Cola soaking time for beads

[LarryC]

Originally Posted by Lisi

I had some beads with a lot of copper green in them turn a grayish green. Worse than I had ever seen, and I think I was working with a somewhat reducing flame. Coming out of the kiln they were worse though.

Are you thinking that this is NOT a reduction effect? Could it be devit? I wouldnt think so since soaking in a mild acid solution seems to help. Just curious since this is the first I have heard of the Snobol and Cola treatments. Working in Boro sounds pretty simple compared to this

[Lisi]

Originally Posted by LarryC

Are you thinking that this is NOT a reduction effect? Could it be devit? I wouldnt think so since soaking in a mild acid solution seems to help. Just curious since this is the first I have heard of the Snobol and Cola treatments. Working in Boro sounds pretty simple compared to this

No...it IS an effect of a slightly reducing flame. Which brings the copper in the glass to the surface, and it can look dull and greyish on colors like turquoise and copper green. Completely removable with the cola or toilet bowl cleaners. I'm talking about Effetre glass. I don't think boro has this problem, but then again boro is a different animal.

Devit is dull and non-shiny or chalky. I wasn't referring to that at all, and there is no cure for that once out of the flame and cooled.

[LarryC]

Originally Posted by Lisi

No...it IS an effect of a slightly reducing flame. Which brings the copper in the glass to the surface, and it can look dull and greyish on colors like turquoise and copper green. Completely removable with the cola or toilet bowl cleaners. I'm talking about Effetre glass. I don't think boro has this problem, but then again boro is a different animal.

Devit is dull and non-shiny or chalky. I wasn't referring to that at all, and there is no cure for that once out of the flame and cooled.

If it is just reduction it occurs in ANY reducing glass and Boro is no exception. No way to adjust flame chemistry to eliminate this? Does Pepsi work better than coke?

[Lisi]

Originally Posted by LarryC

If it is just reduction it occurs in ANY reducing glass and Boro is no exception. No way to adjust flame chemistry to eliminate this? Does Pepsi work better than coke?

Reducing can go deeper than the surface and it will make a permanent change in the glass. But the Effetre colors that have copper in them are the ones that get the greyish scum that is removable. It is in a fine layer on the surface. Even if I use a high oxy flame, just putting these beads in the kiln causes the scummy film to form. It's the copper oxide in the glass, that's all it is. If you reduce the Effetre copper colors too much, then you will get a metallic look and/or reds to come out.

Pepsi has more citric acid than Coke, so it works better. I learned that from my nursing days when the doctor told me to use Pepsi instead of Coke to unclog gastrostomy tubes.

[PurpleCatJewels]

Don't wast your time with Dr. Pepper…(just sayin')

In the kiln is when most of the copper oxides come out on mine too. I even use a slightly more oxygen flame and it looks nice initially, but my Effetre turquoises, copper greens, and violets need a little brightening afterward. Such pretty colors and such a shame they need extra steps.

For turquoise I'm switching to CIM Smurfy to see if that works with less surface film.

My first attempt at finding the mentioned products at the local (Kroger) grocery was a fail. I know I've seen at least one or two of them before, I just don't remember where.

[Lisi]

Oh, I'll mention the ratio again:

Snobol (or Toilet Duck) - Mix as 2 parts to 1 part of water. Keep in a plastic container, like a mayonnaise jar.

[houptdavid]

You need to look at the MSDS to see what is what

Toilet duck bowl cleaner is 1-5% Lactic Acid, 1-5% Fatty Alcohol Ethoxylate

Acidophilus milk is about 1% Lactic Acid

Church and Dwight Sno-bol is 10-20% Hydrochloric Acid, for the price just go to the hardware store and buy a qt of muratic acid

Navel Jelly is 10-30% Phosphoric acid

Most cola type sodas have Phosphoric acid/citric acid

Whink Rust stain remover is 2.5-3% Hydrofluoric acid And will etch some glass over time

Armor etch is 30-60% Ammonium bifluoride See... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_bifluoride

[Lyssa]

Ya'll are talking about a "greyish scum" on the turquoise beads, but I've never gotten that or even heard of it before now. Even when I used a Hot Head (which we all know reduces like a mofo). What I do get a lot of is the red marks on the turquoise.

[palmtreequeen]

I use silver jewelry cleaner that I buy at Wal-Mart, just let them soak, works super!!

[PurpleCatJewels]

Originally Posted by houptdavid

You need to look at the MSDS to see what is what

Absolutely! The MSDS has a wealth of information that is probably not good for the overly-paranoid to read. Safety, YES, common sense, ABSOLUTELY!

I was interested in the overall pH of the products. Glad it is listed in the MSDS because I can't find my damn litmus paper.

Interesting, but not all that helpful I guess:

Armour Etch: pH <1
Naval Jelly: 1.5–2.5
CLR: 2.10—2.30
Tarn-X .85–1.05
Muriatic Acid 3% solution .2

I was hoping for a much bigger difference. Must not be "acid" specifically.

You know, the CLR I bought is not specifically "toilet cleaner" although it cleaned the toilet. In fact, the instructions tell how it can be used to run through the coffeemaker to clean that. I'll still look for the aforementioned products and see if a "toilet cleaner" makes the difference.

[PurpleCatJewels]

Originally Posted by Lyssa

Ya'll are talking about a "greyish scum" on the turquoise beads, but I've never gotten that or even heard of it before now. Even when I used a Hot Head (which we all know reduces like a mofo). What I do get a lot of is the red marks on the turquoise.

Oh yeah, I got that too on the HH! I guess there is an interesting effect where you put intense black on a turquoise bead and run a reducing flame so the red appears intentionally and interacts with the intense black, but that's another topic.

Light turquoise always worked up better than dark turquoise. Dark turquoise gets a silver scum and boils if you look at it sideways! I also have a rod labeled Effetre "dark sky blue". Yeah, it's dark turquoise.

[Lisi]

Originally Posted by Lyssa

Ya'll are talking about a "greyish scum" on the turquoise beads, but I've never gotten that or even heard of it before now. Even when I used a Hot Head (which we all know reduces like a mofo). What I do get a lot of is the red marks on the turquoise.

You probably don't even realize it's there and that's because maybe you have never seen turquoise or copper green beads when they are cleaned up. Clean them up with the toilet bowl cleaner and they will be brighter.

If you got the red, then you went way past the scum stage.

[Lisi]

Originally Posted by houptdavid

You need to look at the MSDS to see what is what

Toilet duck bowl cleaner is 1-5% Lactic Acid, 1-5% Fatty Alcohol Ethoxylate

Acidophilus milk is about 1% Lactic Acid

Church and Dwight Sno-bol is 10-20% Hydrochloric Acid, for the price just go to the hardware store and buy a qt of muratic acid

Navel Jelly is 10-30% Phosphoric acid

Most cola type sodas have Phosphoric acid/citric acid

Whink Rust stain remover is 2.5-3% Hydrofluoric acid And will etch some glass over time

Armor etch is 30-60% Ammonium bifluoride See... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_bifluoride

Muriatic acid is nasty stuff and it makes fumes, and how much of it is the right amount to mix in water? I would rather use the Snobol as I have for nine years, and I never hurt my beads or myself with it.

[Kalera]

It's funny, I've always had great results with Coke; soaking at room temperature overnight (or less if I warm it slightly in the microwave) and colors clean right up. I don't know why other people don't get those results! I use it because it's easy, convenient and cheap (eighty cents) for a bottle that I keep in my fridge for ever; it still works when it's flat.

It absolutely will not work at all unless you let it get to room temp or warmer, though, so I wonder if some of the folks who couldn't get it to work were keeping the beads refrigerated while it soaked? And it has to be regular, diet doesn't do anything.

[nevadaglass]

just wanted to say thanks for these posts. Didnt even know there was anything you could do about grey scum until I read this.

I recently got a new Bravo and the first couple of beads I made using the red coppers, produced the most ugly grey metallic looking dots you have ever seen.
I was just going to use them as a ivory, grey and black dotted bead.

After reading this post, I threw them yesterday in a shot glass filled with Coca Cola and checked them this morning and those pewter looking grey dots are almost a turquoisy, sea foam green color again. I am going to leave them in for a few more hours.

Thank you!

Oh, And I too used at room temp.

[lpryde]

So, any chance that a lovely American beader would maybe become a 'de-scumifier' dealer to us Canadian beaders? lol. Instead of us buying 20 bottles of toilet bowl cleaner that don't descumify beads...and who cares if it cleans a toilet. Lol.
Also just for those keeping count, I did try the Lysol toilet bowl cleaner and while it did mess my manicure it didn't remove enough of the yuck for me.

[Eileen]

I'm one of the coke users