with water works fine. One tablespoon of 1000 grit Silcone Carbide works fine. I did add a drop of dish soap which I believe could of caused the "gas" build-up which I did need to release. Or let's say I needed to "BURB" the rubber canister. :) While tumbling, check every couple of hours to burb and to see how the etch is working. That one pound bag of grit will last FOREVER ! lol !

Next test, to see how well this will work on transparent beads. :) I gotta make 'em first. lol !



http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...%20640x454.jpg

Thanks for posting your process and results.

Cool now go burp your Tupperware and fill up the tumbler. The more beads you have in it, the faster it will etch within reason.

Very pretty.

Any chance of placing a fabric or a rubberized sheet across the mouth of the canister and then putting the lid on it to get a non leaking seal?

Maybe a handful of Teflon tape wraps?