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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

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  #1  
Old 2008-02-14, 12:13pm
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giapet giapet is offline
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Default Think it is SAFE to have LP tank inside?

This is a real threat to you and your loved ones.
This is what happens when a #20 LP tank explodes inside your house.











The story is here

Do not take chances, keep your tank outside.
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  #2  
Old 2008-02-14, 3:04pm
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Well if this just dosen't Make the point. Then I guess that nothing will.

Holy Crap!!!!!!!!!
Talk about the
I bet his ears are ringing!
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  #3  
Old 2008-02-14, 5:31pm
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OK...this is freaking me out, but in a good way. I DO care about safety. I keep my propane tank outside and bring it in when I'm working. My husband insists that this is safe, but I'm inclined to keep my tank outside my window and hose it in.

My question now becomes, is there an easy way to keep an eye on the regulator? I know that I'm supposed to keep the volume @ 5... so if I glance over and it needs adjusting, I just reach over. If I keep my tank outside, does that mean that I would have to walk outside and around the house for the purpose. It's not a complaint. I just want to know how to deal with that.

I'm new to this and I appreciate this forum!

Thanks
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  #4  
Old 2008-02-14, 6:39pm
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Regulator should not need that much adjusting.... Once set it should stay where it is...

Dale
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  #5  
Old 2008-02-14, 6:50pm
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Thanks Dale! I'm going to do it. The safety thing is really hitting home. I love life and I plan on being around for a while!

I think if I take a peak at the regulator once an hour or two, I should be fine.
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  #6  
Old 2008-02-14, 10:34pm
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I'm putting the story behind the pictures here too because it is important enough to not get lost down the road when it is deleted from the original site.

Investigators say gas leak caused house explosion
Kalamazoo Gazette February 13, 2008 13:34PM
Categories: Breaking News

WHITE PIGEON -- Gas that caused a house to explode Tuesday in St. Joseph County probably leaked from a 20-pound tank used to fuel a propane heater in the basement, a Michigan State Police fire investigator said.

The gas seems to have ignited when 39-year-old David Stanley lit a cigarette, Sgt. Scott LeRoy said. Stanley, who was listed in stable condition this afternoon in the burn unit at Kalamazoo's Bronson Methodist Hospital, told investigators he had been using the propane heater as a secondary heat source for his home, which had electric heating, LeRoy said.

The 8:45 a.m. blast leveled the house, at 13565 U.S. 12, just west of White Pigeon, and rattled a nearby business and other houses. LeRoy said Stanley told investigators he climbed out of his basement after the explosion.

At the scene Tuesday, debris was scattered everywhere, and a hot tub was the only household item still recognizable near where the structure had stood. Police shut down U.S. 12 between Burke and Blue School roads for several hours after the explosion, and firefighters from five departments responded to the scene.

LeRoy said the blast remains under investigation and that authorities are still trying to determine what caused the tank to leak. He said investigators have been unable to locate the propane heater in the debris.
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  #7  
Old 2008-02-15, 7:17am
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MikeAurelius MikeAurelius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
OK...this is freaking me out, but in a good way. I DO care about safety. I keep my propane tank outside and bring it in when I'm working. My husband insists that this is safe, but I'm inclined to keep my tank outside my window and hose it in.

My question now becomes, is there an easy way to keep an eye on the regulator? I know that I'm supposed to keep the volume @ 5... so if I glance over and it needs adjusting, I just reach over. If I keep my tank outside, does that mean that I would have to walk outside and around the house for the purpose. It's not a complaint. I just want to know how to deal with that.

I'm new to this and I appreciate this forum!

Thanks
Your husband, unfortunately, is not only wrong, but the practice is illegal, and if there were an "incident" (to use a kind word), most likely your insurance company would refuse to pay for any damage and cancel your policy.

The NFPA states quite clearly:

Quote:
The American National Standard for storage and use of propane cylinders is NFPA 58-2004, Liquified Petrleum Gas Code, which is adopted in all 50 states. NFPA 58 does not allow 20# propane cylinders to be used or stored in residences. This includes garages attached to residences, and detached garages. Use is permitted to a limited degree in industrial buildings, but only where it would be impractical to locate the cylinder outdoors and pipe the gas in.

The major hazard is not BLEVE, but overheating and release of the propane torch fire, which can extend 20 ft from a cylinder (from the pressure release valve). This can spread fire horizontally, and can be a significant threat to firefighters.
Dale and myself and others have stated this so many doggone times, I'm surprised to hear that there are people still doing this.

And, for the record, anyone using a bulk tank with their hot head torch should get a copy of the latest ISGB quarterly "The Glass Bead", turn to page 28/29 and read Vince Henley's column on Studio Safety. He states quite clearly: using a bulk tank with a hot head or similar torch is an uncertified usage, and not only could cause a catastrophic incident, but could also result in legal charges of gross negligence. Using the so-called bulk tank adapters that are designed for RV's and campstoves for torches is an uncertified usage. These adapters are not designed to be used in this fashion by the manufacturers.
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  #8  
Old 2008-02-15, 7:51am
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Mike,

I am totally freaked out by the number who still take tanks inside to work! 27% according to your original poll! When this house explosion hit the news, first thing I thought of was... you have to find the pics online and post them.

I want to freak out as many of them as possible who are still keeping tanks inside. This guy (and his dog) were lucky, he got out even though badly burned. What if there were kids in that house!

I hope that with continued effect we can get the point across!
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  #9  
Old 2008-02-15, 8:01am
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According to the wisdom of my father:

We give them the books, we send them to school, but they still don't learn!

I'm not sure what is going to happen first, if someone is going to get badly burned or blown up in their home studio, or if there is going to be an incident involving no or bad studio ventilation. There's already been one death that has been partially attributed to bad studio ventilation -- so we know that it CAN happen.

Some of us are referred to as safety nazi's by some teachers, can you imagine that? They poo-poo the idea of proper eyewear, good ventilation, and proper propane safety!!

I want to know who these teachers are so a public list can be made exposing these (I really really want to use a very naughty word) people for the fools that they are. I'd be happy to host it on my blog, and I will name names. I have absolutely no tolerance for teachers who won't teach safety first, last and always. I will also name studio names that offer classes with bad ventilation. Send me the names and I will publish them on-line, and the persons' name who turned them in will never be revealed.

I think we may have to go back to the punishments of the 1700's -- where public humiliation was the only way to get some people to follow the rules.
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  #10  
Old 2008-02-15, 8:42am
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It's funny...I took a beginning lampworking class and they covered the usual stuff like POOP, glasses, don't touch the hot glass or the kilns, etc. But it never occurred to anyone to include 15 minutes about "if you want to set up at home, here are some considerations". I actually had to expressly ask for a quick bit of info on that.
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  #11  
Old 2008-02-15, 9:12am
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I am so grateful for this forum. Mike & Dale, thank you both for being direct and right to the point. I'm a no nonsense, right to the point kind of gal and I appreciate the info.

I think it's really dangerous that many teachers out there are not addressing this issue in their classses. Particularly beginner's classes.
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  #12  
Old 2008-02-15, 2:36pm
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There is a gal up here who teachers and had 5-6 #20 lb. tanks in her basement before she rented space elsewhere. One of my friends took her class yrs ago. And this woman was featured in the local paper....made me shudder to think of it.

Since then this teacher was also working with a girl I know who set up a local glass store/studio. I had to tell her all about the risks and legalities and how they'd be in big trouble if something ever happened. The owner had no idea......duh, isn't it your responsibility to contact a fire marshal about this if you don't have a clue?


Karen
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  #13  
Old 2008-02-17, 9:42am
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Typical and I'm not surprised.

That teacher probable never reads any of the forums, or if she does, she doesn't read the safety forums because "she knows it all". Let me know her name and I'll add her to the Hall of Shame.
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  #14  
Old 2008-02-25, 6:48am
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I still work on a HH and the MAPP gas containers frustrate the hell out of me. A few months ago I bought a bulk hose, but never got around to buying the BBQ tank and getting it set up, and since then I have read several horror stories and warnings from people I trust know what they`re talking about, so I sold my bulk hose and am just going to wait until I can afford a better torch and set it up the right way. I`d rather be frustrated every once in awhile than dead.
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Old 2008-03-05, 6:50pm
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soooo... the little mapp gas containers are okay? how about the prop containers that are the same size. sorry if this was answered before, but i'd rather be safe than..... well you know.
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  #16  
Old 2008-03-05, 8:02pm
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NFPA code and regulations allow 2 one pound cylinders to be stored in a residence....... If you have more two the "others" need to be outside....

Dale
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Old 2008-03-06, 12:10am
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Just to add worry and concern, I will add an extra monkey in the wrench. I know of a man who lived in a very small room that was built onto a house. It was Winter and he was using a small propane heater with one pound propane bottles. He had three of them in the room with him. He heard at least one of the bottles vent off gas. He tried to make it to the door but the room exploded and was totally demolished. The gas ignited, the small, closed space over pressurized and blew outward. It was a terrible site and completely demolished the small room.... small....studio sized room. There was nothing left of the little room.

He lived on our block. I ran down the street and got to him first. He was in bad shape. I asked what happened and he told me about hearing the gas vent. He died three days later.

Investigators believe he had one or both of the full bottles close to the heater, they heated up vented off completely and ignited.

I know people still take chances but I couldn't imagine the death this poor man suffered. I sure would not want to suffer like that or cause any of my family members to suffer that way.

Otter
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  #18  
Old 2008-03-06, 3:03pm
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holy cow. am i ever going to get to work? I live in a condo! so much for being able to lampwork in south east florida, where there are no torches to rent in studios. grrrr. so mapp is out too? (btw, i don't use heaters here... warm enough without)
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