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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2010-09-25, 3:51pm
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honorary bead lady
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Join Date: Jan 14, 2008
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Copper Etching Discussion
I have looked around the forum and online and find that there are several etching methods that should work at home.
*ETA the first method also electroforms!!!
*Please note that the term nontoxic/non-toxic has become synonymous with safety conscious practice. Nontoxic processes still use a variety of chemicals, and the ultimate safety of any material and process is dependent on their informed use.
Rectifier and Copper sulphate... added 11/29/10
http://www.greenart.info/galvetch/contfram.htm
Look at the bottom there is a place to "get book" PDF download from Cedric Green hence "Green Prints"
http://www.nontoxicprint.com/electroetching.htm
The Chemistry of using Copper Sulfate Mordant Added 11/28/10
http://www.ndiprintmaking.ca/?p=74
*Although copper sulfate is a comparatively safe chemical for etching, it is considered a marine pollutant, and if present in rivers or lakes it can kill fish. It is crucial that solutions containing this salt are never poured down a drain.
Complete Elimination of Metal Compounds from Mordant before Disposal
http://www.ndiprintmaking.ca/?p=80
http://www.nontoxicprint.com/etchzincsteelaluminum.htm
Rectifier and salt solution...
http://www.cspoguegraphics.com/electrolysis.php added 2/20/13
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=120896
http://www.instructables.com/id/The-...-etch-process/ Be sure to read the replies!
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...3&postcount=37
Ferric Chloride solution (commercial etchant radio shack, art supply)
http://copperheartdesigns.blogspot.c...ch-copper.html
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nena...nsfer_etch.htm
http://www.hodgepodgerie.com/etching-copper.html
http://www.ccsf.edu/Departments/Art/...page_image.htm
Edinburgh etch solution Ferric Chloride and Citric acid
http://www.ganoksin.com/ftp/edinburg-etch.pdf
http://www.nontoxicprint.com/etchcopperandbrass.htm
http://www.polymetaal.nl/beguin/mape/edinburgh_etch.htm
Cupric Chloride etchant Peroxide/acid ( Hardware store/drugstore)
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~esey...uCl/index.html
http://www.xertech.net/Tech/CuCl_ech.html (added 10/14)
http://157.158.19.167/papers_amme03/1229.pdf
http://www.opencircuits.com/Chemical_Etchants
Video series (added 10/9)
http://www.ehow.com/videos-on_8351_e...it-boards.html
Etching in general
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nena...-champleve.htm
http://www.making-jewelry-now.com/ac...ry-part-1.html
Resists
scotch tape, asphalt, red paint, Petroleum jelly, sharpie markers,
Nail polish (you can thin it down to a great consistency for painting fine lines),
Testors enamel paint is another great one.
Future or KLEAR acrylic floor polish.
PnP info... http://www.techniks.com/how_to.htm
Magazine paper and laser printer
http://www.riccibitti.com/pcb/pcb.htm (added 10/12/10)
http://fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm (added 1/8/11)
Flame Coloring...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzU5RNAjN34
Build your own rectifier/power supply...
http://chriscrawfordknives.com/#/ele...nit/4535265119 (added 2/12/11)
So what do you use for solution/resist?
ETA 12/11: Electroplating http://www.archive.org/stream/electr...e/250/mode/2up
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2010-09-25, 4:44pm
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Type ZZZ personality
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Join Date: Aug 15, 2005
Location: Chicago western 'burbs
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I've done it a couple of times using black Sharpie and Ferric Chloride.
I've seen others use black permanent ink with rubber stamps.
BTW, please remember that the sludge at the bottom of the etch bath should be disposed of at a toxic waste facility.
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Lynx with 2 5-lpm oxycons
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2010-09-25, 6:40pm
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Tomato Killer
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Join Date: Aug 27, 2005
Location: Brooklyn, baby.
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ferric chloride and a few different resists (tape, ink, printer toner)
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2010-09-25, 7:01pm
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Uh Oh....
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Join Date: Dec 06, 2005
Posts: 1,039
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I use PnP for the resist and ferric chloride. I can get really crisp images with the PnP paper. It takes more work to get it off but the results are worth it.
The industrial Sharpie markers work better than the regular Sharpies. I've used rubber stamps too and they work well if I can get a good stamping with some kind of permanent ink like Staz-on. I sometimes have to touch up using a Sharpie. I never get the image as crisp as with the PnP paper but sometimes I'm going for something less precise and more organic. It's way easier to remove the Sharpie or Staz-on inks afterwards than the PnP paper.
I did this one using PnP paper resist. I accidentally left it in the ferric chloride too long and got a deeper etch than I wanted. I haven't cleaned up the copper yet, just removed the PnP paper.
This piece is sterling silver etched using the PnP paper resist. I only cleaned off the PnP paper, the silver still needs to be pickled and shined up. I used ferric nitrate for the etching solution.
It's hard to tell because it's not cleaned up but all the little lines show up crisp. It's hard to get the same from a rubber stamp.
And I agree, the residue needs to be dispose of properly, as with the solution and care needs to be taken when using any kind of acids.
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Susan
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2010-09-25, 7:23pm
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FireBeads
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Location: Running Springs, CA
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Thanks for that list! Everything you need to know in one location is great.
I've only etched copper once using the ferric chloride. I etched two pieces - on one I used a sharpie and the other I used mylar stickers (scrapbook stickers from Michael's, etc.). The stickers had crisper edges but I liked both equally.
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2010-09-25, 7:45pm
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Cancer SUCKS!
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Join Date: Oct 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
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I've had nothing but trouble with the PnP paper. Do you have any suggestions on how to use it?
Thanks in advance.
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Deb in MN
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2010-09-25, 7:54pm
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honorary bead lady
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2010-09-25, 8:16pm
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hot stuff
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verrrrrry cool beans ! So who has the lowest pricing for silver sheet ?
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2010-09-25, 9:05pm
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Uh Oh....
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Join Date: Dec 06, 2005
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I do it just like the link David provided. I've always got a good transfer. What kind of issues are you having with PnP paper?
Monsterslayer has low prices on sterling silver sheet. I fortunately bought a lot of it years ago before the prices skyrocketed.
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Susan
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2010-09-25, 9:28pm
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MacGalver
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What a fantastic resource! David, you rock ~
Jo
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2010-09-26, 5:34am
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Growing Edge Glass
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Great resources David..thanks for listing them!
I use rubber stamps, sharpies, stickers and soon, PNP paper for resists.....bought the laser printer/pnp paper..just need to set it up.
Susan....beautiful etching!! LOVE it!!
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~Mikelene
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2010-09-26, 6:10am
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Senior Member
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Thank you for all of the great information. Sounds like you can run the PnP Paper thru the copy machine and don't have to us a laser printer. I am going to order some paper!
Teresa
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Teresa
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2010-09-26, 7:14am
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honorary bead lady
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As long as the copier uses dry toner!
A 3 in one fax,copier,printer will not work
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2010-09-26, 7:19am
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Uh Oh....
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David did an awesome job collecting all the info and putting it all in one place. Thanks David!!
I photocopy my images onto the PnP paper. I've always taken my images to a copy store and used a laser copy machine to make my copies. I'm not sure if an ink jet copier will work. I'm guessing not.
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Susan
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2010-09-26, 7:20am
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Uh Oh....
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Thanks David for answering the copier question. I didn't know for sure.
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Susan
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2010-10-09, 10:08am
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honorary bead lady
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Just found this video series on the muratic acid/peroxide method...
http://www.ehow.com/videos-on_8351_e...it-boards.html
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2010-10-11, 12:56pm
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Cancer SUCKS!
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I'm having trouble getting a good solid transfer onto the metal.
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Deb in MN
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2010-10-11, 3:17pm
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honorary bead lady
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Deb is it clean? Scrub down the copper with some acetone first and let it dry
then try
Ok here is my first try at this with the Acid/peroxide method
Lto R
top patinaed pigmented stamp ink (?) (about 45 mins)
top patinaed Spray paint on lace fabric them stamped while wet (about 45) mins
no patina top sharpie marker, bottom spray lacquer thru lace fabric
You can see to the upper right that it actually started to eat the copper plate but it was in for 1 1/2 hrs
Washable stamp ink does not work it just washes off
For $5.73 I made 1/2 gallon of solution
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2010-10-17, 5:29pm
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Senior Member
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OK the PNP is like the paper that Wally world has to use on Sweat shirt of any fabric. They are used in your printer? Or is it a PNP that is from a printer store?
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2010-10-18, 8:09pm
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Senior Member
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Thank you for this information.
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2010-10-18, 8:23pm
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http://youtu.be/nGt9jAkWi
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I tried this with my rectifier today & it etched really well. The only problem was that my resist came off. I used a sharpie. It stayed at first, but I went to sleep & left them in to long. I ordered some of the resist from Dick Blick but it hasn't come yet.
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Vivian
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2010-10-19, 10:56am
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OK There is a professor that is doing this in the art department. Went into the book store to find all the goodies to use for acid etching and the copper in small to large pieces.
OMG! I'm in hog heaven. Will see how this other works first. Would love to see how this works in there class.
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2010-11-02, 2:35pm
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honorary bead lady
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I think I got it figured out for the most part...
3x6
3x6
3x4
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2010-11-02, 3:22pm
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David, they're beautiful! What did you end up using to etch?
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Ari'elle
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2010-11-02, 4:08pm
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honorary bead lady
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Thank you! The acid/peroxide solution
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2010-11-02, 6:27pm
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Senior Member
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David, Those are very well done. Love them!! Beautiful work!!!!
Janet C
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2010-11-28, 10:49pm
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honorary bead lady
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Added to the list above
The Chemistry of using Copper Sulfate Mordant
http://www.ndiprintmaking.ca/?p=74
Complete Elimination of Metal Compounds from Mordant before Disposal
http://www.ndiprintmaking.ca/?p=80
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2010-11-29, 11:20am
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honorary bead lady
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Copper sulphate solution is used with a rectifier for electroforming and etching. It is suggested by 1 etching supplier that it is "safe to pour down the drain".
Copper sulfate is highly toxic to fish. In 1995 California EPA banned the sale and use of products containing copper sulfate due to exceeded acceptable levels in San Francisco Bay and its estuaries. The counties included in the ban were Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Napa, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara and Sonoma.
Copper sulfate may also be poisonous to sheep and chickens at normal application rates. Most animal life in soil, including large earthworms, have been eliminated by the extensive use of copper sulfate in orchards.
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Copper sulphate is banned as a root killer in Connecticut and some areas of Florida
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2010-11-29, 11:57am
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Meow.
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To be clear she says: "If you do want to dispose of the solution, you can flush it away as it is not harmful for the environment in small concentrations."
I'm not trying to say it's not bad for the environment or not - but I'm curious as to true hazard regarding the concentration suggested for etching. Also - first and foremost, it's suggested you re-use the solution.
Your etches look awesome!
Quote:
Originally Posted by houptdavid
Copper sulphate solution is used with a rectifier for electroforming and etching. It is suggested by 1 etching supplier that it is "safe to pour down the drain".
Copper sulfate is highly toxic to fish. In 1995 California EPA banned the sale and use of products containing copper sulfate due to exceeded acceptable levels in San Francisco Bay and its estuaries. The counties included in the ban were Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Napa, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara and Sonoma.
Copper sulfate may also be poisonous to sheep and chickens at normal application rates. Most animal life in soil, including large earthworms, have been eliminated by the extensive use of copper sulfate in orchards.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copper sulphate is banned as a root killer in Connecticut and some areas of Florida
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Kim
Go on. Click it!
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Yes. We. Did!
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2010-11-29, 12:26pm
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honorary bead lady
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgslampwork
To be clear she says: "If you do want to dispose of the solution, you can flush it away as it is not harmful for the environment in small concentrations."
Your etches look awesome!
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Kim Thank you
It is the "you can flush it away" part. While yes IN some places you can still do this, in others you cannot and need to be informed of this even in trace quantities.
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