What kind of glass is considered 'Murano glass'?

[wfdebicki]

I have recently been inundated by questions from customers about whether I use Murano glass. Which types of glass would be considered Murano glass in your opinion? There seems to suddenly be a great deal of public interest in what my customers term 'the real thing'. I want to be able to answer them about their concerns in a responsible way. Can anyone share any knowledge or opinions about how I should answer these questions wrt what types of glass are truly Murano glass vs. glass originating elsewhere and also the notion of 'the real thing'.
Thank you!

[GlassGalore]

I believe it's just Effetre / Moretti glass that's made on the island of Murano. But that certainly negates the use of the other quality Italian-made glass from Vetrofond, or any of the other top notch glass manufacturers.

I think it's a matter of consumers being misled / uneducated by all the cheapo import beads crying that they're "authentic Murano glass", as if that somehow makes up for the fact that the bead was mass-produced in a sweatshop somewhere and not properly annealed or cleaned.

I would prefer to 're-educate' consumers that the type of glass used does NOT automatically make a bead a certain 'quality', than to limit my palette to just Effetre colors and call them 'Murano' beads, IMHO.

[Dreamsincolor]

I think that you are spot on Lisa. The whole reason Murano glass has it's reputation is because for centuries it had the monopoly on quality. If you look up the history of the glass workers from there some of them migrated from the island taking their knowledge with them as far away as the Netherlands and England. But the origin of the glass is useless if the process of making beads and other objects is just slap dash manufacturing.

[merigypsy]

I was in Costco (like BJ,s and Sams) they had a woman with a jewelry table selling some brand of jewelry with a lot of glass beads. There were a lot of signs that said Murano. I could tell they were made in China- or at least I think. Just because they had a gold foil in them doesn't mean they are made there. They also had a book on display that was about Murano and glass. I could be wrong but I think they are exploiting the idea of artists from murano and the glass made there.

[tammydownunder]

You haven't heard of Murano China? Even the Italians have to deal with the cheap imports. It is so frustrating to see the horrid quality of their beads and have to defend our beads and prices we charge for them. My solution is to never make a bead that I've seen mass produced.

[Dreamsincolor]

Picture one of the malls at Christmas time and a very brassy looking lady (?) has a kiosk full of 4 designs done in 80 color combos under adverts saying GENUINE Murano Glass jewelry! I pick up one piece, look it over and start my rant about CHEAP CHINESE Knockoffs and watch as a half dozen browsing "customers" slip out the side door. Luckily my DH is amused rather than embarrassed by the whole incident. I finished my tirade with "Aren't you ashamed cheating these people knowing that when the stuff breaks in a short while you will be long gone?" Hey, it's cheaper than therapy...

Andrea

[wfdebicki]

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you all for weighing in on this. It is really creating a problem for me, and I am sure it must be for others too. I saw an add for a quality Murano glass piece the other day on TV and the piece had REALLY obvious chill marks. Further, there were beads advertised as "sterling filled" and they really looked to me like they were standard beads made with silver leaf or foil. I can't wrap my head around how the price could be so low even if the piece was fine silver leaf or foil let alone "filled with sterling". (or is my understanding of what the term 'filled with sterling silver' means inaccurate?) I couldn't figure out how to even purchase the supplies for the finished price of some of the pieces yet they were described as all handmade Murano glass. My customers don't understand why my prices are so much higher. It would be awesome to be able to share the opinions of other lampworkers with these customers. Bear in mind that my concerns are not based on any actual knowledge of the work being sold, just my attempt to resolve a huge price difference and make sense of the advertising claims within the framework of my observations of the televised images.

[Damselfly]

If you're selling in person, I know some people had success purchasing one cheap bead and showing it next to one your quality beads so people can see the difference.

I think educating customers is an integral part of the beadmaking business these days, because a lot of customers don't know the difference until we explain it.

[houptdavid]

Lisa is spot on.

Murano is a "brand"
Glass made venetian glassworkers on the island of Murano. Anything else isn't!
Oh you can say you use Murano Glass (effetre) or Venetian glass (Vetrofond)
But it boils down to what people perceive quality to be,

Jello is flavored gelatin
Royal is flavored gelatin
Royal is not Jello
All flavored gelatin is not Jello, but most people refer to flavored gelatin as Jello.

[Kevan]

It seems that the Chinese have hijacked the brand "Murano Glass" to mean blown beads lined with silver.

It used to be that Murano meant made in Murano. The beads and the glass. People don't know this. Those bracelet companies advertise their Chinese beads as "Murano" and people think that since they are overpaying for some glass bead from China with a fancy name that it must mean they are the "really good glass beads". They aren't. It means nothing now.

[wfdebicki]

All really good points/descriptions and ideas. Thank you!

[Margrieten]

What I have learned: There were the brothers Moretti. They split up with also the glass recepts and each of them has their own glass: Effetre and Vetrofond.

But I will check it is summer I will go to Venice!!!!

[ben david]

Uhhh - ever notice all the Italian words we're using? Millefiore, etc.
We are also "ripping off" old-world techniques.

Let's try it this way:
In the glass world, "Murano" at this point refers to a set of traditional techniques, including:
- thinly-blown glass vessels
- Millefiori, Murrini, and Latticino techniques
- Other traditional bubble/twist patterns

These techniques are widely used in American art glass - of which beads is just a sub-market.

In addition, the craftsmen of Murano have gone beyond these techniques to maintain a modern image for their product. So there is "made in Murano" glass that does not look like "Murano style" glass.

Do most laypeople still think "Murano" means "made in Italy"?
I don't know.

But that's not how the word is used anymore in the world of glass art.
American glass artists outside the bead world regularly talk about "using the traditional techniques of Murano and other glass centers" as a way to explain/add luster to their work.

You may want to describe your beads as "using Murano techniques". But it's a bit sticky to paint others as "impostors" if that's how you describe your own work...

It also is a great idea to have a cheapo bead - preferably cracked! - for comparison with your stuff.

You can then say "Most beads advertised as Murano simply use traditional techniques, they're not really from Italy. I make mine here, and these cheap ones are made in China.... The charm of those techniques is the clear colors and shapes, and attention to detail. See - Here's my bead, and here are the cheap imitations - which can actually shatter as you wear them..."

Etc.

[wfdebicki]

Margriet: OOOOHHHH!! I am with you! I say we all go to Venice to get the scoop first hand! I wish! Please tell us all about it when you get back?
Ben David: Well said and great advice! I do get the impression from the people who are asking me that they are not at all knowledgeable about glass beads. They are simply buying into a very effective marketing campaign that tells them if it is called Murano glass it is the 'real thing' even though they have no idea what that is. They do ask me if my glass is from Italy.

[houptdavid]

Originally Posted by margriet@stainedglass.nl

What I have learned: There were the brothers Moretti. They split up with also the glass recepts and each of them has their own glass: Effetre and Vetrofond.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=16

[AlaskaBarb]

I describe my work as being made in the Italian tradition, although I live in Alaska, because I was trained on the island of Murano in off-mandrel sculpture. I would never use the term 'Murano' glass for what I do, because it means ( to me ) to be made on the island.

Chinese/Indian imports will probably be the death of Muranese glassmaking in the not-so-distant future, if vendors do not care what they are selling, as the imported quality level is improving day by day.

By the way, most glassmakers in Murano are experts who have been making glass products all their lives. However, I have seen 'chill' marks on Muranese beads, and many that were not annealed except in the flame. Good and bad quality exists side by side everywhere, IMHO.

Originally Posted by ben david

Uhhh - ever notice all the Italian words we're using? Millefiore, etc.
We are also "ripping off" old-world techniques.

Let's try it this way:
In the glass world, "Murano" at this point refers to a set of traditional techniques, including:
- thinly-blown glass vessels
- Millefiori, Murrini, and Latticino techniques
- Other traditional bubble/twist patterns

These techniques are widely used in American art glass - of which beads is just a sub-market.

In addition, the craftsmen of Murano have gone beyond these techniques to maintain a modern image for their product. So there is "made in Murano" glass that does not look like "Murano style" glass.

Do most laypeople still think "Murano" means "made in Italy"?
I don't know.

But that's not how the word is used anymore in the world of glass art.
American glass artists outside the bead world regularly talk about "using the traditional techniques of Murano and other glass centers" as a way to explain/add luster to their work.

You may want to describe your beads as "using Murano techniques". But it's a bit sticky to paint others as "impostors" if that's how you describe your own work...

It also is a great idea to have a cheapo bead - preferably cracked! - for comparison with your stuff.

You can then say "Most beads advertised as Murano simply use traditional techniques, they're not really from Italy. I make mine here, and these cheap ones are made in China.... The charm of those techniques is the clear colors and shapes, and attention to detail. See - Here's my bead, and here are the cheap imitations - which can actually shatter as you wear them..."

Etc.

[Kevan]

Originally Posted by margriet@stainedglass.nl

What I have learned: There were the brothers Moretti. They split up with also the glass recepts and each of them has their own glass: Effetre and Vetrofond.

But I will check it is summer I will go to Venice!!!!

Oh. Like the Mondavi brothers in Napa? Maybe it's an Italian thing.

[wendbill]

Originally Posted by tammydownunder

You haven't heard of Murano China? Even the Italians have to deal with the cheap imports. It is so frustrating to see the horrid quality of their beads and have to defend our beads and prices we charge for them. My solution is to never make a bead that I've seen mass produced.

That has to be getting more difficult as the years wear on.

The Chinese are getting better and better - even their colour combining is finally improving.

[patienthand]

I think part of the Murano craze is how the pandora type beads are advertised

[PurpleCatJewels]

GAH! Pandora beads are "Murano Glass" made in a huge production facility/factory in Thailand. Video on the Pandora website.

[DesertDreamer]

Just a note to be clear...the Vetrofond factory is also on Murano, not just the Effetre factory. It's kinda cool to bring up Google maps and look around the island in satellite view.

[STRAVAGANTE JEWELRY]

As you know, Murano glass beads are Italian works of art with a deep historical importance in the world of glassmaking art.
Just recently I created a thorough and updated version on this topic:
http://www.stravagante-jewelry.com/m...s-history.html

[menty666]

Originally Posted by ben david

Uhhh - ever notice all the Italian words we're using? Millefiore, etc.
We are also "ripping off" old-world techniques.

Let's try it this way:
In the glass world, "Murano" at this point refers to a set of traditional techniques, including:
- thinly-blown glass vessels
- Millefiori, Murrini, and Latticino techniques
- Other traditional bubble/twist patterns

Umm...noo, Murano is an actual place, much the same way the French made it illegal to call anything champagne that doesn't actually come from the Champagne region of France. Millefiori, Murrine, and Latticino are simply Italian words and it's perfectly reasonable to use them in describing the applicable techniques.

Saying I make Muranse beads would be a bald faced lie. I can say I make Murano style beads, if I did, but that's about the extent of it.

Originally Posted by ben david

Do most laypeople still think "Murano" means "made in Italy"?
I don't know.

Yeah, they do actually. The same ones that it matters to are the same ones that wander up to me at shows and say, "Have you ever heard of Murano glass? I was watching this show on PBS the other night and they were showing the Italians in Murano make these beautiful.."

They then usually ask me if I've ever heard of some mangled version of Dale Chihuly's name.

Frankly the Italians I've talked to are pissed about the situation too because it's taking food out of their mouths. Even some of the less scrupulous artists in Murano have given up and started selling Asian made imports to tourists.

Originally Posted by STRAVAGANTE JEWELRY

As you know, Murano glass beads are Italian works of art with a deep historical importance in the world of glassmaking art.
Just recently I created a thorough and updated version on this topic:
http://www.stravagante-jewelry.com/m...s-history.html

Not all of them are works of art, they do some production style beads too. I saw a video a while back of someone making some (IMO) not so wonderful beads with some gold foil on them.

Originally Posted by PurpleCatJewels

GAH! Pandora beads are "Murano Glass" made in a huge production facility/factory in Thailand. Video on the Pandora website.

I saw that too, complete BS.

[mikefrantz]

First thing is that the Vetrofond factory is not on the island of Murano, therefore glass from that factory can not be called Murano Glass. Vetrofond is on the mainland, but they do/did have a small outlet on the island of Murano. Vetrofond, last time I checked had sold some of their glass rod making production equipment to a different company that did not have much success.

In regards to the story of brothers splitting up and forming Vetrofond. While the owners last name is Moretti, there is no connection between the two companies.

In the early 1990's the general manager of Effetre left his job and went to Vetrofond and with his knowledge started producing glass rods.

The story how I got involved with Vetrofond is a wild story for another post.

Mike

There are stores in Venice that have on their windows "Murano Glass Beads". This is a correct message, the glass rods used in the production is from Murano, but usually made in China and are not Murano Beads. When you see a little sticker that has the little Murano emblem, that means the glass items were made in Murano. If they are made on the mainland, they are not considered Murano glass.

Mike

[glassmax]

It´s like Menty said.

Originally the term "murano glass" ment glasses that have been made in Murano.
There is lampworked glass as well as furnace worked glass.
So it does not really say anything special about quality,style or kind of material that´s used.
They made the whole section from small animal figurines up to absolutely high-quality goblets,vases,candeliers etc.
Many times the term "murano glass" is (mis)used to make it interesting to sell (cheap or not) stuff . Many people even do call any kind of coloured glass "murano glass".
But is have been the Italians themselfes whom ruined the reputation of murano by selling Chinese crap to the tourists.There are not many Chinese people in Murano sellin glass!Recently they sell that shit under the term "made from murano glass".They send the raw glass rods to China where the figurines and other stuff is made.
Actually there´s a flashback now.People found out and many of the old shops had to close.Unfortunately many of the old,honest good ones.
I have to deal with this almost every day as I am working in a historical glass factory and I just hate it when people come to tell me how cheap they bought glass "art" in Murano.
thanks for listening.
glassmax

[STRAVAGANTE JEWELRY]

To define the term of "Murano glass" is not correct to say that only the companies or manufacturers that have their headquarters on the island of Murano can be defined as producers of Murano glass, in fact Lino Tagliapietra is working mainly in the USA and yet his works are defined Murano glass. In addition, many artists from the island of Murano have moved around Venice or in other Italian places, but they are also defined glassmakers of Murano.

[menty666]

By that screwed up logic I should be able to pick some aspect of my Euromutt background and pick that as my sales tagline, "Genuine Irish Glassworks!"

[dusty]

Originally Posted by menty666

By that screwed up logic I should be able to pick some aspect of my Euromutt background and pick that as my sales tagline, "Genuine Irish Glassworks!"

More or less like selling "Kobe" beef in the U.S. There are no regulations on the word, so it gets thrown around a lot. I saw a "gourmet" microwave dinner the other day in Walmart's freezer-aisle, too.