How to know when to say "Uncle"?

CSimi115 · #1 2011-01-31, 1:48pm

I'm been trying on and off for about 5 days to learn how to make beads. Not doing well at all. Don't exactly know what the problem is. How do I know if I'm not "cut out" for this?

Chris

chrissij · #2 2011-01-31, 1:53pm

5 days?!?!?! On and off for 5 days?!?!?!?

I'd say give yourself quite a bit more time. I'd suspect that each and every one of us pretty much sucked after 5 days.

artsyuno · #3 2011-01-31, 1:53pm

Are there any classes near you? I'd suggest taking a beginner class before giving up. A little instruction can save you a lot of time and frustration.

I still frequently suck after close to 4 years.

Flamin' Francesca · #4 2011-01-31, 2:15pm

If you can't get into a class, at the very least, get a video or DVD and watch someone else make a few beads. There are plenty of free demos on You Tube, and lots of DVDs are available from the major glass retailers. It's much easier if you have a visual reference rather than just a verbal one even if you consider yourself more of a verbal person. Five days is really not a lot of time to learn something this complex that involves hand skills, as well as aspects of materials science. Some folks are gifted and pick it up very quickly, but lots of others only get to where they want to be after lots of practice, classes, and some frustration.

Alaska · #5 2011-01-31, 2:17pm

Get a few good books on bead making. Watch videos on You Tube. See if there is a local lampworker that is willing to demo for you. And as suggested a class or two in your local area.

If you are using boro, use clear as it is less costly to use and PPP. i.e. things will start to come together after making a bunch of beads. Some say 1000! Others say less.

Kalera · #6 2011-01-31, 2:20pm

Making beads is hard; much harder than it looks. A very few people pick it up right away on their own without instruction or years of practice, but most people take a long time and a lot of practice to get good at it. One of the reasons for this is that it involves complex hand-eye coordination that is different for each hand, and it doesn't start to seem easy until you have done it for long enough for muscle memory to take over.

Taking a class will help shorten your learning curve a lot.

AmorphousDesigns · #7 2011-01-31, 2:28pm

The only time to cry "uncle" is when you finally see the guy after a long absence! Practice, practice, practice is the key, be patient with and kind to yourself. Ever watch a child learn to walk? they fall a lot, but keep getting back up.

CSimi115 · #8 2011-01-31, 2:32pm

I did a demo class and made 2 beads there. I've watched practically ever video on You tube and also I'm readin Corina Tettinger's book. Are there any other books you could recommend? Also, I'm using 3 different mandrel sizes (including 3/16). Should I stick to one size?

houptdavid · #9 2011-01-31, 2:46pm

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...=newbie+advice

5 days is nothing!

Slow down and realize that IT IS GOING TO TAKE TIME to get anywhere with this PERIOD!

artsyuno · #10 2011-01-31, 2:57pm

Cindy Jenkins has a couple of books out with good basic instructions. I'd suggest taking another class or two, though. A demo with two beads made is nothing. I took 3 one-day classes and two two-day classes before I had any chance of making an even bead and it still took a lot more practice before I could do anything decent with any consistency.

jamie lynne · #11 2011-01-31, 3:18pm

This isn't a pick it up and go hobby/craft. Your beads are going to suck at first. Then you will make one that you are proud of, and a year later you'll laugh at how it looks in comparison to what you can do with glass at that time... and so on. It's a progressive art. Each day making improvements.

Kalera · #12 2011-01-31, 3:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSimi115

I did a demo class and made 2 beads there. I've watched practically ever video on You tube and also I'm readin Corina Tettinger's book. Are there any other books you could recommend? Also, I'm using 3 different mandrel sizes (including 3/16). Should I stick to one size?

Good, you will get to skip a lot of the trial and error people go through when they don't have the benefit of having taken a class!

Now, all you have to do is practice, practice, practice.

I mean what I said about muscle memory. Right now most of your brain is engaged in thinking about holding the mandrel level and spinning it smoothly while manipulating the rod in your other hand. Until those actions become automatic, your brain really CAN'T process things like learning to control design elements. If you want to get good as fast as possible, make 100 plain round beads. By the time you're done, your body will know what to do, and you will be able... neurologically able... to shift gears and start playing around with decorating those beads. Pull 100 stringers, and then you can start to learn dots and fine heat control.

The only thing that can make you skilled with glass is understanding the glass with your body, not just your head. That means a lot of hours working glass. My rule of thumb, from observing people torchworking glass, is that they start to acquire basic proficiency after about 80 hours of torch time.

KarenBeth · #13 2011-01-31, 3:33pm

It took me about a year before I could even make the darn things round. It takes A LOT of practice.

Damselfly · #14 2011-01-31, 3:36pm

I'm going to give a different take on this.

It's time to call Uncle if:
- You don't love the process of making beads, which will include some failures.
- You can't deal with the disappointment of some beads not turning out like you thought
- You're unwilling or unable to practice for a lot of hours, which will include both time and glass
- You're only it in for the money, because it's expensive way to attempt to make money

KEW · #15 2011-01-31, 3:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damselfly

I'm going to give a different take on this.

It's time to call Uncle if:
- You don't love the process of making beads, which will include some failures.
- You can't deal with the disappointment of some beads not turning out like you thought
- You're unwilling or unable to practice for a lot of hours, which will include both time and glass
- You're only it in for the money, because it's expensive way to attempt to make money

This is concise.

If you aren't having fun, it's time to quit.

CSimi115 · #16 2011-01-31, 3:58pm

No I'm not in it to make money at all. I do stained glass and fusing and I've been holding off on lampworking. Now I took the leap. I WOULD love to be able to make a few Pandora type beads to give as gifts and to wear myself.

Polgarra · #17 2011-01-31, 4:28pm

Maybe you just want confirmation that it is ok to not be that great, it is ok. COme join the newbie thread in the gallery. There are people that just started (like me) and those that just occasionally torch.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=185549

There is a new one every few weeks. No one will look down on you as long as you are having fun and being safe.

dianeconroy · #18 2011-01-31, 4:38pm

The class if possible is a good idea, Corrina's book "Passing the Flame" is an awesome book, I love the step by step. Maybe you could post a picture of what you are getting so they can see what the problem is. It could be that you are expecting too much of yourself right away. I would first try to get a simple round bead. Then when you can get round beads consistently move on to trying dots. One thing at a time. My instructor always told me that I had to learn to walk before I could run... I wanted to run, now!
1st class and homework was learning (1 week) to get a round bead, boring but essential. Don't give up. If you were willing to tell us where you live maybe someone could help you find a class or someone willing to help.
Are you using a hot head? 104 glass rods?

Otter's Flame · #19 2011-01-31, 7:14pm

I agree that a class would help if it is an option. Reading books and watching videos are great learning tools however as Kalera has stressed. Practice is what you will HAVE to do. Time behind the torch is the only way to improve. 5 days is truly less than one millionth of a second compared to the time most people need to feel comfortable with their work.

I have a little experience and I still feel like a total hack. Someone once told me that I MUST start out with the focus of PROCESS of PRODUCT. That was all well and good but I wanted to make beads. However when this finally sunk in, it was a revelation that changed the way I make glass. It has taken me a long time to learn how much I do not know. Each time i change direction in glass, each time I re-visit an old technique, i fall back on process over product.

Their is a HUGE learning curve and more information, more muscle memory, more techniques to learn than you can even begin to contemplate. Learn the glass, what it does in the flame and what it will let you do right now. For me, the reward is beyond compare. I am very passionate about glass and it has given me more than I can ever even think of giving back in the way of teaching or contributing to the glass community. Good luck and do not be afraid to experiment. When things do not turn out as you wanted them to, that is not a failure but another lesson.

If I can be of any help feel free to contact me through PM.

PaulaD · #20 2011-01-31, 7:51pm

I agree with the benefits of a beginner class and the advice already given..
I suggest that instead of making beads you start off beaking stingers and then encased stringers to feel howhot glass moves. Also you may want to try boro as it moves slower. Clear should be fine to practice bead shaping. The single best advice that I have for a newbie to to keep your center cool and then it will be easier to get a shape. Also 1/8 inch mandrels might be easier to use to start with. The won't bend up as much when you take the beads off.

Kalera · #21 2011-02-01, 12:25am

If you think about it from the perspective of learning any art...

Is 5 days enough time to become proficient at oil painting?

Stone sculpting?

Clay sculpting?

Bronze work?

Goldsmithing?

artwhim · #22 2011-02-01, 1:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSimi115

I did a demo class and made 2 beads there. I've watched practically ever video on You tube and also I'm readin Corina Tettinger's book. Are there any other books you could recommend? Also, I'm using 3 different mandrel sizes (including 3/16). Should I stick to one size?

Yes, since you are already feeling frustrated, I would suggest sticking with one size mandrel. By using one size, you can concentrate on making a good footprint consistently and rotating the mandrel level and smoothly. Once you feel more comfortable with the process of making beads, then experiment with different mandrel sizes. By limiting yourself, it's one less variable.

The fact that this art form isn't easy, is part of the reason so many of us find it fascinating. Good luck and have fun!

Dragonharper · #23 2011-02-01, 4:05am

Everyone's advice is very good, you really need to have the passion in order to stick with ANY art form. Imagine walking into a music store, buying an electric guitar and expecting to play as well as Eric Clapton in one week. It's the passion that makes the artist.

BellaBean · #24 2011-02-01, 6:40am

Yep! What everyone else said. It is going to take time. Don't cry "uncle" just because your beads stink. Cry "uncle" if you can't stand torching.

Moth · #25 2011-02-01, 7:43am

Don't give up! 5 days is nothin' in this world.

Reading is great, demos are great but nothing and I mean NOTHING beats hands-on glass melting time.

I sucked for a year before I started making anything to be proud of and after 7 years I can still make sparkly glass cat turds on occasion.

Time and practice, time and practice. Oh...and lots of glass.

Don't throw in the towel unless you don't enjoy melting glass. Then it's time.

~~Mary

SassyGlass9 · #26 2011-02-01, 11:00am

One other thing that I don't think anyone has mentioned specifically yet...

For myself at least, I find that the bigger the mandrel, the harder it is to get a really good footprint (the base layers of glass for your bead). So, trying to use the Pandora size mandrels that you mentioned could very well be adding to your frustration.

I had been lampworking for well over two years before I decided to try my hand at the big hole (Pandora) beads. By then, I felt I was a strong intermediate in skill. Guess what? I felt like a rank beginner when I started trying to make big hole beads!! I had the hardest time getting an even footprint, my beads were turning out wonky and I was very frustrated.

The ONLY thing that allowed me to finally master making a decent big hole bead was - yep - practice, and lots of it!!!

If you enjoy working with glass, as you clearly do based on your comments, then don't give up! Just keep trying, but I would suggest using only one size mandrel (I would recommend 3/32) for quite a while until you feel more comfortable with how the glass moves, etc.

It really is a process, but it's a fascinating and rewarding one.

selma_belma · #27 2011-02-01, 1:22pm

I agree with everyone else. Practice is the way to go. It really does take time, and lots of practice at the torch. Five days is not enough to know if this is something you will enjoy doing. I remember the first class I took, and although my beads were pretty pathetic, I was still so excited about lampworking. I was determined to figure it out. I got on LE and read, and read. Then I got back on my torch and practiced. It took a little time, but eventually I started making some good beads. Then I experimented, and just had fun at the torch. Don't give up yet. Keep trying for a while longer.

I would definitely stick to one size of mandrel for the time being. Also, as was mentioned, it can be more difficult to use the pandora sized mandrels. It would be better for you to use those after you have the bead making skills to make a decent bead. As you are at the torch, pay attention to how the glass moves. Notice how certain colors react to others. There is so much to learn! One day, you will pick up the mandrel, and begin making a bead and it will all come together.You'll wonder why it was ever so difficult to make a round bead,. You'll be dang proud of that bead. And yet.....years from then you will think of that bead and laugh. You'll continue to improve as you make beads. I know I cringe when I see some of my early beads. I thought they were wonderful at the time. LOL. It's pretty cool now though to look at the beads I create and realize that "I" did that. It's an amazing feeling. So give yourself a chance to see if you'll enjoy beadmaking. It truly is a fantastic journey.

mandyjw · #28 2011-02-01, 1:37pm

Just stop looking at the beads you are making for their value as a finished project for a while. YOU made them. Look at them and think, what did I learn from making this bead? What did I improve upon?

Some advice I'm glad I did not take when I started out was to stick with the basics until I had them down pat. I used dichroic glass right off the bat and I made encased florals well before I could actually make the beads round. It kept me engaged with bead making, and gave me a jump on those techniques and at the same time I did manage to learn the technical stuff too. I don't think I had yet even figured out to get a bead off the mandrel within 5 days. Give it more time and if it doesn't start to get fun then you can drop it.

Carolyn M · #29 2011-02-01, 8:43pm

What are you trying to make? Round beads? because that's what you should be focusing on. Take one size of mandrel and make a round bead. then make another, and another. Then pull some stringer. Then use that stringer to make some dots. Then do whatever you want!

Actually i was pretty much like Mandy, I started to do complex stuff way before I should have, and I didn't really learn to make a bicone until a couple of years ago. Mind you I could use any press in the whole world!

Mitosis Glass · #30 2011-02-02, 7:27am

I felt like you at first. I remember watching people make beads and I also read some of the books and it looked so easy. Hah! It took me forever to get to a point where at least 50% of my kiln haul doesn't look like like crap.

Keep working at it and as Kalera said, your muscle memory takes awhile to develop so keep practicing.