Best Glass for Newbies

Jazarra · #1 2011-07-12, 11:49am

Ok so glass semms to be the most confusing for me. I will be starting with 104 because I am using a HH but I need to buy some glass and don't know what is best to start with . My instructor suggested I stay away from silver glass, and DH, Tag ,but these are all the pretties I want to try : ( So what should I start with ? How is CIM for beginners? I know most say the moretti is best to start but I am ready to go,LOL I am so confused as usual ,lol

Roo Blaty · #2 2011-07-12, 11:58am

I used TAG and DH on my HH and got some really pretty results.

You have to cover the holes with foil (use an OveGlove or similar hot pad/glove) to reduce the oxygen. I even did Amy's Storm Beads with my HH.

I did NOT have good results with Rubino but I know some people HAVE used it on a HH.

Ivory is nice and soft. And you can get other glass to react with it and have some VERY interesting results.

I think I tried all sorts of stuff. (all 104) No one told me not to, so I had lots of "experimental" beads!

Just try what you want and have fun!

SuzyQ · #3 2011-07-12, 12:17pm

This is one of those questions that has a lot of answers. I know many of us didn't actually take the time to figure out what would be easy, we just picked what we liked. If money were an issue I would suggest starting out with machine made effetre and vetrofond colors. Basically the cheapest ones at any given glass shop. Most are pretty easy to work and you can find a nice selection of colors. I would add in the more expensive colors as my budget allowed. For a long time harder to work colors will teach you things about glass and make it pretty exciting. Heck, I still get excited about new colors

Jazarra · #4 2011-07-12, 12:20pm

I am hoping for as many answers as possible along with tips for working the types of glass on a HH torch : ) So keep em coming ,LOL I am taking notes

lldesigns · #5 2011-07-12, 12:22pm

The important thing to remember is COE not so much the different glass companies. Whatever you end up getting make sure it's all the same COE.

That said decide on some color combos you want to try and start there. Add the more expensive silver glass only after you are comfortable with the regular glass!

2tumblingdragonz · #6 2011-07-12, 12:25pm

I used BE on my HH while I was waiting to bring my 104 coe that had been in storage unused for 4 years. Nobody had told me BE was difficult on a HH so I just did it. when I got to melt 104 after the BE, it was so much easier and flowed so much better. I had the control though that I had learned because of the BE.
I have not had any issues with any glass on the HH. It's said white is easy because it is very soft and because it goes clear at it's hottest you can learn to read the heat base. I find that doesn't help me read the heat base. It can show you how long it takes for the glass to heat up and cool down so there are lessons there.
I'd say practice on the cheaper glass but then use what you want. ya may as well learn to work with what you like. There's no waste, really, each bead teaches you something and in my opinion, they are all pretty to look at, fun to hold, even if the ends are sharp or uneven, I'm so in love with glass that it all looks pretty to me. I collected jars and jars of marbles as soon as I first saw a marble. I just love small coloured glass blobs.
Now, I saw you posted that you won't have proper ventilation right away, so I would not suggest using alot of silver glass unless you are somewhere with proper ventilation.
Just have fun....Lauscha is a great glass, it can be more forgiving and if annealed properly does not have compatibility issues. What I did is I got some of everything...and honestly, my head is still spinning 6 months later.
In short--ha ha ha--I'm a do what you want find out for myself type--I ask a ton of questions and then go for it.
I hope that helps some.
namaste
Rowyn

Jazarra · #7 2011-07-12, 12:28pm

I know about keeping it the same coe . But I am not sure about the different types/brands of glass. Why do I need to wait to use these other glasses are they really that difficult? I also like the Reichenbach Glass but know nothing about it ...sigh

SuzyQ · #8 2011-07-12, 12:33pm

Yes silver glass can be difficult. Using a hot head makes it even more difficult. Add that to the cost of it compared to other glass and most experienced beadmakers are going to suggest you wait. Do you have to? NO! But be prepared for some frustration

Reichenbach is gorgeous glass. Try some of the mystic shades in 104. They get pearly looking like shampoo.

Jazarra · #9 2011-07-12, 12:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzyQ

Yes silver glass can be difficult. Using a hot head makes it even more difficult. Add that to the cost of it compared to other glass and most experienced beadmakers are going to suggest you wait. Do you have to? NO! But be prepared for some frustration

Reichenbach is gorgeous glass. Try some of the mystic shades in 104. They get pearly looking like shampoo.

Oh the colors are all so beautiful... so are these easy to start with on a HH in your opinion ? do the list them as mystic shades also?

SuzyQ · #10 2011-07-12, 12:39pm

They do say mystic in the title. I don't find them hard to work. I work oxygen heavy so be sure to keep them high in the flame and you should be just fine. Get the pink and you can thank me later

GlassGalore · #11 2011-07-12, 12:58pm

It is possible to get good results from Reducing Silver Glass on a HH, or even silver glasses which both Reduce and Strike. But you are probably best to avoid just Striking Silver glasses while on a HH. Striking requires a level of heat that a HH just can't manage. A 'seasoned' lampworker can perhaps coax color out of striking silver glass on a HH, but it's likely to set a beginner up for frustration and expensive 'wasted' glass.

The main 3 brands of 104 (Effetre, CIM and Vetrofond) are an excellent place to start and for the most part, they work nicely with each other.

sweetiedog · #12 2011-07-12, 1:10pm

I guess it just depends on how much of a "newbie" you are? If you already have your heat control, shaping, encasing, etc basic skills down and want to jump right into exploring color then just go for it and buy what intrigues you. If you are really new and truly just learning, then start with the tried and true and inexpensive glasses until you feel really comfortable in the flame.

When I first started out on a HH torch I found it easiest to work with good old Effetre and picked up a couple sampler packs to play with different colors before I started ordering anything in massive quantities. I think quite a few glass vendors offer sample packs. Its a great way to have some color to play with before making a big committment on a color you end up not liking.

DarkFlowerBead · #13 2011-07-12, 1:46pm

I'm not sure if I should chime in here because i only used a HH for less than a month before i decided that for me personally I fell in love with the color changing silver glass. I know it can be done on a HH but not by me. I'd suggest if at all possible find a local studio to rent "torch time" and save the silver glass for the times you know you can get an oxygenated torch. I ended up enjoying the hour drive to a local studio and booked it as "me time" even just twice a month. I finally saved up and now I have my own studio in my house. I personally do not think i could have overcome some of the frustrations inherent in the HH to stay at it as long as I have. Good luck to those who do

Cara

Mountain Snail · #14 2011-07-12, 2:11pm

I would actually just get a nice selection of basics. Black, white, IVORY (I love ivory) and some colors you want to try. Use that up and then you will know more what your style is and what colors you need for that style. I would buy effetre, cim, and vetrofond for starts. I wouldn't mess with the silver glasses just yet.

lldesigns · #15 2011-07-12, 2:19pm

I wasted a huge amount of time and money on silver glass when I first started out. Add to that the frustration level of not being able to make the glass do any of the 'magic' I was seeing in other people's work and that is why I recommend waiting. If money isn't an issue, go for it.

Other than the COE issue the differences in glass mostly have to do with stiffness, shockiness, clarity, bubbling, striking, devit, and other terms that you will experience as you work with the glass.

tammydownunder · #16 2011-07-12, 4:26pm

Learning how to melt glass that is shocky is about the same as learning to fly a plane in a 747 or drive a car in a formula one car.

Save the pricey silver glass until you are consistently making quality beads that don't thermal crack. You need to know how much heat you need to keep the bead intact, how to have nice dimpled ends and eliminate the chill marks.

Furthermore, I don't care how cheap the glass is, as it is a total false economy. If I can make 30 spacers with a rod of $2 glass from effetre or 3 spacers with a rod of $1 shocky glass, tell me what is cheaper? Plus, if I'm going to make a bead that takes 1 + hours, is there any way I'm going to risk it on a glass that might have some devitrification and compatibility issues?

Jazarra · #17 2011-07-12, 4:32pm

well I will def wait on the silver glass , but what about that nice Reichenbach or DH ? Or is the DH silver glass? uugh does anyone know where I can get a book on just all this confusing glass ? : )

GlassGalore · #18 2011-07-12, 4:43pm

DH (Double Helix) is one of the silver glass makers. You can use Reichenbach 104 with Effetre, CIM 104 and Vetrofond glasses. Just make sure to get the Reichenbach 104 because they also make 96 COE, which can only be used with 104 in small amounts like frit, for example.

Eileen · #19 2011-07-12, 4:46pm

DH is silver.
I would say go through a vendor's glass list & buy some black, white, ivory, clear, and then pick yourself out some of the less expensive colors (on sale even better!) to play with for your first order.
I'm still learning consistent rounds, and beginning to play with other shapes to get to the point that I don't have have as many "oops, now what?" moments with shaping, so I'm using glass that isn't too pricey. I almost wish I'd bought some I didn't like too much, as then I wouldn't mind making 100 beads out of it just to practice shapes without worrying about color too.

Jazarra · #20 2011-07-12, 4:46pm

Ok Thanks so NO DH just yet? LOL got it ..... I think

Eileen · #21 2011-07-12, 4:48pm

Thinking about that ~ I'd not enjoy making those 100 beads as much as I enjoy every one different, but I think I'd learn faster.

Jazarra · #22 2011-07-12, 4:48pm

well lucky for me I picked up the making of the round shape pretty quick at my 1st class last week so this week I am going to work on????? I don't know any suggestions for what I should learn next , I am already bored with practicing the round bead : )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eileen

DH is silver.
I would say go through a vendor's glass list & buy some black, white, ivory, clear, and then pick yourself out some of the less expensive colors (on sale even better!) to play with for your first order.
I'm still learning consistent rounds, and beginning to play with other shapes to get to the point that I don't have have as many "oops, now what?" moments with shaping, so I'm using glass that isn't too pricey. I almost wish I'd bought some I didn't like too much, as then I wouldn't mind making 100 beads out of it just to practice shapes without worrying about color too.

GlassGalore · #23 2011-07-12, 4:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazarra

well lucky for me I picked up the making of the round shape pretty quick at my 1st class last week so this week I am going to work on????? I don't know any suggestions for what I should learn next , I am already bored with practicing the round bead : )

Shaping the glass into different shapes with a marver (barrel, bicone, oval etc). And pulling and applying stringer. Way challenging!

SuzyQ · #24 2011-07-12, 4:53pm

What kinds of beads make you swoon? We can help you break down the skills you need and give you ideas of what to make while perfecting those skills.

I would play with dots on those beads. Get good at making them all the same size. Find out what colors do with each other.

Eileen · #25 2011-07-12, 4:55pm

I can make round, but the hole is not always exactly centered looked at from the end, and sometimes it gets away from me and it's thicker on one side or something, so I can't say with authority that my beads are always perfect yet... don't know if anyone has no oopsies, but I know most have very few if any, LOL, and I want to get there!
(But yes, I get bored, so I play with color, or brass frit, etc while I'm doing it)

Jazarra · #26 2011-07-12, 4:56pm

already did the pulling and applying stringer also did dots and frits : ) but yes I was thinking about maybe a barrel shape or learning to use some of those awesome tools : ) I think I am going to make my next class a 4 hr. class instead of 3 , Oh happy day !! LOl

Jazarra · #27 2011-07-12, 5:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzyQ

What kinds of beads make you swoon? We can help you break down the skills you need and give you ideas of what to make while perfecting those skills.

I would play with dots on those beads. Get good at making them all the same size. Find out what colors do with each other.

well I love frit and those really organic looking beads and I love the silver : )and DH lookking colors ! s igh it seems I just want to get ahead of myself LOL

Eileen · #28 2011-07-12, 5:02pm

Did you do all the various techniques using dots?
How intricate can you get using stringer?
I'm going to go sit in the corner & cry if you've mastered those in your first session, but way to go if you have!!!

Maybe you'll be one of the ones that does great at making critters, hearts, & other sculpture type beads, or hollows? I've tried a few simple sculptures, but my only hollow try I forgot to keep the first disc warm & made frit, LOL!

SuzyQ · #29 2011-07-12, 5:05pm

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say you don't have great ventilation? If you don't I wouldn't mess with silver and silver glass just yet.

I can only guess stringer just doesn't float your boat. Because if it did you could spend your lifetime working on it, lol.

SuzyQ · #30 2011-07-12, 5:07pm

lol Eileen. I'll get in that corner with you

Hollows were my nightmare. I wanted to do them so badly when I started. I was such a failure at them for years. And then a couple years ago a friend came to visit and we made ourselves learn to make them. Some people just get it with glass and then there are those of us that work like a dog for every stinkin' skill