Problems with Insurance and/or CGA (Canada)

StOrM · #1 2008-05-02, 12:42pm

I have some questions for Canadians........

I am setting up my torch right away and Nortel minors are NOT , CGA approved. I have also contected my insurance company (Co-op) and she let me know as long as i am not running a business out of my home (hobby only) which it would be , she would consider it covered. BUT I would have to go through there booklet and figure then out for myself to make sure it is.

either way my question is......

Have any of you had problems or conserns with insurance or CGA approval?
and what information could you give on this subject?

ewdb · #2 2008-05-02, 7:47pm

i'm in the same boat and it's a huge pain since it seems very inconsistent. i work with a Hothead and 1lb propane tanks and so far Cooperators told me they can't cover me cuz the kiln is too "dangerous". i was like ok fine, let me try someone else only to find out from another lampworker in the city that their Cooperators is covering them! grrrr

i'm trying to be totally honest with the brokers but so far hitting a brick wall. i'd be interested to hear what other Cdns are doing insurance-wise (at least those who aren't hding what they do from their insurance company).

StOrM · #3 2008-05-02, 9:42pm

I know when i bought my kiln that it is CGA approved......it is more the torch and gas fitting it that is the problem.....

The way the lady at co-op explained it to me is like this. I would consider it like an iron. If you iron your clothes and something happens with the iron and you leave it on and something happens then you are covered BUT if you did ironing for a living in your home then you would have to get a different plan that covers businesses....so in her mind she sees it like that. The thought i was crazy when i told he that i was going to put a torch in my basement. she said " what the heck are you torching?" and starting laughing and thought i was joking. i told her i was telling her the truth. so then she helped me.
she did tell me i needed to read through the house book that they gave to to make sure i understand what would be covered.

i never mentioned my kiln.....but i can see it being a problem.....but maybe i should ask....

Just Nancy · #4 2008-05-03, 5:03am

One suggestion. I'm from the States but had a similar response at first from my agent. He wanted to know how big of a flame and how it could be safe. I took in a book, Corina's I think. Then he was able to help me. He thought it was going to be some hand held foot long flame or something. He liked that it was bolted in place and not a flame thrower. Maybe a picture would help clear up any confusion.

StOrM · #5 2008-05-03, 8:42am

that does sound like a good idea.....thanks nancy

anyone else have any ideas/stories they can share?

StOrM · #6 2008-05-03, 3:09pm

BUMP.....please respond

IF-Designs · #7 2008-05-03, 3:10pm

check nortel mfg directly they can help you

StOrM · #8 2008-05-03, 3:13pm

I did.....they could not help me....they said they are not CGA approved.

Jody Lee · #9 2008-05-03, 3:32pm

I told my insurance brokerage that I would not be bringing anyone in my studio for teaching or showing around. It's is strictly a "hobby" studio that way, and I do business elsewhere. I filled out the online quote for the ISGB, but it's only good for the US, which doesn't bode well with me for the "international" part, in my opinion. So, I faxed that to my brokerage and told them to do something similar.

to make sure that my inventory was insured and such.

StOrM · #10 2008-05-03, 3:36pm

jody - ok.....so you run a business then?

Jamn! · #11 2008-05-18, 10:48am

Glad I saw this thread again! I need to contact my insurance company. Since I have been selling the ribbons it might be a good idea if I made a second store for the beads so its not lumped in with the $ from the ribbons...

Jody Lee · #12 2008-05-18, 11:02am

Hi Storm,
Sorry - didn't look at this thread in a while..
Yes, I do run a home-based business. Make sure that when you do call insurance companies, you don't say that you're up and running and need insurance - say "I'm thinking of doing this...what are my options, and what do I have to keep in mind?" You may need to look into city bylaws too - same thing here.

Jamn! · #13 2008-05-18, 1:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jodywieler

Hi Storm,
Sorry - didn't look at this thread in a while..
Yes, I do run a home-based business. Make sure that when you do call insurance companies, you don't say that you're up and running and need insurance - say "I'm thinking of doing this...what are my options, and what do I have to keep in mind?" You may need to look into city bylaws too - same thing here.

Those are really good suggestions!

JulieV · #14 2012-01-25, 8:12am

Just wondering if there is any new information about a basement studio in Canada. I'll be getting all set up in my fella's house before the year is out and need to start thinking of insurance. He is currently changing over to Cooperators; I heard they now have coverage?

Judy D. · #15 2012-01-26, 3:00pm

I'm in the US and haven't mentioned this to my agent yet as I'm still setting up. I already have business insurance and don't anticipate a problem. So I can't address the particularly Canadian issues. But in general, insurance companies (and thus agents, if they're doing their jobs) are exceedingly cautious and inclined to say no whenever they don't actually understand something. So I'd say go prepared. Have one of the published books with safety info in it, have photos of your setup, your fire-extinguisher placement, your sign on the wall reminding you of the proper procedures, etc. Invite the agent to come and see your setup. Explain what it is you do and what all you've done to be sure it is safe. I think as for Nancy, more information is going to help. Remember, when an insurance agent hears "torch," it forms a mental picture quite different from the reality of a bead torch. Also, the more information you give them, the more it will make them realize you know what you're doing and you have figured out how to be safe at it.

Hope there is some successful resolution in place there for all of you.

clay1098 · #16 2012-01-26, 9:16pm

Hey Julie!!
Glad to hear you're making the move in! It's Cheryl from Red Deer!
Just went through this with the move to the new house...our coverage is with Cooperators and as long as the majority of your income ISN'T from bead/marble making, you're covered, as it's a hobby. However, this covers my studio in the garage...there may be different rules as the studio is in the basement. The catch is how much money you make from it - according to our agent.
Shoot me a pm if you get a chance - love to catch up with you!
Cheryl

JulieV · #17 2012-01-27, 6:05am

Cheryl! Great to hear from you! Will pm ya.

laserglass · #18 2012-02-21, 6:11am

just stop with the business stuff!!!!! its not a business, it is a hobby!!!! if you give up with the concept that you will be teaching, or selling out of your studio, then home owners policies will cover you. but you still need to follow all safety guidelines including ventilation.

IMHO, it is a business when you can support your family with your sales.

you may wish to purchase a cheap business liability policy to cover things that could happen when you are selling at shows.

JulieV · #19 2012-02-21, 6:30am

I never was calling it a business; just a hobby. And a few years ago, I added selling at shows to my already existing liability insurance.

Dasi · #20 2012-02-21, 11:09am

I don't know about Canada but as stated above, as long as you are lampworking as a hobby and do not sell you work, you are ok. For insurance purposes. They do not care if you are operating a torch for hobby purposes. Just don't sell anything you make.

I had to shut down my on line business, even selling silver, since it was operating a business from the home. It did not matter how much I sold on line or if it was even profitable. It was considered a business to sell on line and voided my homeowners. I said everyone sells hobby made items and resells items on ebay and etsy so why????? Insurance company said NO... Technically they should not be selling on line. I have been fighting with my insurance company for about a year.

I am posting for those that sell on line. Do not tell your insurance companies anything about selling on line..... Just a hobby.... no sales. I just give it away.

laserglass · #21 2012-02-22, 5:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dasi

I don't know about Canada but as stated above, as long as you are lampworking as a hobby and do not sell you work, you are ok. For insurance purposes. They do not care if you are operating a torch for hobby purposes. Just don't sell anything you make.

I had to shut down my on line business, even selling silver, since it was operating a business from the home. It did not matter how much I sold on line or if it was even profitable. It was considered a business to sell on line and voided my homeowners. I said everyone sells hobby made items and resells items on ebay and etsy so why????? Insurance company said NO... Technically they should not be selling on line. I have been fighting with my insurance company for about a year.

I am posting for those that sell on line. Do not tell your insurance companies anything about selling on line..... Just a hobby.... no sales. I just give it away.

no no, you can sell the stuff you make in your hobby studio, just not from the studio. if you sell it at craft fairs, or via the internet like at ebay, that is OK.

Judy D. · #22 2012-02-22, 11:39am

It's important to remember, I believe, that your ultimate goal is that in the very unlikely event of a loss, your insurance covers your losses.

Toward that end, among other things, you simply have to be perfectly clear and honest with your agent/underwriter about what, precisely, you are doing. It would not serve you well to be intentionally vague about whether you are selling or not, and then have them question the validity of a claim as a result, if you have a loss. It's painful, but true, that they pretty much have all the power. You may know you are operating safely, but they are trying to contain their exposure. Your goal is to not have a loss, but if you do, to receive the expected compensation, in order to restore your home/studio. Don't lose sight of the forest in measuring trees. You may be able to operate as a business under the radar of your insurance underwriter, but it may also come back to bite you in a very big way should they find this out only after you make a claim.

Just another two-cent's worth.

Judy

Dasi · #23 2012-02-22, 11:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by laserglass

no no, you can sell the stuff you make in your hobby studio, just not from the studio. if you sell it at craft fairs, or via the internet like at ebay, that is OK.

NO, no no... I have been fighting with them for one year... I had to shut my shopping cart on my website. No selling on line. I have argued with my insurance company over and over. I finally had to drop it. If you are manufacturing for business purposes you can not do that from your home. You can not sell on line and ship out from your home. We have all voided our policies if we actually read the fine print.

I had a claim (not studio related) that recently opened a big can of worms.... Not our fault. Insurance paid without problems BUT they saw tons of beads sitting out in my studio. Told me I better not be selling them. It is a hobby only..... I can not sell. I then asked about the sterling silver I import and sell and the insurance said no selling period!!!! Not even the silver on line.....

I have tried to see if there is any way around it... I think my daugher Shira may start to sell from her place.... with my help.......

JulieV · #24 2012-02-23, 8:10am

Yikes! Glad it's not that way in Canada.