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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2008-05-24, 7:15pm
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Default Oxygen Analyzer Results

When reading reveiews of concentrators, one is usually met with statements like, "It Rocks!" and "I love my machine!" The inherent problem with subjective exclamations like these is that they are personal opinions and what is satisfactory for one person might not be satisfactory for someone else.

To complicate matters, many of these statements are made from enthusiastic lampworkers who are running on their first oxygen/fuel set-up (pretty much anything that produces a flame would rock compared to a HotHead) and have never seen how tanked oxygen or a high purity/high flow concentrator can power their torch. Still others know that they are not going to get the same performance on a concentrator as they would on tanked, but they do not know how close some of the new concentrators can get, nowadays. So, while their enthusiasm is honest, it isn't particularly helpful if what they are so excited about really does not perform as well as something else.

For quite a while, I have known from my experience that some machines are better than others. I wanted a way to quantify it and back up my opinion with some numbers. Numbers are nice because they are objective. So, I bit the bullet and aquired an oxygen analyzer to gauge the output of oxygen concentrators/generators.

My particular meter measures the oxygen concentration (purity), the flow (LPM), and the pressure (psi). It's a pretty handy tool. You just connect it to a running concentrator and take your readings. I wanted to get the most accurate readings, so I contacted the manufacturer of the meter and had them walk me through calibrating my analyzer for the purity and adjusting it to correctly read the flow at my elevation (I am in Colorado, between Denver and Colorado Springs up on a ridge). I calibrated the machine with a tank of oxygen that was >99% pure. I verified the purity with my oxygen supplier beforehand. My oxygen analyzer has a margin of error of +/-2%

So, with everything all tip-top and ready to go, I set out measuring the concentrators I have here with me in my home studio. I have an Integra10, a Regalia, an Invacare, and an Unlimited Oxygen M-20. I ran each concentrator for a minimum of ten minutes to ensure that each machine had built up its purity levels and was set to operate at the highest flow rate recommended for each machine.

The first thing that I found out was that even though my Regalia was set to 10 LPM, it was not putting out 10 LPM. At first, I was concerned. But then, I tested my other machines and got similar results. I finally realized that it was due to my elevation and confirmed this with the manufacturer. Where I am, there is about 20% less air than at sea level. This does not mean that there is a lower percentage of oxygen here per liter of air we breathe, but that there is just less air altogether to breathe - or, for our purposes, to run through the air compressor in a concentrator. So, because there is not as much going into the system, there won't be as much coming out.

This is actually good news, believe it or not, since all of my evaluations of how well the Lynx, Cheetah, and Phantom were powered by the Regalia were done at this altitude. It should do even better at lower elevations!

So, back to the testing... at the 10 LPM setting on the Regalia, the flow meter read 7.7 LPM, the purity was 93-94%, and the pressure was right around 8 psi. The specs for the Regalia state that it should get 91% +/-3% purity at 1-10 LPM at sea level and that the pressure should be 7 psi nominal.

I got similar results from my Integra10. I hooked up my analyzer to the Integra10 set at 10 LPM. The first time I tested, the my flow meter read 8.5 LPM, the purity was 91%, and the pressure was 8-8.3 psi. I tested the Integra 10 a few days later when I tested my Invacare. This time I was more careful where I set the flow meter on the machine. My flow meter read 8.3 LPM, the purity was 93-94%, and the pressure was 7.8 psi. I think the reason for the slight discrepancy is due to the analogue flow meter on the Integra10. You look at it from one angle, and it looks like it is set at 10 LPM, but then from another angle, it looks either a little higher or a little lower. Analogue flow meters are not very precise, but they get close. I must have had it set just a little higher that first day. The higher you set any concentrator, the lower the purity.

At the 5 LPM setting on my Invacare, the flow meter read 4.2 LPM, the purity was 93%, and the pressure was 5 psi. The company that reconditions the Invacares for me says that they will put out 90% or better at 5LPM and that they will have a pressure of 5-5.5psi. I did some experimenting with Ying the Invacare and the Integra10 together and will post those findings in another thread.

So, all in all, those machines (Regalia, Integra10, and Invacare) performed how they should have performed. The UO M-20, however, did not fair as well. I understand that some people have some Unlimited Oxygen units (including M-20s) that have not given them any trouble, but I have one here that was originally sent to Willy and Wally for testing and it just sits idle because it is pretty much useless. The flow and the pressure both have wide swings that translate to a fluctuating flame that goes from small yellow tips to big yellow tips. Also, I could tell by the flame that the purity was incredibly poor. I now have a number to put with that observation. I went back to the user's manual that was sent with the machine and found that the purity was not supposed to be all that great in the first place, but when I measured it with an oxygen analyzer, it wasn't even as good as the lower end of the specs.

The specs said that the M-20 should have an oxygen concentration of 89% +/-4% at 1-8 LPM and 75% +/-4% at 9-10 LPM. It also said that the operating pressure was 16-20 psi.

I tried to set the M-20 to 10 LPM, but it was very hard to get it to stay still. The flow meter read from 8.5 to 9.2 LPM, dipping down and spiking above that range. The purity fluctuated as the machine cycled. It was as low as 54.8%, but climbed as high as 65.3%. The pressure ranged from 13.6 to 16.6 psi. I took pictures at 55% and 65.3%.


Well, I then tried to set the M-20 to 8 LPM. This is supposed to be the highest flow setting where the purity should have been best and is what certain proponents of this machine set their units to and claim to get very good results. The M-20 kept fluctuating, making it hard to set. While my flow meter read from 7.2 LPM to 7.9 LPM, the purity would spike as high as 74.2% for a split second and dip down to 66.1%, but it hung at 68% more than anywhere else. I measured the pressure at this setting, and it ranged from 13.5psi to 16.5 psi.

I understand that there are some people who have had better experiences with their UO machines. But, I have heard of many others who, like me, have had problems. And, keep in mind, this is one of the three cherry picked replacement machines UO sent to GTT for testing after the original three that were sent were all bad. Because of my experience and GTT's experience, and other experiences that I had heard about or read, I would not recommend those machines. At least now I have some numbers to go with my opinion.
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Last edited by kbinkster; 2008-05-24 at 9:36pm. Reason: corrected some grammar
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Old 2008-05-24, 8:16pm
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Thanks for the Informative Evaluation on those machines.
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Old 2008-05-24, 9:27pm
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Gee. I would like one of those units to try on mine. I think mine is running badly. I might hunt around and see if someone at work has one to borrow.
That's really informative research you did. Raises a few questions though too about what we are really getting from our machines.

Kym
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Old 2008-05-24, 10:07pm
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wow that is great information!! It will be very useful to so many of us.
thank you!
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Old 2008-05-24, 10:23pm
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Are the oxycons your testing new units or used.
I ask couse all my M20 run at just about 9.3 to 9.7 lpm and 94 to 96% and there a few years old so you must have a problem with yours.
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Old 2008-05-24, 10:31pm
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The Integra10 and Regalia are my machines that I have been lampworking with, so they are used. I just bought the Invacare recently for testing. It is a reconditioned machine. The M-20 has had very little use - just for testing.
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Old 2008-05-25, 1:53am
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My machine (Airsep AS-12A) runs at 15psi and the flowmeter reads 12 lpm. I think it's overkill for my Bobcat, but I'm guessing that it's a good match for the Lynx. I'm not sure what the purity is though, and I can't find my specs sheet. I would look it up online, but my stupid computer isn't reading PDF files right now.
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Old 2008-05-25, 7:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLASSFREEK View Post
Are the oxycons your testing new units or used.
I ask couse all my M20 run at just about 9.3 to 9.7 lpm and 94 to 96% and there a few years old so you must have a problem with yours.
Mike
Obviously, I have a problem with mine. There is also a problem with the other M-20 that GTT purchased, as well, though I have not tested it yet with my analyzer. There were problems with the previous M-20s that were sent to GTT for testing. That's four M-20s out of four with problems.

I am also hearing back from several other people who have problems. From what I have gathered, either they have bad performance right out of the gates, or they work well for a while and then die. I know that you and Brent say that you have run your M-20s for years without problems, and that's great. I'm not saying that you have not had that experience. But, I am saying that other people, myself included, have had a far different experience.

I am glad to hear that your M-20s are all running at 9.3 to 9.7 LPM at 94-96%. That's great! Could you tell us some more about them and your measuring techniques? How many do you have? Where are they located (elevation)? What type of analyzer did you use to measure the concentration? Did you measure the concentration at the 9.3 to 9.7 LPM flow rate or did you measure it at a lower flow? How did you calibrate your machine? What type of flow meter did you use (volumetric or one that measures true mass flow)? Did you also measure the pressure output? If you have that information, it would really benefit everyone to see.



I am getting things set up so that I can make my analyzer available for people who would like to test their own units. It would be great to have a database for all the machines out there.
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Old 2008-05-25, 7:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisi View Post
My machine (Airsep AS-12A) runs at 15psi and the flowmeter reads 12 lpm. I think it's overkill for my Bobcat, but I'm guessing that it's a good match for the Lynx. I'm not sure what the purity is though, and I can't find my specs sheet. I would look it up online, but my stupid computer isn't reading PDF files right now.
I have spec sheets for my concentrators, as well. My point in testing with the analyzer is to see how true the various machines are running. Clearly, one of them was running way out of specification.
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Old 2008-05-25, 1:59pm
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Have you tested the OG20, if so I would be interested in what you found ?
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Old 2008-05-25, 4:59pm
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Kimberly, thanks for taking the time to compile this information.
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Old 2008-05-25, 6:00pm
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Kimberly,
Thanks for the info. I have an M-20, and it seems okay. I have been off the torch for more than a year though and have just gotten back on. I just hope it will continue to work. Can purity and flow be fixed? How would I check to see what my flow and purity are? Thanks for the info.


Joyce
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Old 2008-05-26, 1:18pm
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I am sorry your M-20 is not performing well. You should definitely call Jack and get it swapped out for a good one. His customer service is above and beyond. They want ALL of their customers to be happy. I know he'll get you one that's right. He's offered and I guess you either have the worst luck in the world or you just want to keep a bad unit... or... ???

Dunno what the reasons are for you to hold on to a bad unit for years. I know I wouldn't.

I'd love for you to get a UO unit that works as well as mine. UO wants anybody who buys a unit to be completely satisfied.
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Old 2008-05-26, 3:23pm
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As I understand it, the M-20 wasn't performing as its specs that's why UO discontinued it and replaced it with the M-15. I think that it will be very helpful if you can get a newer machine to do the test on, especially since you are comparing a competitor's products against the ones you are selling.

It's obvious from many of your post that the M-20s your husband at GTT got were defective somehow. I agree with Brent - Jack as Unlimited Oxygen backs up all his products and will surely take care of you!
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Old 2008-05-26, 6:51pm
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if i am not mistaken ,but UO sent her three machines and all where defective? no brainer for me, get your money back and stick to what you know does work. SO I do have a Question for Kimberly, and that is if I purchased a Integra10/ Regalia from you and had a problem where do I ship this machine to? I personally dont care to get involved with yet another company for repairs. why should i deal with a company that wasnt in the purchase equation that could add delays and despair to a purchase that is needed to produce work in my business? that just me and I not trying to be difficult, just one of my rules these days.
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Old 2008-05-26, 9:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley View Post
I am sorry your M-20 is not performing well.
Me, too. Seriously, I was very disappointed. Willy and I were so very excited to run that unit at the Louisville Gathering, I even wrote about it on WC. We offered South Central Cryogenics (Now UO) to run their machine at open torch at our table before anyone else. They asked us if we would like to sell their units. We told them that we would like to, based on how that unit performed, but really could not sell or endorse them until we tested it more thoroughly in the shop. Other companies did not want to wait to test units. Several signed up to be distributors right there at the show.

We were really hoping for some good results with the testing. We stood to benefit a great deal if there was a high pressure/high flow concentrator available for our torches. I was not in the concentrator business at that time. This would have put me in it, though.


Quote:
You should definitely call Jack and get it swapped out for a good one.
That's what we did for the first three units. Let me back up a minute. GTT arranged to test some units for South Central Cryogenics/UO. They sent two M-20s and an M-10. They also sent an invoice. We thought that that was peculiar, especially since owning the machine being tested would give us a vested interest in a positive outcome. In the past, when GTT had tested machines (like the Onyx+ and the Integra10), there was nothing whatsoever to be gained or lost by the outcome of the testing and they would not be stuck owning a bad machine, if they had performed poorly. GTT paid the invoice and took delivery of the three machines.

Unfortunately, all three machines were defective. GTT contacted SCC/UO and they agreed to swap out the initial three defective units for three more. What a rigamaroll. It took a while to get the call tags to send the first three back. Then, they had to wait to get the replacements. And then, when the replacement units arrived, what a disappointment that was! I could not imagine how inconvenient (to say the least) that whole thing would have been to an artist whose production schedule relied on having functioning machines.

So, you ask why we held onto the bad machines? Well, how many times should you go through the return process? Once was more than enough. You would think that a company would pick the best of the best or at least a representative sample to send out for someone to test. Why would SCC/UO send out bad units not just once, but twice?

The whole purpose of the testing was to evaluate the machines. The first set of three machines should have been the sole basis of the evaluation. GTT gave them a second chance. The failure of the second set of three machines should have clinched it for us. In a way, it did, but we still had hope that they would improve their products. When the KC Gathering rolled around we ran that big machine on the Lynx (the one we were originally told was 20 psi/20 LPM and then told that it was 20 psi/10 LPM) and it did not outperform than the Regalia (7-9 psi/10 LPM) - the Lynxes on the table running at 10 psi outperformed this machine that allegedly put out 20 psi! Paul was right there and did not indicate that the machine was performing less than expected, btw. Well, after that third encounter, what am I supposed to think? I know that most people have a three strikes and you're out rule. At least we weren't out any more money, this last time.

No, sometimes people just throw up their hands and walk away. It just isn't worth the headache. We had more than enough information to evaluate the machines, thank you very much.

Quote:
His customer service is above and beyond. They want ALL of their customers to be happy. I know he'll get you one that's right.
Yes, I hear quite a bit about his good customer service because there have been quite a few problems with his machines that he has responded to. I have also hear about a few frustrated customers, as well. I do sell machines to former UO customers, btw.

Quote:
He's offered and I guess you either have the worst luck in the world or you just want to keep a bad unit... or... ???
He's offered what? These machines are long past the 6 month warranty they had. Are you saying that he is still willing to honor the warranty after all this time has passed?

Quote:
Dunno what the reasons are for you to hold on to a bad unit for years. I know I wouldn't.
Dunno why we had to get two sets of three bad machine in the first (and second) place.

What is the average number of times a person has to return a unit before getting a good one? I have read on here about some people who had to do the return thing three times.

It's great that Jack has such great customer service. It would be better if the quality control at UO was better, though.

Quote:
I'd love for you to get a UO unit that works as well as mine. UO wants anybody who buys a unit to be completely satisfied.
I would be thrilled to get a UO unit that works as well as yours.



Like I mentioned earlier, I now have a device that definitively measures concentrator output. I can test lots and lots of machines and see if I really did have the "worst luck in the world."

A while back, Paul had offered me a chance to go to UO and test their units on site and if I was pleased with the output, I could become a distributor. Things got hectic over here and I did not have the chance to go up there. There are plenty of their units out in the field, however, that I can test. I think that testing those and seeing how they are holding up after use would be more telling than testing brand new machines at the factory. Who knows? I might just find that UO has made a lot of progress in the last year or so.

I am not married to any particular concentrator manufacturer. I already sell competing products. On-Site, SeQual, and the individual manufacturers of the reconditioned 5 LPM units that I sell are all competitors. I am always looking for the best oxygen solutions for lampworkers. It would not make sense for me to hang onto anything if it did not perform as it should; and, it would not make sense for me to turn my back to something that performed well just because I already sell a competing product.
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Old 2008-05-26, 10:01pm
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Originally Posted by murf View Post
if i am not mistaken ,but UO sent her three machines and all where defective? no brainer for me, get your money back and stick to what you know does work. SO I do have a Question for Kimberly, and that is if I purchased a Integra10/ Regalia from you and had a problem where do I ship this machine to? I personally dont care to get involved with yet another company for repairs. why should i deal with a company that wasnt in the purchase equation that could add delays and despair to a purchase that is needed to produce work in my business? that just me and I not trying to be difficult, just one of my rules these days.
You're not being difficult.

I am a distributor for SeQual (the sole North American distributor of the Regalia for the lampworking industry). I do not carry any machines in stock. As soon as someone places an order with me, I direct SeQual to send a unit directly from the manufacturing plant to the customer. This cuts down on problems that could happen when shipping over and over again.

The manufacturer, SeQual, is who warrantees the machines. So, if there is a problem that requires the machine to be sent back, it would be sent back to them, the manufacturer. They are the ones who built it and they are the ones best able to solve any problem. Of course, I am available to help fascilitate this, but, you could also contact them directly, if needed. They are also available to help trouble-shoot problems over the phone (I can handle simple things and help with set-up, too). It is better if something can be fixed over the phone than having to send an entire unit back and forth.

Of course, the main objective is to send out a product that has no problems. But, if there is something amiss, we're all available to help. Fortunately, I have only had one problem since I have been selling these machines (almost two years, now) and that was an outlet that had been broken. The customer called me to report the problem; I called my contact at SeQual; he called the customer and sent her out a replacement; once she received the parts, he walked her through replacing the outlet over the phone.

It's great to have great customer service/customer care. It's even better to not have problems in the first place.
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Old 2008-05-26, 10:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley View Post

I'd love for you to get a UO unit that works as well as mine. UO wants anybody who buys a unit to be completely satisfied.
It is no secrete that I have been very unsatisfied with the service of UO and Jack .

suddenly I dont see those claims about a hurricane running a phantom at 90%,
hmm whats gives with that????????

Out side of that, I can certainly see Kimberly's and GTT position in moving on to better things. after such an experience wouldn't any sane person do the same.

this dilemma that she states is fairly old news. I have only been lampworking about a year and read about this some time ago. it was a rather long thread and quite the cat fight as I recall leaving me and no doubt others questioning the respectably of those bantering. For a lady that is married to what seems to be a pretty nice guy and ya a GTT owner, I would have to say she been fairly honest in her representing of the facts as far as her own testing.
Just my two cents or more.
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Last edited by murf; 2008-05-26 at 11:32pm.
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Old 2008-05-27, 12:34am
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as I do not have any of the machines being tested, most of this thread is purely academic for me, I have an OGSI 20 have any tests been done with this machine? Whew, it's very hard to get peoples attention on this thread.
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Old 2008-05-27, 1:34am
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Originally Posted by castaway View Post
as I do not have any of the machines being tested, most of this thread is purely academic for me, I have an OGSI 20 have any tests been done with this machine? Whew, it's very hard to get peoples attention on this thread.
B
I haven't tested an OGSI machine. I have heard nothing but good things about them. If they will provide the amount of oxygen you need and you can afford it, they are a solid unit.
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Old 2008-05-27, 1:47am
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Kimberly, they had a ton of shipping issues several years ago. The units come with a 3 YEAR warranty now, but I am sure Jack would honor his offer to get you a good working unit. Since I wasn't involved with your order or transaction all those years ago, I can't stand behind the deal myself, but I would not hesitate to call Jack and see what I can do even on your behalf. I doubt you'll take me up on my offer, because it serves your business well to be able to recite this experience and not actually get it handled. When you bought your units, UO was very new to this industry. I can assure you the only problems they have right now is too many orders and occasionally a damaged unit from shipping. I sell a LOT of these units to people here on LE. If there were the issues you speak of, I'd have a lynch mob after me. I couldn't afford to be upsetting around 30 people a month. As a matter of fact, if UO didn't make EVERY customer of mine happy, I'd stop selling these units in a heartbeat, but they have made my customers happy... every single one of them.

I wish you well, I really do. Maybe you'll scare a few orders your way... that's cool with me. What ever works for you.
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Old 2008-05-27, 2:12am
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Murf,

I understand your frustration. I know you asked for a refund, because you couldn't wait any longer for your unit. Jack said he was out of town and got your refund handled as soon as he could. It may not have been fast enough to keep you happy. I can't make any calls on how it was handled, because I wasn't involved in your transaction either. I'm still very sorry you weren't happy with how you were treated. I'm an end user too and some times dealing with companies and other peoples time lines just plain sucks for us. I wish there was something I could do for you to make you feel better about UO too. If there ever is, let me know.

I offer a refund to anybody who isn't willing to wait for their order to be shipped. I know the factory is backed up. Jack hears from me all the time on keeping up with the deadlines. I've dealt with him for a long time and I can tell you with out a doubt, he's a stand up guy. Things get in the way and hold up production more than I like... but he's working his tail off to get the orders out as fast as he can. I can't get too upset over things even he can't control. There is a lot involved with getting units, all the new parts, rebuilding and testing them. It's not something I'd enjoy doing for a living... but Jack does and he sends out units at the volume, pressure and purity we need to run our torches properly. He also keeps them at prices most of us can afford. I couldn't ask for more.
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Last edited by Mr. Smiley; 2008-05-27 at 2:27am.
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  #23  
Old 2008-05-27, 2:36am
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The three M-15's that I have work great. Jack is great to work with!!!
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Old 2008-05-27, 8:12am
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it nothing personal here Mr Smiley, my quote from you is merely a quote. My main concern is how can one trust a manufacture that has so misinformed the data as to what their product can run. I took the bait and wow what a bummer.


it doesnt stop there. I contacted you and some other OU dealers requesting that they test these products rather than buy in to just some piece of paper making claims to spare people like me from spend a lot of money only to have a machine that wouldnt do as stated. And it gets worse, some vendors make up there own spec as far as running mirages and multi torches off of a unit that couldn't possibly run even one. if a newbie is interested in making a purchase of a OU product with little to no knowledge of whats what, chance are the experience will be enough to stop them cold in their tracks. that is not right.

we dont see this round about problem with any other item in lampworking; we out grow torches and deal with glass that at times are difficult to work with, but thats part of the game.

price is certainly an issue for a newbie or beyond, just because one can purchase two concentrators for the price of one doesn't in my book add up to a good deal. you get what you pay for, clear and simple. thats not to say one can't have problems with any purchase, but given the fact of the complaints one can find on OU and its parent company makes me ask my self why, whats up? I have yet to locate a bad thread on Regalia, Integra10, and Invacare and or the others, it takes a simple word search in Google to get plenty of stuff on OU.

I requested a refund do to the hurricane not being able to run a Phantom at 90% as stated by the manufacture. the fact is it couldn't even run the out fire at what GTT states is the minimum one should use . I sent the machine back to Jack and it bench tested OK. Well if bench tested ok and fell so short in producing in my shop, certainly OU doesnt know what torches will run on their machine. my refund beef goes well beyond not getting it on time. I wont comment on that here.
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Last edited by murf; 2008-05-27 at 8:26am.
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  #25  
Old 2008-05-27, 8:44am
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Murf. The claims that any concentrator doing more than what it can do bothers me too. You've never seen me say one will do something it can't. I've been honest in public and private about what to expect and how things will work together. I do most of my matching up behind the scenes and I've never had an unhappy customer. I've had to re-educate a few on what's really possible. I treat concentrator sales just like my glass sales... up front and honest.

If you're referring to two M-15s being better than one Regalia... I whole heartedly believe they are. I've seen what two M-15s will do together and I've run the pants off of two M-20s in my own studio. Hands down, I put my name behind the UO units any day of the week.

I've seen some claims that a Regalia will power torches that it just won't... well, it will kind of power it, but in Kimberly's own words, it powers a Cheetah at 65%, yet it's still a recommended match. In my opinion, that's really not a match at all. I think it sends the wrong message to the end user.

It was my understanding that you didn't even get a unit from UO... that you ordered it, but decided to get a refund before it shipped. Is this wrong?

As far as the Hurricane running a Phantom, I have no idea what the specs are for a Phantom. Perhaps Kimberly could post the manufacturers data.

Some times, but not always, it's also the fault of the torch companies. It's not always easy to get good data from them on what their torches require to run. There's so much misinformation out there, that I find it difficult to make suggestions on torches I'm not all that familiar with. I do my very best and am completely honest if I don't know for sure.


I don't dispute the fact that there have been problems with UO units in the past. They don't either. Nothing has ever been swept under the rug. There were purity issues in the beginning, but that was caused by bad information from lampworkers during the development of these units. Somebody told Jack that volume was more important than purity and as soon as he found out different, he addressed that issue. He has addressed every issue that's come up along the way. He has met head on any of those issues you can find by googling. If anything needs to be changed, Jack will listen to us. The difference between the other medical units and what UO offers is important in understanding why one can find more complaints about UO. Those other units are just not offering what UO is and they don't deviate from medical industry outputs. Before 3 years ago, nobody else was willing to listen to our needs for more volume and higher pressure... they still aren't. UO is doing something nobody else has done... and that's why they've had issues. Of course they've had issues... we all do when we try something new. I for one admire and appreciate a company that's willing to invest in what this industry needs and I was willing to let them make mistakes along the way as long as they stood behind it and make things right. They have indeed done that. Some folks have expected perfection from a new idea right away... not me... I just expect them to keep getting better... and they have... much better.

I probably won't ever change your mind about UO... and I can live with that. I've seen some really great things from UO time and time again... to me, that's the most important quality.
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Old 2008-05-27, 8:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by castaway View Post
as I do not have any of the machines being tested, most of this thread is purely academic for me, I have an OGSI 20 have any tests been done with this machine? Whew, it's very hard to get peoples attention on this thread.
B
I didn't mean to ignore you, B. Someone in another thread had asked about testing the OG20 and I had answered, but forgot to answer you, here. Sorry.

I have not yet tested an OG20, yet. I am lining up with people who would like to test their machines with my analyzer, though.
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Old 2008-05-27, 8:59am
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oh ya I got a hurricane and a lot more than I bargained for. I could send you a private link to my experience if you like to know the whole story and it is a long and well documented one.
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  #28  
Old 2008-05-27, 9:00am
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I just talked to Jack and he filled me in. I'm sorry the Hurricane wasn't enough to power your Phantom. I've never claimed that a Phantom can be powered by a Hurricane. Jack said the unit you returned was working properly and he's very sorry your experience was less than satisfactory. Right now, the suggestion for a Phantom is a Hurricane and a booster. If Kimberly will fill us in on that torches requirements, I could match it up with a solution.
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Old 2008-05-27, 9:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley View Post
Kimberly, they had a ton of shipping issues several years ago. The units come with a 3 YEAR warranty now, but I am sure Jack would honor his offer to get you a good working unit. Since I wasn't involved with your order or transaction all those years ago, I can't stand behind the deal myself, but I would not hesitate to call Jack and see what I can do even on your behalf. I doubt you'll take me up on my offer, because it serves your business well to be able to recite this experience and not actually get it handled.
That would be great, Brent, if you don't mind. I know that you are busy, as am I, but if you want to talk to Jack on my behalf about replacing the three replacement units, that would be nice.

Quote:
When you bought your units, UO was very new to this industry. I can assure you the only problems they have right now is too many orders and occasionally a damaged unit from shipping. I sell a LOT of these units to people here on LE. If there were the issues you speak of, I'd have a lynch mob after me. I couldn't afford to be upsetting around 30 people a month. As a matter of fact, if UO didn't make EVERY customer of mine happy, I'd stop selling these units in a heartbeat, but they have made my customers happy... every single one of them.

I wish you well, I really do. Maybe you'll scare a few orders your way... that's cool with me. What ever works for you.
You know, that line about scaring orders my way was really uncalled for. I'm not trying to scare anyone. I got a new tool to test concentrators and reported my findings. If the findings had been positive for my M-20, I would have reported that, too. I'm not doing this for myself. I'm doing this for the community.
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Old 2008-05-27, 9:18am
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I would be happy to arrange for a swap.

I'm heading out of town today, so give me til next week to set something up. I'll be back Monday.

If you can post your opinions about others and how they conduct their business, so can I. I'm sorry that it hurt your feelings, but I still think you're just trying to make sales and I don't believe that your motives or data is above reproach. That's just an opinion... you're entitled to yours and I'm entitled to mine. I've kept 99.9% of my negative opinions of some people out of it. It's tough some times, but I do try.
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