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| Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2008-10-21, 10:59am
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Molten Designs
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Join Date: Sep 01, 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 52
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putting core in pandora beads
what is the easiest and cheapest way to do it and what mandrel size do I need?
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2008-10-21, 11:25am
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traumaqueen
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2005
Location: Utrecht, a town in The Netherlands, close to amsterdam
Posts: 5,838
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try using the search button, there are quite a few threads regarding this subject 
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2008-10-21, 11:33am
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ManBearPig
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Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 8,540
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Easiest way is to glue the little inserts into the bead. The best looking way to do it, in my opinion, is to take silver tubing and use some dapping punches to flare it out on both sides to match the bead hole.
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2008-10-23, 6:12am
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Mary Lockwood
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Join Date: Jun 21, 2005
Location: Boonies
Posts: 5,831
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Hi and welcome to LE! 
Suzanne is right, there is a lot of really great information here about silver coring beads. It's what got me going to do it!
Here is a link to some great threads:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/se...archid=2580900
Have fun!
~~Mary
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2010-07-14, 4:18pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jul 14, 2010
Posts: 11
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The above link to coring threads doesn't seem to work. I'm brand new here and hope to get information on where to buy cheap, plated bead inserts in bulk, preferably wholesale. When I get going, I'd go through a package or two of 20 pc inserts in a day. I will glue them in, but haven't found an outlet to buy them in bulk yet.
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2010-07-14, 4:57pm
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Sorry for party rockin'
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Join Date: Oct 06, 2005
Location: Lewisville, TX
Posts: 3,456
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Ginny
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2010-07-14, 5:55pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jul 14, 2010
Posts: 11
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Ginny, if that was a response to the question about where to purchase bead inserts, it wasn't an answer since you don't sell them, or is this site just a place where people promote their commercial sites?
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2010-07-14, 6:48pm
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I speak Murrini!
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Join Date: Oct 12, 2006
Location: In a Glass House, CA
Posts: 9,170
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Hum...interesting comment to Jenny there DJT - not quite sure what 'cha meant!
In any case, just to clarify, this site is a friendly forum where glass oriented artists, as well as other creative types (hence the "Etc." in "Lampwork, Etc.") get together, discuss, share, learn, teach one another, and generally interact to further develop their skills, make friends and share information.
It's nice of you to join us. We are like a family here and are always interested in hearing about new members, their interests and experience (even if they're new to the art of lampwork).
On the flip side, if you are looking for a place to locate "cheap" plated coring inserts for mass production to turn over product in a hurry, this may not be the right place for 'ya. You might want to check eBay or do a Google Search to see what you can get on an imported scale.
The work you'll see here is the end product of skill and practice, so you'll probably be encouraged to learn to do coring the slow, technical way using silver tube and either dapping punches or a small machine such as the Jim Moore Press http://www.toolsforglass.com/catalog...beadpress.html or the Impress Tool made by Art in the Round http://www.artintheround.com/categor...d-Supplies.htm.
There are "insert" alternatives, of course, but the ones that are used by higher end, professional lampworkers are not going to be plated cheap stuff; you can find very nice, long lasting sterling silver "glue in" rivets at a few vendors, some of which may be found in the "Vendor's List" Section here: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3538
Hope you find what you're looking for.
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2010-07-15, 7:04am
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Me Ke Aloha Pumehana
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Join Date: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 5,644
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That was a very gracious and informative answer, De! Thank you!
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2010-07-15, 2:28pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jul 14, 2010
Posts: 11
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"On the flip side, if you are looking for a place to locate "cheap" plated coring inserts for mass production to turn over product in a hurry, this may not be the right place for 'ya. You might want to check eBay or do a Google Search to see what you can get on an imported scale."
Mass production? --of hand fired, individually designed glass beads? Hardly. I've done copper enamel beads for decades, since the late 1960's or early 1970's, and want to switch to lampwork so I can do more sculptural-type beads, but right now, I have about 400 beads made over the last several months for my daughter, who will be selling at shows this fall. They all have big holes, but some will exactly fit the Pandora-style bead inserts. I just can't afford to go with sterling or to buy the equipment to make my own from silver tubes at this point.
I had no idea where to get the inserts or even sterling tubes, and joined this site to get some help in finding materials, learning how to use them, and making the switch from copper core beads to solid glass lampwork, but when a person asks a question and another person "answers" with a link to a commercial site, with no products in question answered there, it raises some questions about what this site is about, although I looked at some demonstrations and tutorials and found them to be very helpful. I have a degree in art, and do serious bead designing--not something "mass produced" so that whole business was rather offensive, unless it is common practice here to insult people with limited financial resources (I'm disabled) for tying to find inexpensive substitutes to begin with. If a switch to Pandora style beads changes that situation, I'll be thrilled to purchase equipment to make my own cores, and use SS tubing, which goes better with the hand-crafted concept, but it isn't feasable at this time.
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2010-07-15, 3:02pm
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Experimentalist
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Join Date: Nov 15, 2005
Location: Penryn, California
Posts: 6,758
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I think part of the response here may be something that can help you in the long run... if you use cheap (your word) components on your nice lampwork beads, you WILL be competing with mass-produced imports who get pennies for their beads. Maybe not the route you want.
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2010-07-15, 3:03pm
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Dangerous Woman
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Join Date: Nov 21, 2005
Location: Southcentral PA
Posts: 5,018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricklend
what is the easiest and cheapest way to do it and what mandrel size do I need?
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If you already have 400 made why are you asking what size mandrel you need?
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Nancy
May your torch burn brightly and your oxy never run out. - Karen Hardy
On a Cheetah with a hurricane Still have my Lynx as a back up.
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2010-07-15, 3:17pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
Location: Duh, Squidville
Posts: 9,523
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two different people
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Cricket w/two 5 lpm oxycons - and sometimes a Minor.
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2010-07-15, 4:43pm
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I speak Murrini!
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Join Date: Oct 12, 2006
Location: In a Glass House, CA
Posts: 9,170
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Well, DJT, ain't that sumptin'! Frankly, if you took offense to my use of the word "cheap" please go back and look at your post #11 here, as I was simply quoting YOU!  Clearly if you want to play semantics into the equation, maybe a better term to use (so as not to imply that you might be just as happy with imported inserts) would have been "inexpensive" or my personal favorite, "frugal".
As far as it being "common practice here to insult people with limited financial resources (I'm disabled) for tying to find inexpensive substitutes to begin with." (again your words, not mine!), well now it's MY TURN to be offended!  Slightly Svengali I may sometimes be; somehow clairvoyantly determining that you are disabled and the fact that you might have a limited income, I'm afraid, is far beyond my mind-reading powers, though. 
All joking aside, we are a good bunch here, as you may come to learn if you recognize there are certain ways for new members to familiarize themselves with the group, approach us regarding questions and asking for assistance, etc. Without taking further offense, DJT, please consider taking a few moments to check out this thread, since you are new to our board: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=109283 It will give 'ya lots of tips on how to make future inquires. 
Honestly, if you just look around a bit you can find some very well made, quality Sterling Silver inserts such as these which are not only available in "bulk" but will add significant value to your end product on behalf of your lovingly-creating lampwork as well as your daughter's time and show space finances invested to resell them. Check these out: http://www.etsy.com/listing/51211717...grommet-eyelet Not bad, don't 'cha think? I mean really...$37.00 invested, including ship, to purchase enough inserts to finish 50 beads (which I'm sure you can resell for much more than "plated" inserts) may not be as bad of an out-of-pocket expense as you might have thought it would be!
And to get back to what Brickland originally asked, if you are thinking of using inserts as well (directed to the original poster), you may have to do a bit of searching around here on LE as well as a bit of experimenting with your mandrels, how much release you use (which will impact EXACTLY how big the resulting hole ends up being), and so on. Doing a general search here using the terms "coring" and "pandora" together (i.e., type "coring pandora" into the search box) will give you lots of good threads to check out. 
My best suggestion would be to try some 3/16" mandrels, double dip them in slightly thinned bead release, and check the hole size of the resulting bead. You'll probably find that the rivets available from the link I posted above will fit just about perfectly!
Best of luck to both of you!
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2010-07-15, 4:54pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
Location: Duh, Squidville
Posts: 9,523
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and just FYI, sniping at people is not a way to persuade people to do your research for you.
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DOG is my co-pilot
Cricket w/two 5 lpm oxycons - and sometimes a Minor.
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2010-07-15, 5:02pm
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I speak Murrini!
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Join Date: Oct 12, 2006
Location: In a Glass House, CA
Posts: 9,170
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Ain't is so, my darling Squid...
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~DeAnne~
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2010-07-15, 5:23pm
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da General
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theglasszone
Honestly, if you just look around a bit you can find some very well made, quality Sterling Silver inserts such as these which are not only available in "bulk" but will add significant value to your end product on behalf of your lovingly-creating lampwork as well as your daughter's time and show space finances invested to resell them. Check these out: http://www.etsy.com/listing/51211717...grommet-eyelet Not bad, don't 'cha think? I mean really...$37.00 invested, including ship, to purchase enough inserts to finish 50 beads (which I'm sure you can resell for much more than "plated" inserts) may not be as bad of an out-of-pocket expense as you might have thought it would be!
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De, something doesn't add up here. Description in the link you posted:
"Hole Size: 5mm
Sample picture of the lampwork beads are capped with the rivets, mandrel used are 3/16" diameter."
3/16" is 4.7625mm. For the hole to be 5mm, it would mean that the wall of the rivet is 5mm-4.7625mm / 2 which equals 0.06mm thick!
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Hayley
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2010-07-15, 5:25pm
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da General
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,002
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The ONLY way to use a 3/16" mandrel and still add rivets/coring is using the tubing from Indian Jewelry Supply - custom made (arranged by our own Debbi/ginkodesigns) which is 5.08mm tubing with 4.37mm hole with the thickness being 27 gauge/0.1775mm
Pandora chain is 4.2mm thick and Biagi is 4.1mm
The BHB exchange I am running in the Patio section contains lots of good information and tips on coring.
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Hayley
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2010-07-15, 8:29pm
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I speak Murrini!
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Join Date: Oct 12, 2006
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Hayley...
Since I'm exhausted and practically catatonic at the moment, can you spare me trying to do the math and tell me - are these rivets too large or too small for 3/16" mandrel made beads?
Sorry! I'm getting ready to travel early in the a.m. and my mind is mush! 
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2010-07-15, 8:41pm
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Formerly FishBulb
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I'll also mention that if you are trying to do coring on a budget, you can also do it with copper tubing. Brass is also possible but I don't know how good it'll look.
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2010-07-15, 8:41pm
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da General
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2006
Location: San Francisco
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I don't know, De! lol!
Two possibilities here:
If the rivets do indeed have 5mm holes, then they are too large for 3/16" mandrels.
If the beads were indeed made on 3/16" mandrels, then the holes cannot be 5mm . . . probably 4mm or smaller which will fit Troll chains but not Pandora.
In other word, it's physically impossible to have 5mm hole AND fit perfectly in beads made on 3/16" mandrels.
Hope that makes sense!
ETA: bead made on 3/16" mandrels will have holes that are about 5mm.. . thus my guess is that the OD (outside diameter) of those rivets are 5mm while the ID (inside diameter) is much less.
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2010-07-15, 8:42pm
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Formerly FishBulb
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I just noticed this thread was started in 2008. Wonder if the OP ever got their answer!
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2010-07-15, 8:44pm
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da General
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I think this thread is more about DJT than the OP, Angie!
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2010-07-15, 9:06pm
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I speak Murrini!
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Join Date: Oct 12, 2006
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Okie...I did some ass backwards checking. It's sort of a "Colombo" style of research, but often interesting results ensue! 
So.....First I checked this particular rivet seller's feedback on Etsy! Close to 1000 sales since June of '07; approximately 574 posts and all equate to 100%!
Checking further, I saw many buyers of these rivets from this seller, and there were some familiar names amongst them as well (which I ain't gonna drop - you go see for yourself! )
Of those rivet buyers, I roughly checked who actually had some of them in use and applied to current beads for sale in their shops. I took the first several I found as examples; I searched for ones that appear to definitely have the "rivet" versus a possible "tube" core showing from a side view photo of the product for sale.
Here's a nice example: http://www.etsy.com/listing/51611657...g-silver-large
And another:
http://www.etsy.com/listing/45189226...-lampwork-bead
And another:
http://www.etsy.com/listing/50188197...loral-lampwork
I suspect that even if the rivets are a bit loose/sloppy fitting when inserted to test 'em, once glued in, they're a pretty good fit.
If it were me (I have the yet-to-be-tried Impress, so I don't do the rivet thing! ) and I were considering buying a quantity of these or any other rivets for ease-of-use and cost control, I'd contact the seller and just be SURE of the mandrel size, the release thickness, etc.
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2010-07-15, 9:08pm
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I speak Murrini!
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Join Date: Oct 12, 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyric0561
That was a very gracious and informative answer, De! Thank you!
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Oh, and thank you for that nice comment! 
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~DeAnne~
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2010-07-15, 10:03pm
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Dangerous Woman
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Join Date: Nov 21, 2005
Location: Southcentral PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squid
two different people |
Duh! Didn't even notice! Thanks. All this math is making my brain hurt.  I have rivit and tubing but I can't seem to make the holes big enough for either.
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Nancy
May your torch burn brightly and your oxy never run out. - Karen Hardy
On a Cheetah with a hurricane Still have my Lynx as a back up.
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