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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #1  
Old 2012-09-16, 4:08am
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Default amber purple is a b!tch

i've just got a couple questions in regards to NS amber purple. i understand to get the nice colors out of it i've got to use an oxidizing flame and keep the haze burnt off. no problems there. my issues start after that. how is it possible to fully melt in lines of AP (or DAP, green ap etc) w/o overworking it?

i can get all the nice "boro" color pallet out of it on the rod, but as soon as i have to work it in to a piece it goes all muddy on me. does anyone have any suggestions?
it just seems it's too easy to over work it when i'm using it for anything other then warts on a pipe (even many of those by the time they're melted in, it's gone muddy).

i'm wasting so much of these gorgeous colors only to get brown and green baby poop.
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Old 2012-09-16, 4:16am
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sounds like your flame is still reducing. First thing I do after applying AP or DAP is encase it. And it like to be HOT! I mean white hot, aka screaming hot. Are you kiln striking or flame striking? I follow Brent Grabber's, Mr. Smiley, advice and garage at 1030 and strike it at 1085 for 45 minutes. I get excellent results.
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  #3  
Old 2012-09-16, 4:20am
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i think maybe that's where i might be going wrong....not getting it hot enough sometimes, other times i get it so hot it boils.
i'll play around more today. stupid question, but does a premix typically give better results then a surface mix with these colors? seems a premix is easier to tell when you've really got an oxidizing flame...at least with concentrators.
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Old 2012-09-16, 4:24am
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Boiling is not a big issue as the AP family will heal from the boil. Go to North Star's website, they have some good articles on working with the AP family. As far as premix vs surface mix goes I can't say because I exclusively use a surface mix torch. When I work AP's I try to get the gather white hot before applying, if it is too runny to apply I let it cool a bit then apply. It works don't ask me why. Boro color is different beast from soda lime color.
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Old 2012-09-16, 4:50am
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thanks i'll play around more this afternoon.
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  #6  
Old 2012-09-16, 8:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by istandalone24/7 View Post
i think maybe that's where i might be going wrong....not getting it hot enough sometimes, other times i get it so hot it boils.
i'll play around more today. stupid question, but does a premix typically give better results then a surface mix with these colors? seems a premix is easier to tell when you've really got an oxidizing flame...at least with concentrators.
The glass doesnt care what kind of torch you have. To work these colors you just have to work very hot and in an oxidizing atmosphere. How you get there is irrelevant. The key is having enough high purity oxygen at a high enough pressure to achieve that. You are at a disadvantage if you are running concentrators.
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  #7  
Old 2012-09-16, 11:43am
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moot point in the concentrators...i'm picking up my homefill tomorrow!
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Old 2012-09-16, 5:23pm
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Yep, Larry and others are 100% right about the AP family wanting to be HOT! Work it hot, keep it hot. If it starts to cool, let it get all the way below "glow" and strike it. Don't let it sit in that mid-heat stage or you'll just get poop from it.

About the time you think it's hot enough, heat it some more! "White snot hot" as Mr. Smiley would say.
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  #9  
Old 2012-09-17, 5:56am
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If you don't have Brent Graber's first video, get it ASAP. It covers most everything regarding getting great colors from Amber purple family colors. I learned most of it from him in person, but the video is great, and explains how to work AP colors in great detail. A lot of it would probably transfer to hollow stuff - he made a KILLER pink spoon a couple years back and donated it at the ISGB gathering.

edit: It works best when backed with another color. White, tan, even black though your results will vary based on the backing color.

edit#2: My experience was that a flame which looks oxidizing on concentrators is probably neutral to slightly reducing. On my 2 concentrator setup, a truly oxidizing flame was relatively cold and hard to work with because there is only so much oxy available. When I switched to tanked, this ceased to be a problem.
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Last edited by Bunyip; 2012-09-17 at 6:02am.
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  #10  
Old 2012-09-17, 6:05am
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thanks for all the help! i'll get that vid for sure. these alluring boro colors are so damn frustrating for a newb like me!
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Old 2012-09-17, 9:40am
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Bunyip has great advice!
The most important factor is the concentrators. In more detail, when you "attempt" to create an oxy flame with concentrators, most artists turn them up to increase output. That fast, oxy looking flame created from pushing the machines in reality is reducing.
The purity of oxygen drops off drastically (below 90%) when the machines are run close to max. To create a true oxy flame, the concentrators need to be run at 75% or less.The higher LPM output is sacrificed in this scenario.
Going further.... southern and coastal states have more issues with concentrators. Both heat and high humidity effect the oxygen purity created by concentrators. Ever wonder why you get nicer purples in the winter? Cold air is drier increasing the performance of the moleculer sieve.
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Old 2012-09-17, 10:05am
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Brent's the answer here! I have BOTH his his dvd's and both have helped me tremendously when I play with certain boro. I have also altered my boro annealing program to simulate Brent's...in fact when I use boro thats NOT that program I manually change the program (if that makes sense).

Duane
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  #13  
Old 2012-09-17, 5:02pm
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I might just have to clean, photograph, and post a couple of DAP and clear beads on LE and FB. *HUGS* Angelique
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Old 2012-09-17, 8:54pm
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I love DAP...
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Old 2012-09-18, 12:42am
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DAP likes HOT HOT HOT. I originally had problems with my Lynx tending to be reducing. Backed down the output and lowered the propane psi. Worked the DAP over white.....sweet!
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  #16  
Old 2012-09-18, 5:11am
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after messing around a bit, i've come to the conclusion that i just can't get the colors to pop with concentrators.
last night after putting my studio back together i did a little experiment, coil potting some AP over clear and then over white and blowing a bubble. all with concentrators. mostly mud with some nice purples.

then i did the same thing...coil pot AP over white with the last of my tanked (had about 200psi left in the t tank) and blew a bubble.....much much nicer!

i'll leave my concentrators hooked up for soft glass and use tanked for boro.
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Old 2012-09-18, 10:14am
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It's doable on concentrators. Well, on mine anyhow, but much easier on tanked, yes.
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  #18  
Old 2012-10-11, 6:27pm
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For silver colors, the atmosphere of the flame is not as important as the temperature to which you heat the glass. You need to heat it to near boiling to lose the 'haze', which is indeed reduction... but NOT reduction caused by flame atmosphere, as you'd see on cobalt or a copper color. It's caused by heating the color unevenly or at a temp around 1200-1500 degrees for a while.

It just happens that the best flames to achieve these temps are neutral to oxidizing. More neutral than oxidizing, actually... nobody ever talks about a neutral flame, but in fact this is the hottest flame. The excess oxygen in a true oxidizing flame brings the temp down (often, when people say oxidizing, they really just mean 'not reducing' and often, neutral).
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