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| Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2013-04-02, 1:30pm
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Angie09
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Join Date: Aug 06, 2009
Posts: 1,788
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Need help please with my new bluebird xl
I have had a paragon SC2 for 3 years and I've just upgraded to the Bluebird XL but have a question. I garage at 920 and now on the Bluebird when I open the door to quickly put a completed bead in, the temperature can go down as much as 30 degrees. Is this normal? Is it ok for the beads? Should I raise my garaging temp? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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2013-04-02, 1:47pm
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...displaced ocean lover
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Join Date: Sep 22, 2009
Location: Sadly about 7000 miles from King Kamehameha Hwy
Posts: 1,661
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I've never garaged that low but maybe we are using different glass. At any rate, I have that kiln and mine will lose heat quickly when I open the door, too. But since I'm at least at 950 depending on what I am doing, it never drops too low. Frankly, I can't imagine that the entire kiln just dropped in temp but just that area by the door. I could be wrong about that. My beads are fine though.
There's a thread on here about stress levels/temp for the beads. And most of the glass sites have something about annealing temps. Maybe check for that info. I'm just mostly sayin' "Yeah, mine too...good luck"!  
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2013-04-02, 2:13pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 31, 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,214
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Try using the door furthest away from the probe and see if that changes the drop in temp. That does seem pretty steep. I would call Paragon and ask them about it. I have one, but I have not used it in a while, but don't remember losing that much heat in just the few seconds to shove in a bead.
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Kathy
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2013-04-02, 2:44pm
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Angie09
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Join Date: Aug 06, 2009
Posts: 1,788
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I may be garaging too low so if I bump it to 950 and it drops it would still be in the range of the 920. I needed more room than the Sc2 gave me......sure hope I didn't make another buying mistake. Ugh!
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2013-04-02, 7:01pm
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Dix Harrison
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Join Date: Mar 31, 2009
Location: KCKS - But my heart is in Scotland
Posts: 526
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Angie:
I used an oven thermometer to check my Bluebird XL and found out the same thing. If you would like to know more about how I adapted my annealing schedule, I'd be happy to share.
Just send me a pm and I'll write it down for you!
Dix
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2013-04-02, 8:20pm
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Sheila Davis Designs
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Join Date: May 23, 2009
Location: Olympia
Posts: 3,351
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I have a Bluebird double door and I garage at 930. It does go down quite a bit, but I've never had a problem with the beads.
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2013-04-02, 9:28pm
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Lampworkaholic!
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Join Date: Apr 22, 2008
Location: Cornelius, NC - because weather
Posts: 5,158
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Mine has dropped as much as 100 degrees if I am moving the beads around. It hasn't been a problem and I garage at 920.
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2013-04-03, 3:20am
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Unmedicated since '62
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Join Date: Jan 18, 2009
Location: Hunter Valley, Australia
Posts: 5,907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheila D.
I have a Bluebird double door and I garage at 930. It does go down quite a bit, but I've never had a problem with the beads.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth Beads
Mine has dropped as much as 100 degrees if I am moving the beads around. It hasn't been a problem and I garage at 920.
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Same, I've never had an issue, I use the left door
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Deb
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2013-04-03, 4:13am
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Angie09
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Join Date: Aug 06, 2009
Posts: 1,788
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Well, I'm feeling a little better about it now then. I thought I made a huge mistake by buying it cuz the smaller SC2 never seemed to do this.....but if that's normal I'll breathe easier today using it. Thank you all for your comments ... it really helps!!
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2013-04-03, 6:13am
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Lampworkaholic!
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Join Date: Apr 22, 2008
Location: Cornelius, NC - because weather
Posts: 5,158
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I also bolted the 2 doors together. I needed 3 hands to manage the double doors.
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2013-04-03, 6:22am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 14, 2012
Location: Bennington, VT
Posts: 1,776
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when i use my xl, i'm usually making pipes and such out of boro....lots of garaging and what not. yes it goes down in temp sometimes 40 degrees but so far nothing has been worse for the wear.
soft glass i imagine might be different, but when i use soft glass one of the doors is always cracked (mandrels sticking out) so the elements just have to work a little harder.
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2013-04-03, 2:43pm
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hyperT
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Join Date: Jan 31, 2013
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 582
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Stress
Would depend on the COE and the strain point of that glass. If you are always above the stress point what could happen?
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2013-04-03, 2:52pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 31, 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth Beads
I also bolted the 2 doors together. I needed 3 hands to manage the double doors.
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I stuck flat round magnets on the upper portion of mine, where the door corners would be. I flip the door up, it sticks to a magnet until I flip it back down.
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Kathy
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2013-04-04, 2:11am
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Unmedicated since '62
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Join Date: Jan 18, 2009
Location: Hunter Valley, Australia
Posts: 5,907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echeveria
I stuck flat round magnets on the upper portion of mine, where the door corners would be. I flip the door up, it sticks to a magnet until I flip it back down.
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Good idea!
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Deb
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2013-04-04, 2:36am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 14, 2012
Location: Bennington, VT
Posts: 1,776
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isn't that how paragon sells them now? my xl came with neodyium (sp?) magnets for the doors. maybe the older ones come w/o magnets.
btw if anybody wants a couple strong rare-earth magnets for their kiln doors just pm me. you pay for shipping the magnets are free....
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2013-04-04, 4:24am
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Angie09
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Join Date: Aug 06, 2009
Posts: 1,788
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Yes, mine came with the magnets to keep the doors open.
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2013-04-04, 6:52am
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Lampworkaholic!
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Join Date: Apr 22, 2008
Location: Cornelius, NC - because weather
Posts: 5,158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperT
Would depend on the COE and the strain point of that glass. If you are always above the stress point what could happen?
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Even if the kiln temperature drops below the strain point (840 F) briefly, the beads won't cool that fast. As soon as the doors close the temperature zooms back up.
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2013-04-04, 6:55am
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Lampworkaholic!
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Join Date: Apr 22, 2008
Location: Cornelius, NC - because weather
Posts: 5,158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echeveria
I stuck flat round magnets on the upper portion of mine, where the door corners would be. I flip the door up, it sticks to a magnet until I flip it back down.
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I wouldn't want to open the doors that wide - unless I was cleaning or kiln-washing a cold kiln - lol!
I open the door as little as possible to put a bead on the rack, or to move a bead over when the rack is full.
Mine came with magnets but they aren't strong enough to hold up the doors anyway......
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"And all will turn to silver glass, a light on the water, grey ships pass into the west." Annie Lennox
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2013-04-04, 9:46am
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Now part of the Dark Side
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Join Date: Jul 02, 2010
Location: North Central PA
Posts: 966
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This is a lesson in thermal mass. The thermocouple probe is low mass, so is the air. As soon as you open the door the hot air rushes out of the kiln. The probe being low mass cools almost as fast as the air so you are seeing the change in air temperature. The bricks, and the glass, have a much higher thermal mass and store the heat. When you close the door you can watch the temperature rise, even if the elements are off. This is because of the heat stored in the kiln. You could slow down the reaction time of the thermocouple by adding a small bolt and nut to it however, this may affect the overall performance of the kiln.
ETA: Yes I am a geek.
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Roy
Hot glass does not crack.
Unless it is glowing and drippy, hot glass looks like cold glass.
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2013-04-04, 11:35am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 31, 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth Beads
I wouldn't want to open the doors that wide - unless I was cleaning or kiln-washing a cold kiln - lol!
I open the door as little as possible to put a bead on the rack, or to move a bead over when the rack is full.
Mine came with magnets but they aren't strong enough to hold up the doors anyway......
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I don't do that for every bead. Just when I want the door open and my hands free.
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Kathy
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