mandrel remove, Help please!!!!

murf · #1 2007-02-10, 11:45am

My mornings start out pretty much the same, a walk out to the shop to empty out the kiln and then turn it on; next I focus on my beads, and the removal of the mandrel. I find my self saying sweet nothings like “come on baby that’s it” then well the conversation tends to go south. Those sweet nothings turn to oaths, and well you’d have to go to the bedroom section to read that portion, but damn the freaking mandrels are nearly impossible to remove. One hand hold locking vice grips the other a bead. My god my hands are already suffering, but I refuse to give up this gem of a bead to a pot sticker. No joke how am I to spin a mandrel when I barely can unclench my hand, from such a work out? Oh my kingdom for an easier way to do this. I should be posting pictures of my mandrels, so nicely twisted and bent it to such pretty shapes. Tell me I’m not alone, this will be a very short lived hobby do to this problem; my hands just can't handle it. So tell me, hints, advice, anything please.
Thanks Bayard

CO_Phantom · #2 2007-02-10, 12:25pm

I use pliers to grab the mandrel just under the bead and use a rubber jar opener, tourniquet, etc to grab the bead and twist. I've found the rubber tourniquet (the hospitals were getting rid of latex ones so i cabbaged onto one or two) are just the right size since they are about 3/4" thick and can wrap around the bead nicely. That helps my grip on the bead.

-Amy

InspirationToolworks · #3 2007-02-10, 12:56pm

You shouldn't have to work that hard. Have you tried any of the new easy-release bead releases?

I've heard people having success with using a dissolving agent, such as coke, vinegar, or CLR. Also, freezing is supposed to help.

-Jeff

Renee · #4 2007-02-10, 12:57pm

I've used a sponge for slightly stubborn beads, but for those beads that are suffering from seperation anxiety, I'll use a rubber glove, like the kind you use for doing dishes. Instead of putting it on, I'll fold it over a number of times (similar to Amy's rubber jar opener). The jar opener is probably better, but since I can't seem to find mine (could I have thrown it out?!) the rubber glove is an adequate substitute.

Unfortunately, there are some that simply have refused to release their grip on the mandrel for reasons unknown to me (I guess the release must have cracked inside the bead somewhere).

Byrdbeads · #5 2007-02-10, 1:30pm

try just letting them soak, for days if you have to. Try it every day to see if it is loosened any and if not than put back in water and let soak more. Have you tried Foster Fire? (not affiliated just a very very happy customer) I rarely even need a pr of pliers. Ill use them tho so mandrel bendage is kept to a min since I tend to bend it in my fingers. To date (4 1/2 yrs now) have never had a bead stick. If I have worked it a lot than I will need the pliers to hold right next to the bead but a quick twist and it is loose. If you would like a tourniquet pm me your addy, Ill send you one (LOL New, unused LOL).

Robyn

Tink · #6 2007-02-10, 1:57pm

What kind of bead release are you using? I use Alice's, and haven't had a single piece stick in about five years.

When I started teaching at the Toledo Museum, they gave me a tour of the studio. When they pointed at a bench mounted vise saying, "That's where students take their beads off the mandrels", I knew I had to do something about that. LOL! They have since switched over to Alice's, and everyone is happy. No vise in the new studio.

mtnlaurel · #7 2007-02-10, 4:25pm

I just switched from the blue sludge- I was having the same problem- I tried soaking, clr, freezing, then the pliars and a rubber jar opener. I ended up bending more mandrels than not. I am now using Alices and I love it!!! Most of the time I can just grab the bead and twist and it comes off. Believe me- I was ready to give it up too. My hands had blisters from the workout! Renee

Peach Blossom Beads · #8 2007-02-10, 5:13pm

As far as I can tell, you're not soaking your mandrels. You always need to do that with any bead release. Just makes life better and you don't get the dust from the cracking bead release everywhere for you to breathe! If you're using Blue Sludge, well, that's your other problem. THROW IT AWAY! Any other release mentioned here is thousand times better. I use 2/3 BOM with 1/3 Fosterfire Heavy Duty. The BOM is the smoothest bead release made and the addition of FF means NO cracking on large beads.

squid · #9 2007-02-10, 6:44pm

I use Foster Fire Heavy Duty and do not have to soak the mandrels at all. It is super strong, but the beads slide right off the next day!

daisydog7 · #10 2007-02-10, 7:03pm

I use Bucket Of Mud, no problems.

pipojasper · #11 2007-02-10, 7:06pm

Oh man, I feel your pain. When I first started I got a HH kit that had some bead release with it. I would fight for literally an hour with my beads trying to get them off the mandrels. Grrrr! I was so frustrated. Then I bought a new brand of bead release and it was like MAGIC! The beads come off with just a little twist. No more gloves, no more pliers, no soaking, no coke, no nuttin! Man was I happy and really really pissed at the same time knowing how much time I wasted trying to coax my beads off the mandrel. Sounds like you need to switch bead release. As far as brand I think there are a lot of good ones out there. I use BOM, but I'm sure any of the "bigger" names are just as good. Good luck to ya

anne225 · #12 2007-02-11, 8:36am

I had the dark blue/crappy grey release ...what a mess and lost some beads and mandrels too. Went back to my BOM...thank goodness!

I soak my beads in a tall florist vase, use a pair of pliers that have very fine teeth and also the jar opener when needed.

Good Luck.
Anne

BTW...Brandy up there..I love your little blue dancing porpoise

tasminann · #13 2007-02-11, 8:45am

I'll also agree that it's probably the bead release -- it should not be that hard to get 99% of the beads off! (OK, so I have a stubborn one every once in awhile, but it's been a long time since I've had a plant stake.) I use a mixture of BOM and FosterFire.

Another possibility is that your bead release isn't thick enough coating the mandrel.

Marie C · #14 2007-02-11, 8:59am

I've had this problem too and it's VERY FRUSTRATING!!! I've used Bucket of Mud mixed with Foster Fire and it would break while I was MAKING the beads. That was just as frustrating! So, I tried Blue Sludge.

Messy, messy, messy and can't get the beads off the mandrel!

Soooooo, I just ordered from Zingz Art Glass, their bead release that's supposed to make it SUPER EASY to remove beads. If that doesn't work I'm going to try Alice's.

Good luck! Chow!!!

Warmly, Marie C

Peach Blossom Beads · #15 2007-02-11, 9:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid

I use Foster Fire Heavy Duty and do not have to soak the mandrels at all. It is super strong, but the beads slide right off the next day!

You missed part of my point. Are you putting them in water while you pull the beads off? or are you doing it dry and letting the dust fly around?
I don't see whay anyone wouldn't put them in water for a few minutes anyway... the beads just come off easier. My beads silde off too but I don't want to breathe in that dust.

Lisi · #16 2007-02-11, 11:38am

I've tried all of these and Alice's is by far the easiest for getting beads off the mandrels. Sometimes I soak for only 15 minutes and they slip off with no stress on my hands.

I've used:

BOM
KRAG Mudd
Purple Piffle
Hotline
FosterFire

But I do mix my Alice's with other bead releases (it's a little 'grainy' anyway), which I had to do once I discovered that my hands were going to fall off many many bent 1/16" mandrels later.

If I could find a bead release that is just as smooth as BOM and not grainy like Alice's, I swear, I would never buy another.

Byrdbeads · #17 2007-02-11, 2:09pm

" I've used Bucket of Mud mixed with Foster Fire and it would break while I was MAKING the beads. That was just as frustrating! "

I find when I have this problem or the release cracks it is because I have let my release get too thick and needs to be thinned a little, then no cracking or breaking and Im not the most gently thing with the glass either LOL.

Robyn

KEW · #18 2007-02-11, 2:44pm

Soak in warm water for at least 15 min. Vice grips on one end of the bead, twist to break the release then spiral down. Stiff? Use the rubber (or whatever) jar opener on the bead.

I have more trouble with long thin beads. Generally need the rubber jar opener right off.

If that doesn't work, I use the following back ups. 1) Continue the soak and keep trying. For days if neccessary. 2) Stick it in the freezer, trying periodically. I had a bead in the freezer for 3 days that I tried every day. Then I forgot about it for 2 weeks. Came right off. Check regularly and throw it out when you are sick of trying.

I've tried lots of bead releases and I'm happiest with Fusion. Everybody has their preferences and sometimes I think it's the individual environment or the individual working style that makes the difference.

squid · #19 2007-02-11, 7:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by taramag

You missed part of my point. Are you putting them in water while you pull the beads off? or are you doing it dry and letting the dust fly around?
I don't see whay anyone wouldn't put them in water for a few minutes anyway... the beads just come off easier. My beads silde off too but I don't want to breathe in that dust.

Typically, the bead release doesn't break down into a powder when I take the beads off the mandrel - it usually comes off as a solid "tube" of release on the bead and I just knock it off.

Tink · #20 2007-02-11, 7:25pm

I don't soak either. The beads/vessels slide right off. No dust to speak of. Just a solid tube of bead release.

murf · #21 2007-02-11, 10:07pm

I presently am using BOM but don't think thats the problem. most of my problem are in long beadsand just hands that have a hard time grasping firmly on small beads,but found a great solution and tested it out today. my solution is a drill press(if you try this unplug the press). I have three drill presses and all seem to be basically the same. hopefully the pictures will explain what takes place. i can either pull the bead down from the mandrel by lowering the table, or have the drill head and chuck in its down ward position and just back the mandrel out like a cork. There was zero resistance in either case and not even pot stickers could out wit this easy way of extracting the mandrel(my wife ask me to leave a few behind). Once the board is center, it is clamped fast, the beads are inserted in the chuck up though the hole. or if you use longer mandrels the board would simple be placed underneath the through hole.
in any case Thank You All. i think id like to try Alice release, but sounds like you have to buy quite a bit????
Bayard

InspirationToolworks · #22 2007-02-12, 4:55am

Okay, that's slick

-Jeff

kentaymom · #23 2007-02-12, 5:17am

Very cool idea!

scouncil · #24 2007-02-12, 5:18am

Pretty slick, but too much trouble. I use bucket O' Mud as well. I saw a tool in a magazine for hard to release beads and had DH make me one. It's two 1 1/2 inch pieces of wood attached at one end by a hinge with round holes drilled in the center (half the hole on one side and half on the other). The holes are larger closer to the hinge and range from about 1" to 1/4". For stubborn beads, I clamp that baby on and it only takes about one twist. You have to be a little careful since you have a lot more torque and can bend the mandrel, but it's much better than having a pot sticker!!

I can try to take a picture of it, if anyone wants to see it. It was pretty easy to make and DH sanded and tapered the handles. Very nice....

And what is Alice's. I've never seen it, unless it has another name?

Susan

dpglassworks · #25 2007-02-12, 5:25am

Does anybody buy the 10 pound bag of Alice's?? I am assuming this is dry and you have to mix it?

Is the premixed tub better?

I am afraid I wouldn't get the consistency right?

Marie C · #26 2007-02-12, 5:32am

Susan, I'd like to see a picture of this contraption your husband made. Can't picture it in my mind. Thanks!

Where can we buy Alice's Bead Release?

Thanks! Warmly, Marie C

WillfulOne · #27 2007-02-12, 6:10am

I use a damp paper towel to hold the bead. A pair of pliers to hold the mandrel close to the bead. Then twist the bead off of the mandrel.

If you have to use a drill press, you need to change your release! I use to have trouble getting beads off of the mandrel, blisters in fact and dozens of bent mandrels. I switched to Foster Fire and now they come off with amazing ease.

Moth · #28 2007-02-12, 8:35am

I've never tried Alice's but have heard great things about it.

I started out with Sludge, and like it because I didn't know any better.

FosterFire sent me a free sample a few years back and I never looked any further.

The beads slip right off, with no dust...it just slides off like a tube of clay. I do run them under water anyway though because the feel & sound of the dry clay slipping down the dry steel mandrel gives me the willies. Yikes, I've got goosebumps just imagining it. Ugh.

I used to have a lot of difficult to remove beads with the sludge. I'd put the mandrels with beads stuck into the freezer. In a few hours, with pliers and a rubber gribber thingie, I could struggle beads off the mandrels. I haven't had to do that with the FosterFire.

Switch releases. Really.
~~Mary

Lisi · #29 2007-02-12, 8:37am

Glad to help y'all out, here's the link! It's great stuff and a very cheap price if you ask me!

http://www.alicesstainedglass.com/release.htm

It's dry so you have to mix it up yourself, but it's not hard to do at all! You know how some brands of spaghetti sauce sell their product in a mason jar? I love the lids because they have a nice rubber seal so the release doesn't dry out so quick in storage once it's mixed.

This is how I mix mine - I fill the jar about 2/3 up with the dry powder, and add just a few ounces of water at first and mix to a paste. Then keep adding and mixing till you get a nice smooth creamy pancake batter consistency. Most of the time I thin mine out a little more than that. As you mix, dip a mandrel every now and then to see if it is thick or thin enough to your liking. Later on you will just have to add a little water every now and then as it can dry out somewhat even in a seemingly well sealed jar. Or, you can mix it in a blender to get it really smooth.

Oh, almost forgot - add a few wonky beads to help mix it up easier when you have to shake the jar later!

Peach Blossom Beads · #30 2007-02-12, 9:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid

Typically, the bead release doesn't break down into a powder when I take the beads off the mandrel - it usually comes off as a solid "tube" of release on the bead and I just knock it off.

Really? Mine doesn't come off in a tube! lol! It cracks but I have NO PATIENCE for taking the beads off.... I hate doing it. I used to use just fosterfire and I loved it, and I don't remember the whole thing coming off in a tube, just part of it. But it's too grainy so I now I use the mix. Mine do come off very easily. Sometimes with just my hands, though, why bother when pliers on the mandrel just make things easier??
I would still think there may be a bit of dust but I could be totally wrong.