Map pro troubles?

allicat · #1 2012-06-23, 2:56pm

Hi folks:

I torch with a Hothead, and use Mappro canisters. I generally buy 3 at a time, and until 2 weeks ago never had a problem. Both last week and this, one canister (I'm quite sure) is filled with another gas. The flame is different, and it's much dirtier (my whites are all soot filled). I suspect it has propane and not propelyne (sp?) in it. I returned last weeks tank, and while I'm embarrassed to do it again, I'll be returning this one.

Is it me? Has anyone else come up against this issue?

And an oxy/fuel or even a Map gas tank isn't an option for me ATM; long story - I work in my tiny kitchen, we rent, no space for decent size tanks and if my landlord saw them outside she'd freak, etc etc.

Alli

*I attached a quick n dirty pic of beads made with CIM's Peace. The first one with the dirty lines was made on the wonky tank, the clean 2 little ones were made on the tank I put on after the wonky one. Oh, and all beads were made at the beginning of both tanks. The beads made with CIM's marshmallow were worse, but don't want to be photographed apparently.

flaming_fools · #2 2012-06-23, 9:13pm

I found this this stuff (propylene sp?) fouled up my hothead after awhile, and beads started getting real sooty, and lot of reduction in colors that easily reduced (greens and many blues). Was the prime reason I switched to a minor torch.

istandalone24/7 · #3 2012-06-24, 5:05am

i don't think they're filled with the wrong gas (that would be a huge boner on the mfg's part) but most likey they put too much of that mercrapten (the odor gas) stuff in it....which makes for a dirty flame or so i hear.

Dale M. · #4 2012-06-24, 6:25am

Mercaptan is a highly flammable gas and is put in at a volume at something like 1 pound to 10,000 gallons (and propane weigh in at 4.25 pounds per gallon, that would be something 1 pound to 40,000 pounds of propane) and has never been proven to be a problem where it can contaminate a flame... Most of what you hears about Mercaptan is old wives tales, guesses and false rumors....

http://www.arkema-inc.com/literature/pdf/383.pdf

Dale

steiconi · #5 2012-06-24, 1:29pm

do you let your hose drain vertically every night?
You could try cleaning your torch, too. Search here or WetCanvas for good instructions (I think posted by Dale ages ago)
Lee

allicat · #6 2012-06-24, 7:28pm

No hoses to drain; I work with the torch connected directly to the canister (darn, that would have been easy to fix too!).

I have a current Hothead, not one of the old ones; if I am correct it isn't possible to take them apart to clean. Thing is, it's very new; maybe 3 months old? My previous one I got used, and it never did this; just started to leak (hence the new one). Plus, why would the one tank muck up the beads, but not the following tank if the problem was the torch?

I still think the issue is with the tanks, especially since I have changed tanks and the other tanks are "normal", but I'll be damned if I can figure out what is causing it, other than a different fuel.

essiemessy · #7 2012-06-24, 10:56pm

The advice I got from Sarah (the HH people) was to actually use a MAPP can to clean the torch - but that's only relevant to me because I was using propane, which is filthy!
I certainly get such sooty beads from my MAPP. Was always a lovely, lovely change

Dale M. · #8 2012-06-25, 7:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by allicat

No hoses to drain; I work with the torch connected directly to the canister (darn, that would have been easy to fix too!).

I have a current Hothead, not one of the old ones; if I am correct it isn't possible to take them apart to clean. Thing is, it's very new; maybe 3 months old? My previous one I got used, and it never did this; just started to leak (hence the new one). Plus, why would the one tank muck up the beads, but not the following tank if the problem was the torch?

I still think the issue is with the tanks, especially since I have changed tanks and the other tanks are "normal", but I'll be damned if I can figure out what is causing it, other than a different fuel.

Unconsciously moving glass out of sweet spot and closer to torch head where incomplete combustion is present, maybe...

Dale

allicat · #9 2012-06-25, 6:18pm

Welp, I'm a dork.

It seems the issue is NOT the MapPro canisters. It's the torch. I did a quick bead this morning to try something, and noticed the flame was changing. Turned it off and went to dip some mandrels. When I lit the torch again, the flame was completely fuel; just a wooshy flame with no candle at all. Plus, I was out of town today and picked up a MapPro canister from a different store. Set it up and lo and behold, the same issue occurred with the flame. My guess is my timing was off when switching canisters initially. I just had a hard time believing it could be the torch as it's only 2 months old. Oh well, back to the store it goes.

And on that note, am I correct in thinking the current HotHead torches cannot be disassembled, to be cleaned or to replace the orifice?

Alli

Dale M. · #10 2012-06-26, 7:16am

Torch can be disassembled and cleaned, new "torch" does not have a replaceable orifice as the old torch did but it still can be soaked in a non-oily solvent, cob webs and spider nests in ports can be removed....

Soak in non-oily solvents as lacquer thinner or alcohol or acetone and then dry well....

Dale

allicat · #11 2012-06-26, 6:20pm

Ick. Spider nests. Hopefully that isn't the issue, although...we do have a lot of spiders here...

Seriously tho! How does one take a Hothead apart? I checked online, and while I understand all the instructions, I canNOT get one to come apart. I tried with my initial HH when it went wonky, and again with this one, and it's like they are cemented together. Is there a trick to it that I'm missing? I actually have a can of acetone because I used to oil paint, but I assume the torch needs to be apart for it to work.

Btw, I realize I have hijacked my own thread; hope no one minds!

Role · #12 2012-06-26, 7:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by allicat

Ick. Spider nests. Hopefully that isn't the issue, although...we do have a lot of spiders here...

Seriously tho! How does one take a Hothead apart? I checked online, and while I understand all the instructions, I canNOT get one to come apart. I tried with my initial HH when it went wonky, and again with this one, and it's like they are cemented together. Is there a trick to it that I'm missing? I actually have a can of acetone because I used to oil paint, but I assume the torch needs to be apart for it to work.

Btw, I realize I have hijacked my own thread; hope no one minds!

allicat · #13 2012-06-26, 7:50pm

Thanx Role! I can actually get the head (?) off after fighting with it with some pliers and a wrench, but the piece in between, which I assume is the orifice, is wedged in tightly on the head side and I cannot get it out. Is it supposed to be stuck in like that? Or is it supposed to just slide out as it appears to have in your picture?

Role · #14 2012-06-26, 8:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by allicat

Thanx Role! I can actually get the head (?) off after fighting with it with some pliers and a wrench, but the piece in between, which I assume is the orifice, is wedged in tightly on the head side and I cannot get it out. Is it supposed to be stuck in like that? Or is it supposed to just slide out as it appears to have in your picture?

It is being held in place by the rubber gasket.

Take a small wood dowel and push it out from the flame side, use
a gentle force not too heavy handed.

Make sure you use something softer than brass (plastic or wood)
do not use steel it is harder than the brass and can damage it.

Do not put the rubber gasket into any solvents as they will damage it.

Good luck.

ETA, clarification: the orifice needs to be cleaned too so remove the
rubber gasket and then clean it in your solvent of choice.

Make sure all solvents are completely evaporated before
reassembling the torch.

jaci · #15 2012-06-27, 5:45am

90% rubbing alcohol always worked well for me. I did not take the torch apart where role did (I have never taken it apart there in 15 yrs). I just unscrewed the top part not pictured apart in his picture. Always worked just fine. And I knew the alcohol would always dry better than thinner. I scrubbed the top ports out with a tooth brush or steel bruch or steel wool scrubbie if if had a layer of soot on the ports. I have had the same HH for 15 years. Still works like a champ! In the future, make sure your torch is turned up higher. This will keep
More soot from forming down there. I never had to clean my torch more than twice a year. And I torched almost every day for at least a few hours.

allicat · #16 2012-06-27, 5:02pm

Thanx Jaci! And thanx to everyone else

I am waiting on a call from Sarah at Hothead. It definitely is the torch IMHO; I put my old Hothead on the canister for a few seconds and the flame is completely normal (I got the old one used, and it started to leak after a year or so; tis why I bought the new one). Then I put the new one on to compare.

If anyone is interested, I took a couple of brief videos to show the difference to Sarah; you can see them here:

The old Hothead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfNz4OOVcr0
The newer Hothead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMcTZSxU7DM

And again, thanx. You guys rock!

Alli

essiemessy · #17 2012-06-27, 5:13pm

Aha!!! Same issue I was having - turned out I had the head turned a half-turn back. But Sarah was extremely helpful via email (I'm OS). She took a lot of time to explain things.
Good luck

jaci · #18 2012-06-27, 7:28pm

Yea. You are not sucking air like you should through the ports, or somewhere. That's basically just a reduction flame. That's what your old Hh will basically do if you cover the air holes with foil. (helpful for all that shiny pretty reduction!)

allicat · #19 2012-06-27, 9:00pm

Exactly Jaci! it's why I panned down briefly in the newer torch video; to show nothing was blocking the air holes. At least nothing overt.

And I decided to twist the head a half turn each way in case that was the issue, after reading your post Di; I was hoping it would work even if it made me look stupid after all this fuss I'm making. *sigh* no such luck; makes no difference. So I continue to wait (impatiently).

allicat · #20 2012-06-28, 4:30pm

Got an email from Sarah at Hothead today. She saw the video, and says a phone call to trouble shoot is not necessary. It's obviously defective - its definitely the orifice, and she's sending me shipping stuff so I can send it back at her expense.

So ends my saga

Thanx to everyone who stopped in with advice and suggestions; it was and is well appreciated!
Alli

jaci · #21 2012-06-29, 7:59am

The top of the torch should unscrew as well to see the ports inside, not just the air holes outside. There is a disc sort of like a bobbin that has holes. I could not find a good picture, just this view of looking down the torch. This is the easiest part to clean. Just unscrew it at the top and check that the ports are clear, and free of soot. then just brush away any gunk, or poke off any residue, or soak top with 90% alcohol. This is the part that I usually had to clean. Not so much the rest.

Just the top 2 inches unscrew to reveal the ports.

allicat · #22 2012-06-30, 10:29am

I had no idea that bit comes apart as well! I'm definitely bookmarking this post for future reference; this info will come in handy in the future. Thanx Jaci!

Sadly, according to Sarah that isn't my issue. She said about 1 in 4,000 Hotheads have a failure with the bit of sapphire used in the orifice, generally fairly early on in their life; unfortunately it takes some time for this to occur, and doesn't usually happen when they are testing them before sending them out. And that is exactly what happened with mine. Now why is it I can't win the MegaMillions lottery instead?!