How Does AIM stay in business?

cherylsart · #1 2007-07-06, 11:24pm

I bought a kiln 3 months ago and still haven't gotten it yet. I bought it thru Dennis Brady of Victorian Art Glass.

I can understand a delay because they couldn't get parts, which is the explanation they gave me, but would it have killed them to let their customers know what's going on? I've talked to them twice. I tried to call them today to get a ship date for the kiln and got their voice mail. I left a message. Of course no one called me back. I emailed them too. Interesting that they've managed to sidestep me till Monday.

I was ready to tell Dennis I wanted a refund but everyone is telling me that the 84BD is a better kiln than the Chili Pepper I wanted originally. I guess that's because the AIM will do more than just anneal.

I don't even want to start on what I've been told about Dennis. I still don't have my kiln and Dennis still has my money so I'd prefer not to rock that boat since I have no evidence that I need to worry about his integrity. But AIM is obviously snubbing their noses at people who've bought their kilns. Like, what are we gonna do? If we want an AIM kiln we just have to wait till they get around to building it. It's a bad way to do business. If I'd have taken this long to get an auction win to someone I'd be in serious trouble.

Cheryl

ChaseDesigns · #2 2007-07-07, 6:46am

humm, I have dealt with aim directly a few times and they have been nothing but helpful. I love our AIM kiln. It is possible they took a long weekend for the 4th of July holiday.

Moth · #3 2007-07-07, 8:31am

I have the AIM84BD and I adore it. I can't imagine needing more than what it can do. I can imagine needing a crucible kiln along WITH my AIM84BD...but I wouldn't replace it, love it love it love it.

Can't speak to Dennis' business ethic or AIM's for that matter. But I can let you know that as frustrating as it is, your kiln will be worth the wait. Maybe that will be some small comfort.

Good luck to you.

(I didn't deal with AIM, bought my kiln used so that's why I don't have input on their business practices.)

~~Mary

swanseafarm · #4 2007-07-07, 9:00am

I have an AIM kiln and love it.
But I had to wait also. Not as long as you. I bought mine from a vendor but in FL. The delay isn't the vendors fault since the kilns are directly shipped from the AIM factory usually. (unless you buy used)
The vendor I bought from was not happy about the delay and stayed on the company to get answers. But, as stated before, it was worth the wait.

Hope you get your kiln soon!

Torcha · #5 2007-07-07, 9:01am

I too bought my AIM kiln from Dennis. I had no problems with my purchase - in fact got an awesome deal. Aim does make great kilns. What I have found out about a few of the manufacturers for kilns or oxycons is that they are very small businesses with just a few employees. Sometimes it does take a bit longer to get the product, but I have found it to be worth it.

As to why they have not returned your calls/emails, I hope they get back to you quickly. Good luck.
Alana

Dennis Brady · #6 2007-07-07, 9:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torcha

I too bought my AIM kiln from Dennis. I had no problems with my purchase - in fact got an awesome deal. Aim does make great kilns. What I have found out about a few of the manufacturers for kilns or oxycons is that they are very small businesses with just a few employees. Sometimes it does take a bit longer to get the product, but I have found it to be worth it.

As to why they have not returned your calls/emails, I hope they get back to you quickly. Good luck.
Alana

FWIW, nobody is more unhappy about the delays in getting kilns built and shipped then me. We would all be a lot happier if the kilns could be built and shipped quickly - but they can't. Nobody is getting preferential or detrimental treatment. Everybody has to wait. It's understandable that anybody waiting for a kiln would like to know exactly when to expect it, but if the builder can't guarantee specifically when, they won't make a promise other then as quickly as they can. As the sales agent, all I can do is pass on the same promise.

We extended to Cheryl our standard full refund cancellation offer we make to anyone that has lost patience and is no longer willing to wait. It's my understanding the Cheryl instead opted to upgrade from a kiln with pyrometer to one with Bartlett controller. AIM has assured me this upgrade will not further delay shipment.

cherylsart · #7 2007-07-07, 12:42pm

"We extended to Cheryl our standard full refund cancellation offer we make to anyone that has lost patience and is no longer willing to wait. It's my understanding the Cheryl instead opted to upgrade from a kiln with pyrometer to one with Bartlett controller. AIM has assured me this upgrade will not further delay shipment."

That's true Dennis. I really don't want to have to get a refund and start over. And as I said, I have no evidence that you are not being up front with me. I'm just hoping that I don't have to wait too much longer, as I have hundreds of beads that need to be annealed so they can be sold (which means I'm losing money) and some of which are already sold and the buyers are (so far) waiting patiently for them to be annealed.

I know I'm not the only one who has had to wait for a kiln, I know that as a vendor there is only so much that you can do. I just think it would help if AIM was a little more forthcoming with information and letting their customers know about potential delays. We know they make good kilns. I'm told that my 84BD will be worth the wait. And I found out today that my Dad has 20 amp circuits in his garage which will be great when I go to batch this hoarde of beads!

Cheryl

Norskiglass · #8 2007-07-07, 2:15pm

A little bird told me that the controllers (fuji) are holding em back....so it may be worth it to order it without one or a bartlet controller.http://seattlepotterysupply.com
will build you anything if its not in stock and are on the ball!

Dennis Brady · #9 2007-07-07, 3:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norskiglass

A little bird told me that the controllers (fuji) are holding em back....so it may be worth it to order it without one or a bartlet controller.http://seattlepotterysupply.com
will build you anything if its not in stock and are on the ball!

The delays at AIM have much more to do with difficulty getting supplies then with their own production capacity.

Carols Glass · #10 2007-07-08, 12:25am

I think it would be a great idea if a place like that would at least let you use a "loaner" kiln.
I couldn't have taken waiting 3 months for a kiln! I will never order an AIM knowing it may take forever to get one!
My kiln does more than anneal, it's an all purpose firebrick kiln with bead door, etc. It's a Paragon Caldera and even during Christmas and New Year they had it shipped within a week clear across the US.
What good is a better kiln when you have no kiln at all?
This would drive me nuts! I'm going nuts just waiting for something I won on Mother's Day (almost 2 months ago). I can't imagine forking out the money and having to wait 3 months.
The thing for me is that I was going to order what I won, but since I won it, I didn't order it, and well......I don't want to hijack your thread anymore than I have.
Just want to say, I know it must be very hard for you and I hope everything turns out great for you soon.

BeadMaven · #11 2007-07-08, 5:32am

That seems like a long time to wait.

I too have a Paragon Caldera (like Carol's above) and had it here within 2 weeks time ready to go.

Unless you just Have to have the AIM, I'd get a refund and call Paragon but whatever you do, I wish you luck!

Beckah · #12 2007-07-08, 5:55am

My Paragon Caldera also shipped quickly and 5 years later, I still think it's a great choice for a first kiln. I've fused, slumped, annealled and done PMC -- anything that's caught my attention, I've been able to do.

BeadMaven · #13 2007-07-08, 6:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beckah

My Paragon Caldera also shipped quickly and 5 years later, I still think it's a great choice for a first kiln. I've fused, slumped, annealled and done PMC -- anything that's caught my attention, I've been able to do.

I

my Caldera! I haven't used it for anything else yet but I hope to.
I want to slump some beads that cracked in half but still haven't found a schedule.
No to hi-jack but do you have a schedule for that for 104 COE glass?

Moth · #14 2007-07-08, 7:22am

Cheryl, I'd be willing to anneal your beads for you. I've successfully done this for several people. It might help to take some of the pressure off you.

Please be willing to insure your package back and forth and accept a small percentage of potential breakage during annealing. The last time I annealed a whole kiln full of beads, there were 2 cracked if that helps you imagine the success rate. It depends on their shapes and sizes and your normal success rate.

I'd be happy to do it.
~~Mary

cherylsart · #15 2007-07-08, 9:32am

Thanks Mary. I may take you up on that! I've had Jo of Dogmaw Glass anneal many of my beads as well. I don't get upset if a few come back broken. I figure that's inevitable. I'm just glad someone is willing to do it for me! I've been shipping them to Jo priority mail so that they are in a box. I don't mind spending the extra money for that. If it looks like this delay is going to continue much longer I will get back to you and Jo. Split the group between you. Thanks again!

Cheryl

cherylsart · #16 2007-07-08, 9:38am

Thanks to all for your support and feedback. I think I just got caught in bad timing for this kiln. I really don't want to get a refund and start over. I wouldn't be able to order anything else until I got the money back and who knows how long that would take? (Nothing personal Dennis, but sometimes refunds take time). I'd rather just see this through and get the AIM. I have several people who have been nice enough to offer to batch my beads for me and I've been doing that already, before I ordered the kiln.

I hope that AIM will see some of this an re-evaluate their business practices. They may make good kilns but they aren't the only game in town!

Cheryl

dogmaw · #17 2007-07-08, 9:43am

Cheryl, no problem! Just send another box my way.

cherylsart · #18 2007-07-08, 9:54am

You're all such nice people. Thanks again!

Julz · #19 2007-07-08, 10:42am

Kind of strange that you were charged for the kiln before it was ready to ship. I have one on order, a CR420D, and my card will not be charged by AIM until the unit is ready to go. That should just be standard operating procedure for any business. As a matter of fact, I thought it was illegal to do something like that- unless what you have paid is only a deposit.

Sure hope that your kiln comes along very soon, and that it is perfect for you.

Elegance_1 · #20 2007-07-08, 11:59am

Trust me. It's not Dennis. I bought mine from Kilnwest, an Ebay vendor and the wait was close to 3 months or more. It's AIM. The kilns are made as they are ordered. If they don't have all the necessary parts then they need to be ordered and that may be the hold up as well. They do not ship out one kiln at a time. They get a few ready and then schedule them to ship out at one time. Mine was scheduled out with one other. Once it was shipped I had it quickly.

Call the company or email them. They can tell you when your kiln is scheduled to be shipped. They were very friendly.

I must say though that I won't buy another AIM only because of the time I had to wait for it to arrive. It would be nice if they offered some type of email update for their customers instead of stark silence.

mikefrantz · #21 2007-07-08, 3:13pm

Perhaps one day when I write my book :Memoirs of a Glass Merchant, the truth about how the Mafia controls who gets kilns and who does not get kilns will be made public.

Mike Frantz

cherylsart · #22 2007-07-08, 3:21pm

That's funny Mike. As for being charged or not, I paid Dennis with a money order, and I don't know if he's cashed it or not. He did offer me a refund but I'm going to see this through (I hope). Now that I know it's not just me I feel a little better about it, but I'll be better still (and so will my Dad, who lent me the money to buy it) once it's arrived.

Cheryl

Beckah · #23 2007-07-09, 6:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeadMaven

I

my Caldera! I haven't used it for anything else yet but I hope to.
I want to slump some beads that cracked in half but still haven't found a schedule.
No to hi-jack but do you have a schedule for that for 104 COE glass?

I usually just add cracked beads to fill out a full fuse tray and use my usual full fuse schedule for tiny pieces which is:

ramp 1000 to 1225 and hold for 15 min (this is for a bubble squeeze)
ramp FULL to 1475 and hold for 10 min
ramp FULL to 960 and hold for 20 min
If it's a really cold night in the winter in Florida, I sometimes change the 3rd step to a sliding anneal. But living in Florida, I find that the Caldera takes plenty of time to cool down once it shuts off, so I'm not worried about it cooling too quickly.

Hints: get all the bead release out! Somehow even the smallest speck will seem to find its way to the surface. I also put a piece of unbent Hi-Temp wire (I got mine at Two Lasses with Glass Classes) into the beadhole before firing. After firing, I clean it up and bend it into a small loop. Bending beforehand just didn't seem to work.

cherylsart · #24 2007-07-09, 7:28am

I've slumped several of my cracked beads, but my little kiln has no way to control the temp so I just let it heat up to about 1650 and then turn it off. I've never had a problem. It takes about 17 minutes to get it to that temp.

Cheryl

BeadMaven · #25 2007-07-09, 8:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beckah

I usually just add cracked beads to fill out a full fuse tray and use my usual full fuse schedule for tiny pieces which is:

ramp 1000 to 1225 and hold for 15 min (this is for a bubble squeeze)
ramp FULL to 1475 and hold for 10 min
ramp FULL to 960 and hold for 20 min
If it's a really cold night in the winter in Florida, I sometimes change the 3rd step to a sliding anneal. But living in Florida, I find that the Caldera takes plenty of time to cool down once it shuts off, so I'm not worried about it cooling too quickly.

Hints: get all the bead release out! Somehow even the smallest speck will seem to find its way to the surface. I also put a piece of unbent Hi-Temp wire (I got mine at Two Lasses with Glass Classes) into the beadhole before firing. After firing, I clean it up and bend it into a small loop. Bending beforehand just didn't seem to work.

Thanks for the schedule Bekah

I don't have a fuse tray but I had planned all along to use shelf paper and I think that will be all right. I am realy excited now, I have everyting I need with the number to go along with it!
As soon as I get some done, I'll post the pics

Thanks bunches

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherylsart

I've slumped several of my cracked beads, but my little kiln has no way to control the temp so I just let it heat up to about 1650 and then turn it off. I've never had a problem. It takes about 17 minutes to get it to that temp.

Cheryl

Thanks Cheryl, I'm gonna test your quick slump out too. I like quick!

Hopeing you get your kiln soon....and you could send some beads to me too if you have a bazillion to anneal!

Add to me your annealer list, I wouldn't mind at all - just PM me

jjglass · #26 2007-07-16, 5:30pm

I ordered an AIM kiln through Dennis. I waited a little over a month, but received it without any issues and had no problems with Dennis or his company. Two sides to every merchant vs. customer story, so don't always believe what you're told.

Dennis Brady · #27 2007-07-16, 6:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjglass

I ordered an AIM kiln through Dennis. I waited a little over a month, but received it without any issues and had no problems with Dennis or his company. Two sides to every merchant vs. customer story, so don't always believe what you're told.

Thanks for the supportive comment.

In fairness to Cheryl, she did get caught at a time when AIM was outstandingly behind for numerous reasons. Cheryl was unhappy about the delay, I was unhappy that she was unhappy, and AIM couldn't provide a guaranteed delivery day - so we resolved it by me cancelling the order and refunding her money.

AIM is still a little behind but steadily catching up on orders. As I've posted on our website. You can have good, you can have cheap, or you can have quick. Pick two. We opted to supply good kilns at cheap prices. We don't do quick.

To answer the initial question, "How does AIM stay in business"?
By building some of the best kilns in the USA and providing them at exceptional prices. They've been building high quality kilns since 1966 and I expect they'll still be building high quality kilns in 2066.

cherylsart · #28 2007-07-16, 6:08pm

I've sinced asked Dennis for a refund. I hated to do it because I really don't think it's his fault, but I need a kiln and I can't wait forever for it. I think someone needs to let AIM know that their long delays are not acceptable. The only way to do that is to take our business elsewhere. I really wanted a ChiliPepper anyway. So once I get my money back I will look for one of those.

ETA- Dennis, you posted just when I did.

I'd like to add that Dennis has been nothing but helpful and supportive and I do not blame him for this in any way. I also realize that AIM builds excellent kilns for great prices. There is more to my reason for canceling my order. I wanted a bead annealer, one that pulls less amps than the 84BD, and I already have a kiln for fusing. I went for this one originally because of the low price, but the sales I've lost waiting for it to be built have overshadowed the money I would have saved on it. Which, again, is in no way Dennis' fault.

Cheryl

NightCat · #29 2007-07-23, 2:00pm

I live in the same town as AIM and have delt with them on a one-to-one basis. They are a very nice small family business. AIM isn't some giant automated factory. I didn't ask or count but it looked like there were only 8 to 10 folks working there and they were building the kilns one at a time by hand.

I haven't been out there in months so I don't know anything about delays. I just wanted to stick-up for a home town company.

~Ross

cherylsart · #30 2007-07-23, 5:15pm

I realize also that they have had problems with getting the parts they need to build the kilns. I chalk it up to bad timing. I'm going to get Jen Ken Chili Pepper, which was what I wanted originally. Dennis says that AIM is beginning to catch up so hopefully the next person who orders a kiln from them won't have to wait so long. I just took it as a sign that I should go ahead and get the kiln that I wanted in the first place.

Cheryl