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  #1  
Old 2010-03-02, 3:29pm
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Default Foot pedal questions

With the new GTT Scorpion about to be in wide usage and talk of how nice a foot pedal is to use with a 4 stud torch I have have lots of questions. I have a feeling I am not the only one. What I'm thinking I want to do is run the outer flame on my hurricane and the inner on a 5lpm concentrator. I have never seen a foot pedal in use so I'm pretty fuzzy about the whole dynamic. Now that said, I have used a foot pedal to work a flex shaft tool so I'm thinking it would be similar.

So here is the chance for all of you tech guys to explain the ins and outs of foot pedals to us uneducated masses.
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Old 2010-03-03, 8:41am
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Foot pedals is just a series of valve connected to a believe it or not a " foot pedal" similar to one for sewing machine or rotary tool or accelerator pedal in a car..... And one point (we will call low) it just runs the inner fire (small flame) of a "monster" torch because the valves (either mechanical or electrical) only allow fuel/oxygen to inner fire, if you want to activate the the "outer portion" of torch, you press down on foot pedant which cause the valves that control oxygen/fuel to open and supply the "outer ring" (large fire) once you do not have need for extra heat you rock back (release pressure) on foot pedal and it closes the valves for the outer ring and the outer flame goes out....

Visualize this, little (or no) pressure on pedal smaller flame (much like slow rotary tool) and you increase pressure of foot pedal bigger flame (faster rotation of rotatory tool)...

Concept is simple, how ever the plumbing is a little more complex but not so difficult the average lampworker can't hook one up ....

Dale
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Old 2010-03-03, 2:27pm
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Most I have seen and the one I have are simple on/off switches for the gas and oxygen to the outer flame. They usually have one set of hoses going into them and two sets coming out. One set for the inner and one for the outer flame connections.

You set the outer flame at the desired settings then push the foot pedel once to cut the oxygen and gas off. You now have your inner fire to do the majority of your work. When you need to the outer flame to melt a gather or some other large task, push the peddle once again and the line is open and the gas and oxygen flow. The outer flame is ignited by the inner flame and bursts into it's preset level. Click the pedel down again to cut it back off.

I have seen a couple of continious variation pedels that work sort of like a gas pedel in a car, but I don't think they are real common.
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Old 2010-03-03, 3:06pm
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Also, someone told me that you have to be sure if you are using a concentrator for the outer ring that your particular concentrator flow can be blocked without causing the unit's alarm to sound. Not sure which one they said was appropriate, but hopefully someone will chime in.
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Old 2010-03-03, 8:38pm
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Let me know if I understand - The hose/s from the concentrator/s go to the foot petal then hoses go to the torch? So is the O2 running from the concentrator through the petal to the torch? That doesn't effect the pressure? Can you run 2 concentrators through a foot petal? One for the inner flame and one for the outter flame?

Beth has a valid point too. If the one is shut off will that hurt the concentraor? I suppose even if you don't have a petal if you turn off the outter flame that would stop the flow from that concentrator. Is that OK? The more I learn the more questions I have - which is exactly why I started this thread. Thanks guys!
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Old 2010-03-03, 10:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassyEyedGirl View Post
Also, someone told me that you have to be sure if you are using a concentrator for the outer ring that your particular concentrator flow can be blocked without causing the unit's alarm to sound. Not sure which one they said was appropriate, but hopefully someone will chime in.
I was wondering about this myself I thought that when you are not using the outer flame it would make a alarm if my thinking is right wouldn't you want a 2 stud one if you are running concentrators and want a foot pedal or have it go into a tank?
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Old 2010-03-04, 12:12am
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I would not want to try to use a foot pedel with a concentrator. Especially the ones that could power an outer flame would be way too expensive to risk damaging.
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  #8  
Old 2010-03-04, 2:34am
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This is a nice tutorial and parts list for building your own foot pedal.

http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30460
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  #9  
Old 2010-03-04, 3:44am
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There are foot pedals with what are called a bypass valve for the outer flame. This allows a little bit of O2to always be put to the outer flame (no propane). If you were going to use the outer flame on a concentrator I would think you would want to use a bypass one. You can adjust how much O2 is always released to the outer flame. (Keep in mind that this O2 will effect the oxidizing/reducing nature of the inner flame)... I use a foot pedal and it's like having a third hand. Good luck.
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  #10  
Old 2010-03-04, 12:56pm
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The Regalia can be used with a foot pedal for the outerfire. You can turn off the flame with the machine still running and it does not alarm and does not hurt the machine.
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Old 2010-03-04, 3:22pm
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Also, you can get a pressure relief valve and install it on your O2 hose before your torch but after your concentrator. You need to be able to set it to the psi that's the upper limit of what your concentrator can handle. That way if you have the O2 off on your torch, it will vent into the room and not damage your concentrator.
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  #12  
Old 2010-03-04, 3:38pm
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There might be a better way if your concentrator must have a constant flow. Add another solenoid valve to the outer flame oxy line and wire it so it opens the oxy side of the outer flame to atmosphere when the outer flame is desired to be off then closes when you want the outer flame on.

I use a couple of 5lpm Aireseps on the inner flame of my Mirage and tanked O2 on the outer flame. Never had a problem with either.
As shown in the link thread a foot petal is very easy to make.

PJ

PS - thanks Kbinkster for the torch info last week.

Last edited by cheng076; 2010-03-04 at 3:42pm.
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  #13  
Old 2010-03-04, 5:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheng076 View Post
There might be a better way if your concentrator must have a constant flow. Add another solenoid valve to the outer flame oxy line and wire it so it opens the oxy side of the outer flame to atmosphere when the outer flame is desired to be off then closes when you want the outer flame on.
I was also thinking of something similar to that idea....

Dale
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Old 2010-03-04, 5:23pm
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You just hook the propane but not the oxygen up to the foot pedal. Theres no flame in the outer fire without the propane. The oxygen just flows out the outerfire. Open the innerfire all the way and turn the outer fire down until enough oxygen is forced through the innerfire.
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  #15  
Old 2010-03-04, 6:11pm
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kbinkster, the Regalia is the one I was trying to think of that doesn't get cranky when you stop the flow, thank you!

I plan on running the inner fire on a concentrator, and the outer flame on tanked oxy. But I would not want to keep the 02 flowing while I was not using the outer flame. Can both the Propane and 02 be hooked to the foot pedal in that case?
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  #16  
Old 2010-03-04, 6:22pm
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Foot pedals are normally set so that the oxygen and propane lines carrying gas destined for the outerfire are run to the pedal and then there are oxygen and propane lines going from out of the pedal and into the torch (specifically, into the propane and oxygen inlets for the outerfire). The foot pedal will shut off both the oxygen and the propane, unless you configure it differently.
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Old 2010-03-05, 9:06am
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The more I'm learning the less I want a foot pedal.
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  #18  
Old 2010-03-05, 10:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playswithfire104 View Post
The more I'm learning the less I want a foot pedal.
Hey these are not Toyota's.....

Dale
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Old 2010-03-06, 6:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playswithfire104 View Post
The more I'm learning the less I want a foot pedal.
Once you go pedel, you'll never go back!

It is so nice to be able to hit the switch and instantly have the outerfire burst on to heat large globs of glass. I personally would do concentrators on the inner fire and a tank on the outerfire. With the Scorpion, you could easily get by with a cheap 5LPM concentrator on the cricket centerfire that would do 80% - 90% of most beadmakers work. This would mean the tanked oxygen would last a fairly long time especially if the claims of improved oxy efficiency on the otherfire are also true.

The more I think about it this might be the best configuration for me. I am not sure I could give up my Mirage now that I have used it a while. If nothing else, it is fun just to rage it every once in a while when I am home and can play. I really need to find someone that has a Scorpion and play with it a bit. I may be able to get rid of some of the other torches and put this on my the other planned boro bench.
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  #20  
Old 2013-06-19, 7:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyndaJ View Post
Also, you can get a pressure relief valve and install it on your O2 hose before your torch but after your concentrator. You need to be able to set it to the psi that's the upper limit of what your concentrator can handle. That way if you have the O2 off on your torch, it will vent into the room and not damage your concentrator.
I am having trouble figuring out which pressure relief valve I need for my concentrator and foot pedal. Can someone who has done this direct me to a specific one that has worked for them? It's a lot to ask, but I am lost. Thank you.
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Old 2013-06-20, 2:50pm
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Also run a 4 stud Scorpion using three 5 LPM concentrators with NG. So far have not found the need for a foot pedal. The torch is adjusted with oxygen always on to the outer ring which also helps form the inner flame. Thus when more heat is needed only the fuel valve has to be opened.
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  #22  
Old 2013-06-20, 4:12pm
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I run mine on 2 5 lpm machines and usually leave the outer oxy on also. The cricket is great for detail and when I am ready for more heat I usually want a wider flame anyways so I just turn on the outer then.
Chuck
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  #23  
Old 2013-06-20, 5:51pm
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You don't need a foot pedal until you have one and realize how great it is. Then you never want to be without it.
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  #24  
Old 2013-06-20, 7:49pm
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Building one will be good for me. It'll put hair on my chest (my Dad always said that to me when I was a little girl and he thought something would be a good character building/learning experience.) Yes, his humor often wanders into the absurd. Anyway, most days I feel like I lack dexterity, and I need all the help I can get.
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Old 2013-06-26, 4:29am
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I built my own foot pedal to run on my Scorpion with a 5M on the inner fire and a 20M on the outer fire I bought all the parts from ebay for less than $50.00 the valve for the outer fire exhausts to air when not turned on so that the concentrator does not back pressure.
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Old 2013-06-26, 4:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Parkinson View Post
I built my own foot pedal to run on my Scorpion with a 5M on the inner fire and a 20M on the outer fire I bought all the parts from ebay for less than $50.00 the valve for the outer fire exhausts to air when not turned on so that the concentrator does not back pressure.
That's awesome! Can you post a little how-to?
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Old 2013-06-26, 9:42am
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Solenoids can be bought that exhaust to atmosphere when in the 'off' condition.
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Old 2013-06-27, 8:06pm
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Solenoids can be bought that exhaust to atmosphere when in the 'off' condition.
Is there a part number or a name to reference? The people in the shops aren't always that knowledgeable. Especially when I'm almost as clueless, if not more, as they are.
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  #29  
Old 2013-07-01, 8:45pm
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Three way, normally open.

Sorry so late replying...been busy.

PJ
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