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-   -   murrini help (http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125062)

terryl 2009-03-19 11:07am

murrini help
 
I just recently purchased some lovely murrini from some of the vendors on this board, and I am just ruining their beautiful work. I thought I knew how to apply these, but obviously I am doing something wrong. My beads just come out all blurry. I am apparently smearing these when I apply them. Any tips from some of you who are not challenged with murrini?



Terryl

RSimmons 2009-03-19 11:25am

Once you get the murrini applied to the bead you have to be very careful about how much heat you put into the glass. If your piece is getting too hot then the murrini will run and smear as the glass around it begins to flow. Easy does it and maybe work a little slower. Try to avoid tool work, too, as this can pull the glass and contribute to the smearing.

Robert

Margrieten 2009-03-19 12:16pm

Hello,

I have a few links for you:

http://jetagestudio.googlepages.com/...urrini_Tut.pdf

http://tutorials.kralalien.nl/Sweetheart_tutorial/

http://blog.glassbysarah.com/2008/05...ss-part-1.aspx

Those helped me a lot!!! Good luck!

terryl 2009-03-19 12:47pm

Thanks, guys. I will try again.


Terryl

Mitosis Glass 2009-03-19 1:43pm

Thanks for the tuts Margriet!

Good luck Terryl. I'm struggling with them too. I love the way they look so I'll just keep at it.

lunamoonshadow 2009-03-19 7:54pm

the JetAgeStudio tutorial is wonderful....she sends it out with her murrini!

RyanTheNumberImp 2009-03-19 8:37pm

It can depend on the type of murrini you are applying, for example, barincle murrini/ribbed cane generally looks better when smeared/deformed a bit (to bring the lines to the center) while fish/butterflies will just get messed up.
The three tutorials posted are intended for the first type of application where you want to stretch the murrini inwards.

Assuming you are trying to apply something you do not want to smear start by preheating it a touch and getting the bead warm enough for you to stick the murrini in where you want it. Don't let the murrini melt out of shape, it should still be in approximately its initial shape.

After this you just need to work it in slowly. I find that the best way is to give it quick bursts of heat from the flame and then lightly press the top of the murrini with a graphite paddle/brass tool of some form.

This has two uses, firstly it will cool the top of the murrini and prevent it from smearing or getting too hot, secondly it lets you push it in slightly and speeds up the process.

Depending on your base color you should be able to tell how you are doing and what causes it to smear. Just continue to heat, press, heat, press, heat, press lightly with some form of cold flat surface.

RyanTheNumberImp 2009-03-19 8:52pm

Just to expand on my previous post, here are some rather poor drawings.

This shows how applying ribbed murrini and fish/shape murrini differ. For the former you want it to melt into a cone shape so that you can see design on the sides after it melts in.
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2668/onej.jpg
The process for applying the two different types of murrini are different since in one smearing is good, while for the other smearing is bad.


And here is how I suggest doing it.
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2848/twot.jpg
Just keep repeating the last two steps until it is flush.
When you start it can be a pretty long and slow process but eventually you will get a feel for how fast you can go without smearing the murrini.

Margrieten 2009-03-20 4:55am

Thanks for showing!

papimom 2009-03-20 5:54am

When I am doing the final heating and pressing that Ryan is describing, I turn up my O2 to focus and cool the flame. I touch the glass that surrounds the murrini but not the murrini. A few circles of heat around that murrini and it sucks in.
Joan

terryl 2009-03-23 3:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by papimom (Post 2426177)
When I am doing the final heating and pressing that Ryan is describing, I turn up my O2 to focus and cool the flame. I touch the glass that surrounds the murrini but not the murrini. A few circles of heat around that murrini and it sucks in.
Joan



These tips seem to help. I think I have been focusing too much heat on the murrini itself. Heating the glass surrounding the murrini never occurred to me. I took some of my precious stash of murrini tonight and just started trying different ways of applying them on small practice bead. I am getting the best look out of leaving them slightly raised. Placing clear on top doesn't seem to work to well for me for some reason. I am getting crisper murrini by leaving the clear off. However, I am still having some smearing when I melt them completely flat. Also, some of the murrini I bought don't seem to have enough contrasts to the colors and some of them all to bleed into the same color of brown when I apply them. I hate to waste my little murrini I bought by repeatedly applying them in this manner but if I learn how to do this technique I will just buy some more. I think I would rather do this than spend alot of time making a base bead and decorating it and ruin it when I apply the murrini. If I want to poke the center to bring the lines all together, at what point should I do this.....how melted in should the murrini be when I do this step? Thanks so much to all who have responded.


Terryl

JetAge Studio 2009-03-24 10:20am

Thanks everyone who recommended my murrini tutorial for help! :wink:

Terryl, it sounds like you're getting some success from playing with some of the tips here. I too, don't usually apply a drop of clear on my murrini, just because that's usually not the look I'm after, but it certainly is a neat secondary effect you can get from these little guys. Keeping them raised is another! They generally will stay a bit crisper if they're raised, because you are keeping the heat away from them. Think of how dense black stringer 'creeps' when you apply a lot of heat to it. The same can happen to these elements. It's key to work cool, and to apply them as one of the last adornments you do for your beads. Smearing can also happen when the base glass gets to hot if the murrini is on it. I recently was playing around with a bead and applied some murrini, played too much and I ended up accidentally flattening the bead in one spot. As I tried to reshape the bead, the murrini ended up creeping to the heat, smearing it! So, too much heat either on, or in it's close vicinity will make it 'move'. This is why it's really best to have your final bead shape completed, then apply all the goodies so they don't shift on you.
As far as the 'contrast' in some murrini goes, a lot has to do with the way they were constructed, and what the maker intends the final murrini to look like. Sometimes I like to create super dramatic contrasty blends, while others are less strong. Each murrini maker brings their own artistic vision to the beadmakers who use them, they're all going to be unique in they're own way. The glass color characteristics themselves have a lot to do with it too. I can't speak for other murrini makers, but there are colors I personally avoid, and avoid certain color combinations because they may smear more readily than other colors, or just don't play nice with another color. I avoid using Ivory altogether in my blends as an example, for that reason. Perhaps you're even getting a color reaction between the base color and the murrini itself. This definitely is a possibility. If there is a reaction happening, you'll start to see a reaction line form between the base and the edge of the murrini. More heat will bring out that reaction, creating what I call the 'mud' effect :). Don't rule this possibility out thinking that it's just 'you' making it turn muddy :)
There are some murrini out there that will benefit from poking, to get to your last question. If you are using murrini with lots of layers as mine do, these guys are best left un-poked. Poking makes the center colors disappear thus losing the dimension and interest of these particular chips. If you're using less ornately layered murrini and want to take advantage of that starburst look, first start by applying the murrini to the bead base. Once it's stuck on, gently heat the exposed end of the murrini till it glows a light orange, then poke with a sharply tipped tool in the very center of the chip, you don't have to poke to deeply either. This makes the outside lines implode in after it's heated a little more to make the divit disappear. This will form a nice starburst with a crisp center that radiates the lines.
Hope this all helps, and good luck!!
Renee Wiggins



Quote:

Originally Posted by terryl (Post 2430190)
I am getting the best look out of leaving them slightly raised. Placing clear on top doesn't seem to work to well for me for some reason. I am getting crisper murrini by leaving the clear off. However, I am still having some smearing when I melt them completely flat. Also, some of the murrini I bought don't seem to have enough contrasts to the colors and some of them all to bleed into the same color of brown when I apply them. I hate to waste my little murrini I bought by repeatedly applying them in this manner but if I learn how to do this technique I will just buy some more. I think I would rather do this than spend alot of time making a base bead and decorating it and ruin it when I apply the murrini. If I want to poke the center to bring the lines all together, at what point should I do this.....how melted in should the murrini be when I do this step?


Terryl


terryl 2009-03-25 12:14am

They are getting better....thanks to all you guys for your help. I can definately see some improvement....no smearing. I am gonna have to buy more murrini though. I need some suggestions on which ones to buy for the most contrast. Any thoughts? I would have practiced more tonight, but I just ran out of propane....to lazy to drag myself out to the shed and get the spare tank.


Terryl

RyanTheNumberImp 2009-03-25 12:37am

You can always try making your own, just take the end of a rod and put some stripes down it and then pull.

For more complex murrini you can encase the rod first and then add stripes or just add more layers.

terryl 2009-03-25 1:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanTheNumberImp (Post 2432834)
You can always try making your own, just take the end of a rod and put some stripes down it and then pull.

For more complex murrini you can encase the rod first and then add stripes or just add more layers.

Too lazy......and I doubt I could do it as nice as some of the ones I have seen lately. I have tried and I can make em. I just have a hard time choosing colors with enough contrast.


Terryl

Elizabeth Beads 2009-03-25 10:30am

If you pull your own murini, you can leave it as cane, heat the spot on the bead where you want it, poke the cane into the hot spot, wait, and break or cut off as close to the bead surface as you can. A small dollop or clear glass over the murini will protect it as you melt it smooth. Another trick that I learned from Michael Barley is to have your murini on a warmer, melt the tip of a clear thin rod or thick stringer, warm the spot on the bead, pick up the murini with the hot glass, place/press it onto the bead and burn off the clear. Instant encasement.

MerryFool 2009-06-25 1:29pm

Wow, thanks so much to Margriet, Ryan and Renee for the helpful tips on using murrini! :love: I'm going to try and use some of this stuff more... and I have a glorious bit of butterfly cane from Ryan (that I'm afraid to try and nip into slices :( )

theglasszone 2009-06-25 9:34pm

Ryan, you are THE MAN!!! That is the cutest drawing ever...and that is exactly the technique I use! I have practiced and practiced...and now I can get the fish and butters and skullies and stuff to not smear at all!

I do a very, very light heating of the murrini before I do the marver press in...some times it takes 6 or more heatings to slowly, slowly push that little sucker in! But the patience on this step really pays off!

Good luck and hope you're having fun Terryl! We'd love to see pictures of your beads!

De in CA

erwin.zeez 2010-03-25 4:55am

thanks for solving this problem
i have the same question and was trying to get answer
thankss

Carolyn M 2010-03-25 5:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by terryl (Post 2432828)
They are getting better....thanks to all you guys for your help. I can definately see some improvement....no smearing. I am gonna have to buy more murrini though. I need some suggestions on which ones to buy for the most contrast. Any thoughts? I would have practiced more tonight, but I just ran out of propane....to lazy to drag myself out to the shed and get the spare tank.


Terryl

I buy 99% of my murrini from Renee (Jetage), Lori and Kim, John Rizzi and fish from De. They all make amazing murrini.

Carolyn M 2010-03-25 5:51am

Here are some different effects using murrini

If you plunge then cap starburst type murrini you get an awesome sea anemone look. Then place fish murrini over the top for great realism. Murrini by John Rizzi and De



The following all have the murrini melted flat using the melt, pat, melt, pat method. Murrini by John Rizzi, Renee, and Lori and Kim







The last set uses all the freebie murrini sent by generous murrini makers. You can see how different murrini react in a different way. Some stay crisp while others blur more.

Sorry to be such an image hog, but I just love using murrini!

GlassMigrations 2010-03-25 8:46am

Carolyn, Your murrini beads are gorgeous!!!!

GlassMigrations 2010-03-25 9:04am

See what you did....... I had to go order some murrini from Jet Age Studio and Lori&Kim.(lol) Can't wait to get my murrini in the mail!!! Thanks for the inspiration.......

BeadBlossoms 2010-03-25 10:11am

I have also learned that if you "pat" the bead with brass, rather than graphite, it will spread less. Seems to work for me.

GlassMigrations 2010-03-25 10:29am

Thought I'd share a quick tip regarding slicing murrini. I think it was mentioned above that the thinner the wafer of murrini, the less it will spread. To practice cutting thin wafers I used a regular rod of glass, versus practicing on the murrini. This way you don't mess up alot of your murrini trying to learn how to cut thinner. I now have the slicing part down to an art.

Carolyn M 2010-03-25 10:29am

Yes, I use my brass stumpshaper for patting!

Carolyn M 2010-03-25 10:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassMigrations (Post 2951887)
See what you did....... I had to go order some murrini from Jet Age Studio and Lori&Kim.(lol) Can't wait to get my murrini in the mail!!! Thanks for the inspiration.......

You won't be sorry, they make gorgeous murrini

theglasszone 2010-04-03 11:54am

BUMP! This great thread - with all it's helpful tips and links (SPECIAL THANKS to all contributors!) - deserves to stay on top! :lol:

De

glassbead 2010-10-06 5:44am

Oh, I'm so glad this is here. Just got my first murrini yesterday, and I'm excited -and a little scared- to try 'em!

rainygrrl 2010-10-06 7:51am

Glassbead, I know what you mean! You can cut some chips of plain rods or make some simple thick encased stringer to practice with.


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