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Safety -- Make sure you are safe! |
2005-06-13, 5:34am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 3
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propyline vs mapp HELP
Hi,
I'm new to your forum.
I found you through another group- Thanks Lynn!!!!
I run a HH. I am tired of the wee little MAPP cannisters and was told that MAPP could be gotten in larger amounts through the local welding supply.
When I called the sales dude said that they have only propyline which is the "same" as MAPP.
That may be true for metal, but is it true for glass?
None of our little group has any experience withis particular gas, and since I would need to buy the tank etc. to find out,
fran I am not too anxious to try it and discover that it wrecks my glass.
HELP!!
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2005-06-13, 6:23am
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Safety ALWAYS
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, Minnesota
Posts: 2,401
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Propylene IS the same as MAPP. Just a different trade name.
Now, be sure you keep your tank OUTSIDE, ok?
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2005-06-13, 8:41am
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
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Actually they are NOT the same chemically
MAPP gas is ...
56% (by Volume) LP Gas (propane)
44% (by Volume) Methyl Acetylene - Propadiene
Propylene is a complete gas in itself (99% by Volume, not a mixture of other gasses).
As for flame quality and a producer of heat, yes the two gases are pretty close to producing same flame and heat.
Here is probably most current information on internet about using HH on bulk fuels.
Bulk Fuel & HH Torch
Dale
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2005-06-13, 11:19am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 257
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Propylene is NOT the same as Mapp- though it is cheaper and may be similar. I had to use a whole tank of propylene that I bought from my gas supplier, thinking it was Mapp- I had asked for Mapp. My clear and white beads were sooty and gray. I called them and asked them if they'd given me Mapp and the said no- they'd given me Propylene. Mapp burns much cleaner. If you do get the propylene I recommend getting a small tank of it to see if it will work for you (it's cheaper). I have a friend who ended up with a 70 lb tank of it, wishing she'd been more specific in requesting Mapp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frannyflannel
Hi,
I'm new to your forum.
I found you through another group- Thanks Lynn!!!!
I run a HH. I am tired of the wee little MAPP cannisters and was told that MAPP could be gotten in larger amounts through the local welding supply.
When I called the sales dude said that they have only propyline which is the "same" as MAPP.
That may be true for metal, but is it true for glass?
None of our little group has any experience withis particular gas, and since I would need to buy the tank etc. to find out,
fran I am not too anxious to try it and discover that it wrecks my glass.
HELP!!
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2005-06-13, 11:31am
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Safety ALWAYS
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, Minnesota
Posts: 2,401
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Right as always, Dale. All I can say is that I had a senior moment. DOH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale M.
Actually they are NOT the same chemically
MAPP gas is ...
56% (by Volume) LP Gas (propane)
44% (by Volume) Methyl Acetylene - Propadiene
Propylene is a complete gas in itself (99% by Volume, not a mixture of other gasses).
As for flame quality and a producer of heat, yes the two gases are pretty close to producing same flame and heat.
Here is probably most current information on internet about using HH on bulk fuels.
Bulk Fuel & HH Torch
Dale
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2005-06-13, 7:51pm
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Ghost Town Glass
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Comox Valley, BC
Posts: 1,685
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I use propylene and have had no problems with soot. After using propane in a class, it seemed much cleaner! I have not tried MAPP, but was told not to by my glass store, since they said propylene was cleaner. I dunno... ???
I agree with Cyndi - start small and see if it works for you.
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2005-06-13, 9:07pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 3
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Wow!
I REALLY appreciate all the feedback.
I will try to get a small bit and see how I like it.
I haven't had any problems with MAPP, so I was hoping to not invite any.
And yes, even though my studio is only in a polebarn, I will keep the tank outside when I graduate from the little 1lb jobs.
I have heard that the fine insurance folks get a bit techy if they find out ya have that stuff inside anything.
Something about voiding the policy......
fran
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2005-06-16, 12:48pm
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Glassy Lady
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 2,905
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MAPP is not available in all areas. I could not find it in bulk locally. I settled on propylene when I worked on a HH. As long as you don't run the HH full tilt, you should not have problems with sooting.
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BHB/PANDORA EXCHANGE IN THE PATIO
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2005-06-16, 1:58pm
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Piscean Fire Goddess
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Tilburg, The Netherlands
Posts: 5,354
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I cant get either of those gases here in Holland, so I use plain old propane.
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Exploring a philosophical fantasy world.
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2005-06-24, 3:00am
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Teagirl
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Join Date: Jun 15, 2005
Posts: 1,089
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It's a real problem outside the US, most places don't stock anything other than the small MAPP canisters and they're horribly expensive.
We moved to propane with the HH and Mike found it less clean than MAPP, but only in some of the transparents. He's on an oxycon and a Minor now but he still thinks the HH does some amazing stuff with MAPP. If it were cheaper to use and quieter he'd still be using a HH.
-Su
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 'Modern glass - Ancient roots'
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2005-07-04, 7:06pm
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one day at a time
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2005
Location: We are MOVING!!!
Posts: 8,319
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It's been a little while since anyone else posted a comment here, but I thought I would add:
I was using a 30lb propylene tank for a year and a half with my HH and have had no problems at all. Vetrofond clear was very nice, for example. I can't get any other fuel in my location other than propane.
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2005-08-21, 7:38am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 07, 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,135
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Propane and Hot Head
I'm still confused about switching to propane.
So I can go buy a 1 lb. canister of propane and attach it to my HH torch just like I do with the MAPP gas? There's a big price difference so I would like to try it.
I know it burns a little hotter, right? Are there any other safety concerns I should know about before hooking up a little propane canister to the HH? I don't want something exploding in my face. I don't have to use oxygen with it also do I?
** Plus my mother needs some reassurance, she was concerned about me switching to propane and blowing something or someone up**
~*Tracy*~
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2005-08-21, 9:12am
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Safety ALWAYS
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, Minnesota
Posts: 2,401
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Propane is no different from MAPP when it comes to switching tanks. If you haven't blown yourself up using MAPP, you won't do it using propane. IF you follow all the standard safety rules.
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2005-08-21, 9:17am
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x_phoenician
I'm still confused about switching to propane.
So I can go buy a 1 lb. canister of propane and attach it to my HH torch just like I do with the MAPP gas? There's a big price difference so I would like to try it.
I know it burns a little hotter, right? Are there any other safety concerns I should know about before hooking up a little propane canister to the HH? I don't want something exploding in my face. I don't have to use oxygen with it also do I?
** Plus my mother needs some reassurance, she was concerned about me switching to propane and blowing something or someone up**
~*Tracy*~
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As for use there is no differenc in using propane and MAPP. Torch will function quite similar on either fuel, and safety procedures are same for either fuel.
Propane actually burns a little cooler than MAPP.... That is why most people tolerate the higher price of MAPP to get the heat...
Dale
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San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
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2005-08-21, 11:21am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 07, 2005
Location: Michigan
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Ok, thanks you two... I appreciate the clarification. Got it.
Tracy
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2005-08-23, 5:44am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 19
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Just a quick suggestion from experience. I was also using a HH and switched to propane since it was cheaper, but...this past week my HH quit working. I tried cleaning it etc., then called the company. They told me the HH and some other torch heads used for lampworking were made for MAPP gas only, or the propane/oxygen set up. Propane can clog the head since the MAPP burns cleaner. I would suggest if you're going to use propane get a regular torch head and save your HH for special beads that you use only with MAPP. I have to admit I like the regular torch head though, because I can see exactly where the flame is and how far to work in/out of it. Best of luck, but I though I'd mention this since I just went through it. On a good note, they sent me a new torch head free of charge! Good luck, Barb H.
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2005-08-23, 8:04am
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
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MAPP Only.... I have serious doubts.
A Hot head will function on Propane, MAPP or Propylene, only difference is Propylene and MAPP tend to be a bit hotter than Propane.
And if I may ask, what is a "regular" torch head.... Are you referring to the hardware store soldering torch for plumbing?
Dale
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San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
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2005-08-23, 8:06am
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Safety ALWAYS
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, Minnesota
Posts: 2,401
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Ditto.
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2005-08-23, 8:13am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 19
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Hey Guys! Sorry, I was just repeating what I was told, since she was very adamant about it. Maybe that's their way of using it for a selling point! So then you guys are saying I should be okay if I use my HH, since I trust you experienced guys more. Thanks Mike and Dale!
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2005-08-23, 8:39am
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb H.
Hey Guys! Sorry, I was just repeating what I was told, since she was very adamant about it. Maybe that's their way of using it for a selling point! So then you guys are saying I should be okay if I use my HH, since I trust you experienced guys more. Thanks Mike and Dale!
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Yes... Use Hot Head... Isn't that why you bought it!
Dale
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San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
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2005-08-23, 8:39am
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Safety ALWAYS
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, Minnesota
Posts: 2,401
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Naw, don't sweat it. They push MAPP because it does burn "a bit" hotter, but propane will work quite well - lots and lots of people use it.
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2005-08-23, 8:45am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 19
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Thanks guys..........now I think I'll call her and tell her! Plus...there's nothing stating that you have to use MAPP on the new one I just received, or it might clog up! Mike...I'll take your non-paying bidder frustration out on her. LOL (hope you got that straightened out!)
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2005-08-23, 8:47am
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Safety ALWAYS
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, Minnesota
Posts: 2,401
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LOL Barb!!!
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2005-08-23, 1:55pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 07, 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,135
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It worked
Barb, I appreciate you mentioning it even if that girl at the company misinformed you. And thanks to Mike and Dale for telling us her info was a bunch'a hooey. I used propane yesterday and I haven't had any problems yet. My bead colors look the same to me as when I use MAPP gas... although when I used this opaque dark turquoise-y green color it had some salmon-pink splotches appear. I don't know if it's just the glass itself but either way I liked the effect.
~*Tracy*~
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