104 coe boiling

Rob · #1 2008-07-31, 3:14pm

I've got my torch turned down as low as I can turn it down and still keep it lit, and I'm working as far out in the flame as I can, However I still can't seem to do anything with the 104 coe glass without it boiling, and I mean boiling ALOT. it boils if I try to make small beads, it boils if I try to make a gather it is simply boiling no matter what I try. Does anyone have any suggestions for what might stop this? Thanks.

Wendyki · #2 2008-07-31, 3:16pm

send it to me

just kidding I am not sure why it boils so much for you is it on the rod or just when you put it on the mandrel?

Rob · #3 2008-07-31, 3:21pm

it boils in the rod, it boils on a mandrel. I'm on a CC. Pretty much every single color does it. the opaques boil sooner than the trans parents but since the torch upgrade they are a boiling soupy mess.

zen-mom · #4 2008-07-31, 3:25pm

I have a Mini CC and use effetre 104 and I never have a problem with the opaques or the transparents boiling. How close are you to the tip of the torch?

zen-mom · #5 2008-07-31, 3:26pm

I love the baby duck pics you have up on your flickr... to cute... the kitties are adorable too

lunamoonshadow · #6 2008-07-31, 3:33pm

Try About 5" out, setting the flame to look almost exactly like the flame on the hothead is what worked best for me (sorta "fluffy" looking) on the mini cc when I first started torching in the studio.

Rob · #7 2008-07-31, 3:44pm

I'm trying so far out (7-8 inches) to start, and moving it in slowly it still boils about 4-5 inches from the candles. the oxy is down low easily into a reduction flame. the propane is as low as I can get it and still keep the torch lit. seriously my candles are under a 1/2 inch long. I'm seriously hating this crap lately.

lunamoonshadow · #8 2008-07-31, 4:01pm

I started using no didy's (seriously) so I could see the blue cone, (safety glasses of course!) & putting the glass right @ the tip of the blue cone (same as with the hothead). Candles on the torch (something "new", since the hothead doesn't really have those

) were fairly small--a bit under 1/2"--I don't run the torch very high @ all--but still with plenty of oxy--I'm definitely not reducing the glass!
It *does* melt MUCH faster than the hothead does--I notice a huge difference when I switch back & forth (I'm still on my hothead @ home

, so those first few beads when I come home always seem slow

) but the biggest problem I have @ the studio is remembering that I CAN'T look away from the torch at all or my glass will drip on the table because it's going to melt so fast!
~luna

Rob · #9 2008-07-31, 4:25pm

well I can't run my torch any lower, its simply not possible. I've had my candles as small as 3/8 inch. I'm no where near the blue cone yet and the crap is boiling.

I am remembering why I stopped playing with the 104coe. I got sick of trying to get a bearable result and went back to my boro this afternoon. I found that with everything turned down it still could handle a 5mm boro rod fairly well, no huge wait. Maybe a CC is simply too big for 104 coe.

squid · #10 2008-07-31, 4:26pm

are you on a CC or a mini CC? I'm pretty sure a CC would be too much heat for soft glass, even turned way down.

Rob · #11 2008-07-31, 4:27pm

I'm on a CC.

squid · #12 2008-07-31, 4:27pm

That is a lot of torch for lil ol' soft glass

Hayley · #13 2008-07-31, 4:30pm

I think you need a smaller torch for soda lime glass!

Rob · #14 2008-07-31, 4:31pm

yeah but it handles boro faster than a hot head handles 104 coe. It really does wonderful things with the large boro rod and tube. My understanding when I got it was that I could still do the 104 coe with it, and its been nothing but a disaster. first time I tried the 104 coe on it it was like poking a birthday candle into a blast furnace. I simply can't figure out what to do to work the 104. I'm beginning to think people are wrong and you can't work soft glass on a CC. It really is just a soupy boiling mess.

lunamoonshadow · #15 2008-07-31, 5:07pm

Ah--I misread! I didn't catch the "CC" without the "mini"...my bad.

Wendyki · #16 2008-08-01, 9:02am

Yeah Rob I have to agree buy a Mini Cc or smaller torch for the soft glass

Sue in Maine · #17 2008-08-01, 9:11am

I'm going to sound like an idiot here but I don't know the CC. I'm on a mini cc.... Does your CC have both inner and outer rings? Can you turn off the outer and just use the smaller inner burner? I know some torches can do that but, like I said, I don't know the CC torch.

Just a thought... cuz if you could do that, you'd like 104 glass a LOT better than the frustrating boiling you have going on now.

Sue

tiggybubba · #18 2008-08-01, 9:16am

Ok but I'm on a bobcat and having the same problem lately. Everything is boiling. Nothing has changed in my set up but now all of a sudden, everything is boiling. I just dont get it.

Hayley · #19 2008-08-01, 9:56am

A CC does have an outer and an inner fire. Someone in my Gianni Toso workshop was using one and he was able to do some sculptural work with just the inner fire using soda lime glass. But he switched to a smaller torch pretty fast so my take was that it's a bit hot even with just the inner fire.

Firebrand Beads · #20 2008-08-01, 10:43am

Yeah, we test lots of our 104 on the inner fire of Paul's old Bethlehem burner. You can do it, it just seems like a waste of torch! I do like the mini cc and the minor for 104; plenty of heat for a low price.

Rob · #21 2008-08-01, 10:44am

I've been using just the inner fire.
I don't get what the issue is because my flame is tiny, currently smaller than the one on the mini cc I was using previously. The 104 worked on the mini cc- not perfect, but it worked. very frustrating.

glassroger · #22 2008-08-01, 11:04am

I'm not experienced with the Carlisle CC, so I'm just going by some of the things I have read. But if I understand correctly, the center fire on the CC is a premix flame. I've read both pros and cons about this, but from what I understand, a premix flame isn't really good for soft glass. I know Paul Stankard uses the CC for working soft glass, but he works with extremely tiny flames and he may also have an optimizer hooked up on the CC? I really don't know. I have worked soft glass on a national 3A hand torch, but I had to work way out at the end of the flame, about 12 inches and I had to turn it waaay down. So my guess is that the CC probably isn't the best for soft glass. I'm currently using a Hellcat for when I want to work soft glass and it rocks! But it is also a surface mix torch.
This is just my 2 cents, take it at face value.

beadsoncypress · #23 2008-08-01, 11:05am

Just remember if you run the CC with the candles too short you will burn up the torch too!!!

Mr. Smiley · #24 2008-08-01, 11:15am

Try turning on the outer ring and running it small and tight. Not big at all by that torch's standards. Turn the inner fire way down, so it doesn't dominate the flame, it just adds to it a little. The inner fire is premix and much more intense than the surface mix outer fire. This should allow you to work soda lime. Tinker a bit. I know it's possible.

Most people think the outer fire is hotter... it's not really hotter, just bigger. It's actually much easier on the glass than the intense premix center.

loco · #25 2008-08-01, 1:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley

Try turning on the outer ring and running it small and tight. Not big at all by that torch's standards. Turn the inner fire way down, so it doesn't dominate the flame, it just adds to it a little. The inner fire is premix and much more intense than the surface mix outer fire. This should allow you to work soda lime. Tinker a bit. I know it's possible.

Most people think the outer fire is hotter... it's not really hotter, just bigger. It's actually much easier on the glass than the intense premix center.

It IS doable and Brent has the correct suggestion. I have a CC and used 104 without boiling, just crank it down and bounce around.

BP (before Pam) I had my wildcat and cc both set up. There were times I got to big with the 104 for the wildcat and moved over to the cc. Think 104 and set aside your boro thoughts when working on the cc. It's a dream with 104... Ahhhh Oooooooo so sweet and fast.......

Firebrand Beads · #26 2008-08-01, 1:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimberly

Well I just learned something! I didn't realize the inner fire on the CC was premix!!! Thank you Brent and Roger!!

Amen! I knew to avoid pre-mix torches for soft glass, but thought it was just a color control & reducing issue, not so much a heat issue. So does that mean the center fire of the Bethlehem is surface mix, unlike the cc?

glassmaker · #27 2008-08-01, 1:39pm

The answer to your problem is contained in something you mentioned earlier in the thread - that you have your oxygen turned down to the point that you are well into reduction. Turn the oxygen back up. Many colors will bubble when heated in a reduction flame.

One way to soften/cool your flame is similar to the earlier suggestion of turning on your outer flame, but with a bit of a twist. Just turn the oxygen in your outer ring on a bit. Leave the outer gas off. This will cool and soften the inner flame and make it easier to work soft glass.

As others have said, working soft glass can be done on a CC. It isn't necessarily the best torch for it, but done right it works.

Brad

Firebrand Beads · #28 2008-08-01, 2:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimberly

My 'Cuda is surface mix - both the inner fire and the outer fire. I think my Son's PM2D is also totally surface mix.

Yeah, I think Paul's working an old PM2D... a *really* old one, lol!

upcoaster · #29 2010-08-29, 2:45pm

I have a Nortel Mini-Milon and I'm having trouble with boiling 104. I've used this
torch with boro since it came out, and Milon told me that it would well with any COE. I just can't figure out what is the right tip--they're all Nationals. HELP

Upcoaster