Kiln Help!

[MyHandmadeStuff]

Hi Everyone!


I purchased a Chili Pepper Bead Annealer Kiln - here is a link to the kiln I purchased:

http://www.delphiglass.com/index.cfm...emsysid=179749

I finally unpackaged the kiln... and the materials enclosed are sparse, not much information on temps or anything!

After tons of glass and tons of beads - I finally have a few that I would like to anneal.


I just found this thread:

Originally Posted by MikeAurelius

You can't use natural gas with the Hot Head (or Fireworks) torch - those torches need full tank pressure (100 pounds per square inch and more).

Household natural gas is about 1/4 to 1/3 PSI, which is fine for working with a Nortel Minor or equivalent (and you will also need a source of oxygen with this torch as well).

Annealing - you aren't annealing with the skillet/vermiculite - you are only preventing heat shock. All beads, if you plan on selling them (or even giving them away) should be annealed - it removes the stress caused by shaping the bead, and prevents future breakage.

Batch annealing is taking the beads from room temperature up to annealing point, holding them there for a period of time, lowering them slowly to the strain point and then back to room temperature.

End of day annealing is putting beads mostly straight from the flame into a hot kiln and then annealing when the session is over.

For batch annealing, a cycle looks like this:

Ramp from room temp to 960 F over 2 hours.
Hold 960 F for 1 hour 30 minutes.
Ramp from 960 to 850 over 2 hours.
Hold at 850 for 10 minutes.
Ramp from 850 to room temperature over 2 hours (this is essentially turning off the kiln - most firebrick kilns have enough thermal mass to slowly lower the temperature the rest of the way without further manual or automatic control).

For end of session annealing (assume kiln is at 900 F)

Ramp from 900 F to 960 F over 10 minutes
Hold 960 F for 1 hour 30 minutes
follow the rest of the cycle noted above

You can do either method - if you batch anneal, you may have a slightly higher breakage rate from heat shock than if you put the hot bead into a hot kiln.

If you have a kiln, my suggestion would be to use it for an end-of-session annealing process.

Ok - here I go to PLUG IT IN... lol - and find some REALLY UGLY beads and see if they melt/explode!

Sincerely,
Sabine

*edited to reflect info I found

[bhhco]

TIP
The two bead annealing processes that are used are "Garaging" and "Batch".

In garaging, the kiln is already on and you put your bead in immediately after you finish it in the flame.

In batch, you place your cold beads in the kiln and ramp it up to annealing temperature. Assuming there are no thermal cracks in the beads before they went in (but usually there are a few - sometimes it's not visible), they will come out later, whole and annealed. If not, they were stress cracked before they went in - annealing will not "heal" a bead.

I mention this because... the annealing schedule for garaging is different than the batch schedule.

The batch schedule goes up slowly, then soaks (anneals), then automatically comes down. The garage schedule goes up fast, and soaks... and soaks... and stays there until you tell it to ramp down.

The ramp up timing, and soak time is different for garage and batch. All temperatures and the ramp down timing is the same. Usually.

You will see a lot of different schedules. Mine is the only right schedule schedule (That's a joke). There are a lot of different schedules that will all work.

It's kinda like skiing... if you try to climb up the hill too fast you might break your leg. Same thing coming down. You do have to get up high enough to make the run worthwhile - but too high's not good either. And everyone has a speed that works for them.

Me
p.s. good searching.

[MyHandmadeStuff]

Hi!

Thank you very much for your response!

The good news is I have figured out the controller and how it works! AND I have many different ugly beads laying in the kiln patiently waiting (are beads patient? lol)...

BUT, I am still trying to determine how to "BATCH" anneal. There seems to be many variances on temperatures - ie. how fast/slow to ramp up to the MAGIC X temperature... how long to hold at X MAGIC temperature... and then how fast/slow to ramp down AND to what SAFE Y MAGIC temperature...

Once I can get some averages that seem close I will attempt it... ha ha

Something I have not seen anywhere is the TOTAL amount of time spent to batch anneal. Is it several hours, is it a day? Because when I look at all the different information out there and do some calculations some seem to be finished in a few hours while others are taking 12 hours. hmmmm???

I think I have to wait until tomorrow (Monday) and call Delphi and see what their recommendations are (this is where I bought the Kiln and took my class). Then I will take their information and compare it with all of my notes!

Also, since I am new - I have about 1 good bead out of 20 or so... to garage at this point would be a real waste of electricity for me. So for now I have to batch - which will probably be about once a month... lol - I think once each bead is good, then I will garage! (love those new terms, thank you!) I hate to think of all that 960 degree electricity being wasted for a few good beads! ha ha

Sincerely,
Sabine

[MyHandmadeStuff]

Hi Everyone!

In case anyone is interested I thought I would post the results of my conversation with Delphi today - located in Lansing - this is where I took my class and purchased the kiln (see above message for kiln link) - and I was provided with the following information in regard to BATCH annealing my beads:

Please note all degree measurements are in Fahrenheit.

For small beads (1/2"):
Ramp up at a rate of 500 deg per hour until 980 deg is reached
Hold/Soak at the 980 deg for 5 minutes
Ramp down at a rate of 300 deg per hour to 670 deg.

For medium beads (1"):
Ramp up at a rate of 400 deg per hour until 980 deg is reached
Hold/Soak at the 980 deg for 10 minutes
Ramp down at a rate of 150 deg per hour to 670 deg.

For large beads (2"):
Ramp up at a rate of 400 deg per hour until 980 deg is reached
Hold/Soak at the 980 deg for 20 minutes
Ramp down at a rate of 100 deg per hour to 670 deg.

Once the temperature of 670 deg has been reached the bead is "safe" for removal and I was told to let everything cool naturally to room temp, they recommended letting it sit overnight and removing beads in morning.

I inquired about the 980 deg soak temp vs. the 960 deg soak temp I read about, and was told that kilns have some margin of error and that 980 deg soak is what they recommend with this kiln, and it would be a safe temperature in case of temp variances in this kiln.

So there you have it!

When I get home tonight, I will anneal my ugly beads, at the Large Bead setting because some got big and I want to run a test on the big beads (lol)- I will take a before and after picture - for us to laugh at... and post them tomorrow evening (Tuesday night) - so check back if you want to see what happens with this program and to my beads!

Till then!
Sincerely,
Sabine

[MyHandmadeStuff]

Hi !!

All seems well with my first attempt at using my annealer. I ran a test run on some VERY UGLY beads (go ahead and laugh, we are!) ...

Here is a picture of them prior to annealing, sorry it is so dark!



AND here is a picture after annealing, a bit dark again - sorry!



Nothing blew up, nothing melted... YIPEE!!

Should I be seeing any differences in the beads? hmmm....

Thanks!
Sabine

[kk5336]

Hi Sabine, I have a Chilli Pepper that I purchased a few months ago and was lost on how to program it. I read alot threads on how to program it and was also amazed, like you of the variations of times. I took the most of the information and then just kind of took averages. So, thanks for the information. Your going to find that this baby doesn't use up hardly any electricity....I love it! As I've started to garage, I'm just using averages again and was wondering if they told you what the proper temps and times for garaging was...any help you can give would be appreciated.

Kathie

[MyHandmadeStuff]

Hi Kathie,

I am happy to hear that the kiln will not use a *ton* of electricity!

For GARAGING, I was told:

Turn on Kiln, use the FULL option, this will heat it up as fast as possible to the 980 deg (same temp) - put bead in kiln once this temp is reached, bead should still have a red glow inside - about a 10 second delay from flame to kiln - lay in kiln and keep on lampworking... when finished lampworking, close the door and continue with the program as above. (This could be a good option to keep my outdoor studio toasty in the winter? lmao)!!

That's it!!

Hope this helps!
Sincerely,
Sabine

[kk5336]

Thanks Sabine for the information...I will have to make some minor adjustments. I had read several threads that 980 might be too hot...depends if your kiln run a little warmer...so I've kind of split the difference of the range. So far I have not had any trouble with any of my beads cracking, just a few Bullseye beads a few days later, but I think I read something that Bullseye need to be put into the kiln glowing hot.

You'll be surprised that not only does it not eat up much electricity, but the outside doesn't get real hot.

Thanks again for the information...I hope you enjoy yours as much as I love mine.

Kathie
Good Omen Designs

[MyHandmadeStuff]

Hi Kathie,

So far, so good - I have run two *batch* sessions - at the 980 deg; nothing got deformed or melted or anything. I happened to be sitting by the kiln the whole time, and noticed that during the *soak* time, the temp display did vary - going as high as 983 deg and as low as 970 deg. So, even though it was programmed to stay at 980 deg, it did vary - maybe this is what Delphi was referring to? I am thinking that these variances are acceptable, and I think that each kiln - even same brand - will have variances - that's probably why we discovered so many different programs!

So far, I love the kiln - very EASY to use and it has a ton of room! Once I make enough good beads each session, I will do the garaging method - I can't wait...

Take care and thanks alot for your input!!

Sincerely,
Sabine

[PaulaD]

Jen-Ken was sendiong out really clear instructions as to how to program with the Annealers. That is strange that you didn't get anything. Anyway I have 3 of them for the studio. I use the Inspiration Tool Chili Pepper Rack to get the beads up off the floor (while they are still on the mandrels) and it works well!
Paula

[MyHandmadeStuff]

Hi Paula,

Thank you for the tip on the rack! I will do a *Google* and try to find one, maybe Delphi sells it. That would be really handy!!

There were programming instructions included, as I mentioned, it was very sparse (and a warranty section).

Maybe my package was missing something? hmmm... ??? I went to Jen-Ken website and they were updating their website. I actually ended up going to the manufacturer of the controller, Orton, and they had some great PDF files that I downloaded - this helped me figure it all out. It all worked... so I am a happy camper!

What are your thoughts about surge protectors?

AND my next problem is finding a solution to all the power outtages we have where I live... not good!! I would hate to lose a batch of beads due to rapid cooling... I am thinking about a small generator as back up - do you have a contingency plan for power failures? It happened just the other day AGAIN, I was out back (not annealing, thankfully) and a transformer blew - we were out of power the whole evening and into the next morning. Usually we are out of power for days on end... !! aye!! Which I can get along fine without power... but, now that I am annealing... that is another story!! ha ha ha

Sincerely,
Sabine

[PaulaD]

Here is thelink to the rack. Only this place makes it and it is well worth the money!
http://www.inspirationtoolworks.com/lampworking/0011/
I do use a surge suppressor at home. If you were to loose power though the Annealer doesn't cool that fast. You probably won't loose beads unless they were really big. Just leave the door shut over night or until the Annealer totally cools down.
I'll have to talk to Jen-Ken and see what they are sending out for directions.
I probably will post my program at some point too..Paula

[MyHandmadeStuff]

Hi Paula

Thank you so much for the link, I have bookmarked it and will order!

Are you seller/rep with Jen-Ken?

My sister has a spare surge protector, from her computer, so I got one!! These are the good ones, and I will use that to protect the kiln from any kind of power surge - and we get alot of weird electrical issues around here... old subdivision on beach with huge expansions in area, I think the grid is just TOO old... and keeps giving out. In the last 5-6 years, I have actually seen the transformers go! It is a huge *light* show when that happens! I keep ALOT of candles around! ha ha AND BBQ food!

Thank you in advance for posting your program, I will compare it to what Delphi told me. You sound like a *Chili Pepper* expert!!

So far all of my beads are tiny - I think, to me tiny is under 1/2"...

Again many, many thanks for the link and all your input.

Have a great holiday weekend!!

Sincerely,
Sabine

(I have been surfing your website, WOW, all kinds of GOODIES, I will be making an order!! I have been trying to figure out a way to make a huge HOLE in the bead, I have been digging through my garage for a big diameter piece of SS, ha ha... now, I see you have a handy tool! I love the heart mandrel as well, wow - you are very inventive and creative!! I love it!)

[PaulaD]

Hi Sabin. That is Jeff's website. I sell Chili Peppers and he makes the rack to hold the mandrels!! The only thing you can buy on my website is a class or a Chili Pepper..I'm glad you chose the Chili Pepper. It's a great Annealer and you aren't likely to outgrow it for a while! I love the big door and it's so light weight I can easily move it myself!

Paula

[squid]

Once the temperature of 670 deg has been reached the bead is "safe" for removal and I was told to let everything cool naturally to room temp, they recommended letting it sit overnight and removing beads in morning.

Just wanted to point out that the bead is NOT safe for removal from the kiln at 670, but you CAN turn the kiln off and let it cool to room temp. 670 is still hot enough to crack if taken out at that temp.

[MyHandmadeStuff]

Hi Paula,

Perfect - the rack idea!! The Chili Pepper came highly recommended! I almost thought about getting a kiln with fusing capabilities, but I thought, nah... that's for another day ha ha!

The thing I really like about the Chili Pepper is the front door (a must have for me) and it's portability!! AND so far, I am VERY VERY happy with it, and will recommend to anyone I talk to!

Take care!
Sincerely,
Sabine

PS: I will be ordering the kiln goodies this week!! Once the holiday is over.

[MyHandmadeStuff]

Originally Posted by squid

Just wanted to point out that the bead is NOT safe for removal from the kiln at 670, but you CAN turn the kiln off and let it cool to room temp. 670 is still hot enough to crack if taken out at that temp.

Hi *squid*,

Thank you for the information!! I wonder if I misunderstood something from Delphi about a SAFE bead temp? - In their defense, they did not actually say to take the bead OUT at 670 degrees, and I have not done that yet *lol* - I think they meant to let cool overnight from that temperature and that I could end the programming cycle at that point, and shut off the kiln as you mentioned.

I think my instructions above might be misleading in that regard... thank you for pointing that out!

So far I have let it cool by itself overnight, to room temp.

Is there a RAMP DOWN procedure (degree per hour) from the 670 degree - and is there a *safe* temperature other than room temperature (around here it has been about 70 degrees in my outdoor studio).

Thank you in advance for your help!

Sincerely,
Sabine

[squid]

Hi Sabine -

From 670, generally just cooling on its own is fine. I wouldn't worry about ramping it down any slower than that unless you have very large beads.

I also do fused glass in a larger kiln, and have safely opened a kiln with 8" plates at 150 degrees, but have never tried anything higher than that - not worth the risk

Sigrid

[PaulaD]

Sabine,
Don't worry about fusing. Once I started to torch I never fused again. hehe!
I think they probably meant to turn off a brick kiln at 670..I bring my Chili Pepper all the way down to 300. And still keep the door shut until everything cools off.

[MyHandmadeStuff]

Originally Posted by PaulaD

Sabine,
Don't worry about fusing. Once I started to torch I never fused again. hehe!
I think they probably meant to turn off a brick kiln at 670..I bring my Chili Pepper all the way down to 300. And still keep the door shut until everything cools off.

Hi Paula,

... I think that was part of my confusion, seeing all the different temps/ramp rates, etc. different types of kilns... different types of glass, etc.

Would you mind posting your ramp/temp rate procedure for lampwork beads with the Chili Pepper kiln - starting at the 670 temp? I would really appreciate it - then I can update the previous post with this information for us! (ie. how fast/slow do you ramp to the 300 degree before turning kiln off?)

Thank you!! very much!!

Sincerely,
Sabine

[kk5336]

Hi Paula,

I bought a Chili Pepper from you back in May and I would really appreciate you posting your "garaging" schedule. Before I bought it, I researched every thread that I could find how to program it. Once you understand the language, it wasn't hard at all. Actually, (I can't recall who it was that did a tutorial-like thread on how to program the Chili Peper (I have it in my files), but I stop at 670 and let it cool down also. Does your garaging then have 5 segments, instead of 4? Also, since I do let the beads cool overnight, is it ok to leave the kiln on after it's shut off...flashing complete? Love my Chili Pepper...and you have the greatest prices!!!

Kathie
Good Omen Designs

[InsanityBeader]

Hey there, good luck with your new kiln. I just wanted to add that if you are having trouble with how to program you might want to call Jen-Ken peeps. I discovered that my program was actually not good for my kind of kiln, not a chili pepper. As it was I have burnt out two relay switches in the past year and a half. They are trully wonderful with thier customer service.

[PaulaD]

I probably won't get to post anything till next week as the Annealer is at the Srudio which is no where near my computer and I am frantically trying to clean up before Kim gets here. But remember there is not a one size fits all schedule. It should be adjusted for the size of your beads and how anal you want to be! And of course what kind of kiln you are using..We often crash cool during the classes though and haven't lost a bead yet. (That is just anneal for a short time and then turn the kiln off.) I saw Smircich do this in a class I took a few years ago and was horrified but have done it several times myself since then.And then the students get to leave with their beads.Paula

[MyHandmadeStuff]

Originally Posted by PaulaD

I probably won't get to post anything till next week as the Annealer is at the Srudio which is no where near my computer and I am frantically trying to clean up before Kim gets here. But remember there is not a one size fits all schedule. It should be adjusted for the size of your beads and how anal you want to be! And of course what kind of kiln you are using..We often crash cool during the classes though and haven't lost a bead yet. (That is just anneal for a short time and then turn the kiln off.) I saw Smircich do this in a class I took a few years ago and was horrified but have done it several times myself since then.And then the students get to leave with their beads.Paula

Hi Paula,

Clean??? What's that??? ha ha Good luck with that!!

ha ha, I laughed when I read what you said about being anal... My *real* job is engineering and I work with very, very tight tolerances... talk about having to be anal!!

So, when I am doing my *creative* stuff... I HAVE to let that go... otherwise I would be insane!

- from my *beginner* viewpoint, I have already discovered how forgiving glass can be, maybe that is why I love it so!! The only bead I have LOST so far, is the one that went down the kitchen sink!

Whenever you get a minute to post that *cool down from 670 deg schedule* (if there is one) - would be great!

Thank you again, for all your input! Have a great week!

Sincerely,
Sabine

[PaulaD]

Just change your last segment to 300 degrees instead of 670 or take it all the way down to 100 if you want to...
Paula

[MyHandmadeStuff]

Hi Paula,

I have another batch, ready to go... will be annealing over the weekend! I think I will go to the 300 deg, it makes me more comfortable - especially given the fact the nights are getting alot cooler here in Michigan! I figure the 300 is just about midway between the 670 and 100! Thank you for the advice and help!

Take care, and have a great weekend!

Sincerely,
Sabine