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  #31  
Old 2010-09-18, 11:14am
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Thanks Holly!
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  #32  
Old 2010-09-18, 2:58pm
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I just came from a bead meeting where I asked someone with a tut about a tool; I'm dirt poor right now and I see NO point in buying a tut if I don't have the correct tool. Not once but twice, I heard the phrase "it's in my tut...."

All I'm trying to say is ...If you expect to be paid... make it quality. Great pics, edited copy (never using phrases that make my eyes bleed such as "other then" and "your gonna love it").

Can I say how odd it is that those of you who are so vocal... are damn fine writers???
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  #33  
Old 2010-09-18, 3:03pm
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Suzy, the twistie thing was a tut on how to use them. The writer droned on about how special her twisties are and that they are her trademark and she couldn't possibly ever share how she makes them... won't even make them in class... whatever.

But the point of her tut was HOW TO USE THEM. But she spent so much space telling the reader that she would never show how to make them (something I did NOT expect to learn anyway), I still felt cheated. And I liked my own twisties just fine until I started wondering about just how many ways can there be to make them...

It's same as the classes I used to take from a well known painter. I was pretty darn happy at the end of a $500 / 2 day weekend until she casually mentioned she never teaches her color combos... I would have never noticed, until she said that.
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  #34  
Old 2010-09-18, 4:52pm
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lol! You have to wonder if they just needed to feel unique or special. How can one make a twisty so special it should be a secret? Don't answer, I don't want to feel inadequate either
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  #35  
Old 2010-09-18, 6:46pm
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Where is this tutorial about twisties?
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  #36  
Old 2010-09-18, 7:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly'sFolly View Post
Can I say how odd it is that those of you who are so vocal... are damn fine writers???


I gave most of my opinions in PM's to Holly and we had a nice discussion.
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  #37  
Old 2010-09-18, 8:20pm
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I don't usually like to comment on discussions like this one because things written don't always come across as they were intended and I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings or make anyone feel like this is criticism....it is not intended that way at all! I love each and every one I have purchased and find them all to be extremely well written and great illustrations. Just a few little things I would like to see done differently.
I have purchased so many tutorials that I have two large binders full and several in folders on my computer that haven't been and probably won't be printed out. You might say I am a tutoriaholic...if there is such a word. LOL.

The one thing I have decided on any future purchases is that a material list prior to purchasing is a must. I cannot see how letting the buyer know what is needed to accomplish the project is going to give away the technique. If a technique can be figured out just by giving a material list then why would I want to spend good money for it? Speaking for myself there is no way I would figure out a technique simlply by the list of glass required. Secondly, too many times the "readily available" glass has not been all that easy to find. For one glass needed I cannot tell you how many suppliers I checked out before I finally found it. Some tutorials required variety of expensive glass. Yes I could probably substitue but I like to do my first attempt just as the author has written the tutorial...after that one then most of the time I am going to do my own thing.
The tutorials have gotten longer and more expensive to print out so most of the time I just jot down notes etc. I have noticed in several that a lot of words could have been saved. The author's background etc. could easily be posted at the sight where the purchase is made rather than using extra pages as part of the tut.

As I said I certainly do not mean for this to sound like grumbling, complaining etc.
Colleen
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  #38  
Old 2010-09-18, 8:45pm
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Colleen,

Very well said! That was my issue today... the technique I was interested in requires another tool that is NOT cheap. And I see no point in buying the tut until I can afford said tool...
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  #39  
Old 2010-09-18, 9:13pm
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For the record, my side of the debate was not in disagreement with ANY of your tips. The tips are top shelf, not that you need me to tell you that. LOL

Tutorial writers aren't a group of people getting together and writing this stuff. They are individuals with their own reasons, their own perceptions and their own motives. Painting us with a broad brush is unfair. That was my only debate with your article...that first paragraph that feels like a dressing down.

The rest (the bits about the 'left unsaid' tip) was constructive discussion if you ask me. I don't disagree with that tip. The premise is good, but at the same time I have to watch out for liability and my responsibility to the buyers.

I absolutely LOVE the idea of the handy hints cards. What a convenient, compact format! I wish I had some of those myself.

Amy, it's a shame you didn't feel you could contribute openly to this discussion, or maybe you just didn't feel like it. I would have been very interested in what you think. Plus, I'm nosy and now I feel like I missed something. LOL

~~Mary

Oh...and yeah. I'd be miffed if I bought a tutorial and found out I needed an expensive tool before I could follow along with the lesson. I can see not divulging too much color information or a common secret ingredient but never anything expensive or hard to find. That's whack.

I've said pretty much all I need to say so I'm going to bow out of this one. I feel like I'm getting overly invested. Your tips are good and appreciated and when it boils down to it, that was what you wanted.
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  #40  
Old 2010-09-18, 9:30pm
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Mary, sometimes my mouth gets me into trouble and I didn't want to come across bitchy when I'm actually not feeling bitchy. I don't want to waste it, ya know? I was typing out a public response when Holly PM'd me so I took my comments to personal messages instead. I took issue with this sentence (which she has since tweaked a little):

Many tutorial writers have been selling their tutorials with the stipulation that the reader may not make the beads for sale. HUH??? Just what do you think they are buying the tutorial for?

Obviously I didn't take that statement personally because anyone can use my storming technique how they want in their own work after purchasing the tutorial. It's just a "fact" she threw in that I wanted her to back up so I asked her for a list. This whole subject of tutorials for sale with a stipulation that you can't make the beads and sell them was brought up a couple years ago and proven false. I wanted to know if someone was doing it now...and I don't think anyone is. If someone (or "many") is then I'm just not aware of it. That was about it. Then we got off on a tangent about the rubber stamp industry. Personally I would never purchase a tutorial if I couldn't make the beads and sell them so I agree with that part. I just don't know of anyone actually stating that.
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  #41  
Old 2010-09-19, 5:40am
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very good, i've bookmarked it for the future (when hell freezes over and i'm good enough to write tutorials! )
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  #42  
Old 2010-09-19, 6:10am
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Thank you for opening this discussion, Holly. I think you make a lot of interesting points and I appreciate tips from a editing standpoint on the subject of writing tutorials.

One of the big issues, as a person diving into Creating Tuts or Teaching, is trying to figure out how you're going to communicate the info.
I'm interested in figuring out the process so that I can give the best value and most inspiration to those who might wish to see/experience it.
(When you're figuring it out on your own, it can be tricky )

I have found that I've sold more of my felt bead-making tuts than my felted wool beads at this point. One reason being, I'm sure, that I won't "low-ball" the price on my beads because of the effort & time required to make them. In this economy, they likely come across as too expensive. That's ok. I'd rather keep them for myself or give them as gifts from the heart to others or trade them with other Artists for their Creations or supplies.

Sure I'd love to sell more of my Creations, but I've learned that you need to sell it in the proper niche. (An example of which is things like $49 "designer" tank tops. Yes, that was a googled price result that came up for a basic, one colour tank top by D&G! Not my cup o' tea, but I can understand that there are many reasons why people spend their money and when folks part with their ca$h, the reason is always valid to them. Live and let live. As humans, we have free choice.)

Thank you again (and to all the others here) for putting yourself out there to have this discussion.
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  #43  
Old 2010-09-19, 7:02am
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Gems- I don't want to call any one author out. I know many glass workers in person and while I may disagree with someone's personal style of presenting a tut, I still like her.

Mary & Kandice - I was not "dressing down" anyone. It was more MY frustration with the quality of writing being sold.

Mary, I also agree on the colors... maybe a materials list with pre-purchase...
----
As I clarified with Amy in our PM exchange - the "not using the tut to make beads for sale" was a VERBAL complaint by a VERY famous lampwork in a class. She does not put that in her tuts but I was very surprised at her take on it since she has just started writing tuts....
-----

Merry Mary - I was simply hoping to foster better communication. IF there is something the tutorial writer feels hits a nerve... maybe it's something to be improved on.

But communication is the key. I've been a teacher of jewelry making since I was 17. I've ALWAYS given my class a handout (tutorial) to take home so that they can duplicate what I've taught. As a perpetual student myself, I am often amazed at the bad teachers out there and equally perplexed by the ones that never give printed directions. (Or worse, the ones that send you home with a packet of "biographical information!" Duh! I KNOW who you are... that's WHY I wanted to take your class!!!)

As a writer, I was blessed to ghostwrite an article for a B2B (Business to Business) magazine. The subject matter was about the way people learn. It made me realize MY own shortcomings as a teacher. It REALLY hit a nerve.

Yes, I actually thought all those people who ask a kajillion questions, interrupting my lecture to ask the very thing I was trying to tell them were simply trying to annoy ME! NO! It is the way they LEARN. Since that style of learning is polar opposite to the way I learn - they drove me nuts! ( I am a read and try it type) Once I realized that it was ME failing them, it totally changed my teaching style. I am forever on the lookout for these types in my classes and making adjustments during class to make their experience as good as the rest.
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Last edited by Holly'sFolly; 2010-09-19 at 7:04am. Reason: typo"
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  #44  
Old 2010-09-19, 7:26am
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Kimberly,

It seemed to me that the ones being focal seemed offended at my post. It's odd to me that the good writers were.

I co-manage a bead promotion group, the Fire Divas. Whenever we post on our private board about some issue that needs clearing up, it amazes me at how many come in to say they are sorry and yet the ones the post was aimed at... never say a word.

Re your question. Maybe just post that a revised edition is available. Or if you publish by hidden link, send an user name and password to previous customers.
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  #45  
Old 2010-09-19, 7:26am
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I have been reading all this, and I have to say, I couldnt agree more. Short, sweet and to the point is the best apporch to any tut. Free is even better.
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  #46  
Old 2010-09-19, 10:16am
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I have been reading all this, and I have to say, I couldnt agree more. Short, sweet and to the point is the best apporch to any tut. Free is even better.
lol
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  #47  
Old 2010-09-19, 11:15am
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Kimberly ...this says it all
(((It is just way to difficult to try to please everyone)))

Your never gonna do it...someone will always gripe......Just to gripe so I'd say don't try....so many have learned so much from you....don't let one ruin it for the rest of us.
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  #48  
Old 2010-09-19, 11:37am
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I don't know, but I feel good that my photo tut has helped hundreds of people take better photos so they can sell their beads and jewelry on the internet. It's not an expensive tut by any means. I make no apologies for charging money for it, it's a lot of information and if I gave it away for free it would take a web site to do so. I'm proud of that.

For years people PM'd me for help with their photos and I tried to help them as best I could. I wrote one person a freaking tome and they didn't even thank me for it. lol

It was a lot of work explaining everything, taking over 100 photos and screen captures of Photoshop, editing it all into 70 pages. It took 2 months to do it. The goddess bead tut required video editing as well.

I have seen some tutorials out there for stuff I can't believe someone is charging money for. I look at the beads and think "someone needs a tutorial for that? Isn't that self explanatory?". But maybe it's not for other people. Some people require step by step instruction to make a dot bead. Geez, it took me 7 years to make a semi decent floral. lol
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  #49  
Old 2010-09-19, 11:50am
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If Holly'sFolly is talking about a "famous" or maybe "infamous" lampworker from her area who is just starting to write tutorials, that is an easy guess...and Mary Moth, you should know her pretty well!!
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  #50  
Old 2010-09-19, 12:49pm
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To the tutorial writers on the verge of suicide over this. CALM DOWN. You are over-reacting. I very much doubt these suggestions were meant to destroy you.

You don't have to edit what you have done, you don't have to stop selling them. These were suggestions given to the community as a whole, not a rant at an individual by a professional. They were given by someone who has the job of tearing things to pieces everyday, whose whole job is to make it professional, perfect. You do not have to take this advice. You do not have to agree. People have different opinions. How many award winning authors think Twilight was a load of crap? (probably 90%) How much of the public loved it, how much money did she make selling it? Just goes to show you how critics aren't always right. (edit: I thought of another example of a popular book that had trouble being published. Anne of Green Gables was turned down every time the author tried for years before it was finally published, the publishers thought no one would care about a red headed orphan with a slight temper)

At the end of the day if you are happy with what you have made that is all that matters. You can never please everyone. You are only going to be miserable if you try.

Last edited by TheSilicaForge; 2010-09-19 at 1:41pm.
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  #51  
Old 2010-09-19, 12:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly'sFolly View Post
And Amy, I purchased your tut since I originally wrote that piece (and Kim's first set as well) . Both of yours are well done.

I have to admit that I've "known" both of you in the sense I was aware of your company Beeswax for many years and I know Kim was a pro writer. I was fairly certain, because of your background and Kim's that your tuts would be worth the price.

The camaraderie issue has happened to me more on a one on one basis. I'm more of the type... if you share something with me in a situation like that, I would RATHER buy a BEAD or set and support another artist that way. Or take a class and buy a bead if they teach. I'm often so shocked when someone says something like that to me that I buy nothing... no beads, no tuts, never a class!
This just sounds so entitled to me - as if you are entitled to the info - and for free, no less.
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  #52  
Old 2010-09-19, 1:19pm
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As someone who has never written (and never will) a tutorial I found the article a little off putting especially when the writer admits that she hasn't even bought any tutorials. It is written as though you have bought several and found them lacking in the areas that you mentioned.

As I was reading them I was thinking back over the numerous tutorials I've bought and I didn't think it applied to any of them. Especially the part about not selling the beads. Almost all my tuts say I can copy them exactly if I want to and sell them. One suggested that it would be better if I made them my own though.

I like wordy. I want to know exactly what's going on in the beaders head. I want to feel s(he) is right in front of me talking me thru the process. Sometimes I do take shorthand notes out to the torch with me but they are only to jog my memory of what I read. Months later if I look at those notes they usually make no sense to me.

I know for a fact that my bead making has 100% improved (and my photos too) in the last 18 months due to the tutorials. I don't have the money, time or availability of classes so I really appreciate all the hard work all the writers have done to enable me to perfect my craft.

Please don't stop make tutorials!!!
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  #53  
Old 2010-09-19, 1:45pm
TheSilicaForge TheSilicaForge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kandice View Post
This is absolutely uncalled for. You don't have any right to dictate how people should feel.
it was a joke to a reaction that i found silly ... not a dication on how to feel ....
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  #54  
Old 2010-09-19, 2:48pm
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Silica - Well said.

Kimberly, I appreciate tutorials... especially well written ones. That was my ONLY point. I know plenty of folks that feel the same way. The only tut of yours I've read is the seahorse one on the website (magazine)? - I've never tried the bead but I remember reading it and thinking "Wow, she makes that sound easy!" That's good writing!

Pittypat - I never said that lampwoker was local. Don't ASS U ME....

Squid, I don't feel entitled to ANYTHING. I am one of the most generous people. I am forever being asked to edit stuff FOR FREE... and I'm dirt poor and in need of a job NOW!

But, I belong to a HUGE bead group. We meet regularly and there is forever an exchange of ideas as you move about greeting people... "Oh wow! is that silvered ivory? But what did you use over it." "OMG, HOW did you do that?" It's a constant exchange of ideas and yet not one of us makes beads that look like anyone else's. And... people bring beads and dyed ribbons and tools and handmade accessories ranging from displays to sterling findings all to SELL. It's a fun place. To be told, in this setting of ideas flowing back and forth "buy my tut" TWICE when the person has even demoed the same technique when all I was asking was bout a TOOL...if that makes me entitled...

And let me clarify again. I wrote that about a year ago. I have since purchased tuts BUT I research carefully before spending... If they have a blog, I read it. If they are someone on Facebook that I follow, I read their page for a bit BEFORE purchasing.

While I haven't paid for one that had horrible photos, if I did, I would likely ask for my money back...
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Last edited by Holly'sFolly; 2010-09-19 at 2:50pm. Reason: typo
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Old 2010-09-19, 2:52pm
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Forgot to add in my note to Squid: In addition, I purchase from this same artist multiple times. I SUPPORT her in her efforts.
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Old 2010-09-19, 4:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimberly View Post
...I also did not quit making beads to write tutorials. I enjoy writing and thought the tutorials were great for those who cannot take classes. I still feel that way...
Which makes them (tutorials) perfect for me. And each time a new one comes out...I get it... Well, not lately but I do have wish list!
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Old 2010-09-19, 5:24pm
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Ack, as a lover of tutorials, please please don't feel this way. Without online forums and tutorials I would not be doing what I love as a job. I appreciate you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimberly View Post
Here is a link to a ton of free tutorials right here on this site.

http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10903

Also, Google the technique you wish to learn and you will find a TON of tutorials - FREE. Try Youtube - tons there also. There is a plethora of free information out there - ever heard of a library?? I have a card - do you?? You can check out books, video, request things - all for free (except that YOUR taxes pay for it, but hey - look at it as a sunk cost). The only thing these free things require from you is a bit of your time.

I am done now with this thread - it makes me feel like the efforts of tutorial authors are neither appreciated nor wanted. I hate feeling that I have to defend myself as a writer, lampworker and teacher. I have a tutorial almost ready but I am not sure now if I will go ahead with it. It is just way to difficult to try to please everyone.. Life is too short for that.
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Old 2010-09-19, 5:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly'sFolly View Post
Silica - Well said.

Kimberly, I appreciate tutorials... especially well written ones. That was my ONLY point. I know plenty of folks that feel the same way. The only tut of yours I've read is the seahorse one on the website (magazine)? - I've never tried the bead but I remember reading it and thinking "Wow, she makes that sound easy!" That's good writing!

Pittypat - I never said that lampwoker was local. Don't ASS U ME....

Squid, I don't feel entitled to ANYTHING. I am one of the most generous people. I am forever being asked to edit stuff FOR FREE... and I'm dirt poor and in need of a job NOW!

But, I belong to a HUGE bead group. We meet regularly and there is forever an exchange of ideas as you move about greeting people... "Oh wow! is that silvered ivory? But what did you use over it." "OMG, HOW did you do that?" It's a constant exchange of ideas and yet not one of us makes beads that look like anyone else's. And... people bring beads and dyed ribbons and tools and handmade accessories ranging from displays to sterling findings all to SELL. It's a fun place. To be told, in this setting of ideas flowing back and forth "buy my tut" TWICE when the person has even demoed the same technique when all I was asking was bout a TOOL...if that makes me entitled...

And let me clarify again. I wrote that about a year ago. I have since purchased tuts BUT I research carefully before spending... If they have a blog, I read it. If they are someone on Facebook that I follow, I read their page for a bit BEFORE purchasing.

While I haven't paid for one that had horrible photos, if I did, I would likely ask for my money back...
I understand you disagree with me, but I am telling you how it comes across. You ask someone questions and when they decline to answer and tell you it is in a tutorial they will have out soon, you are offended and as a result do not buy beads, tutorials or anything else from that person. That sounds entitled to me.
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Old 2010-09-19, 6:34pm
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Whoa.. Whoa... my friends..... my fellow melters of glass... what happened while I was away at Fusing 101???
This is it in a nut shell.
Some need tutorials
Some need tutorials with lots of pics
Some need tutorials with less words
Some need tutorials super condensed due to being more skilled in certain areas
Some need 6 tutorials on the exact same skill due to lack of said skill...heehee*
Some need only free tutorials because they are in a moola crunch
Some don't mind the price of a tutorial because it's still cheaper than a class(most of the time)
Some need a tutorial for inspirational purposes only
Some need a tutorial based only on who the author is (seriously)
Some do not need tutorials at all and are self taught all the way (I'm guessing on this one)

Don't you see? There is no possible way to take care of every one of these people with one tutorial.
So, do what you do. Write about what you're good at, what you've perfected, what you've discovered. Those of us who want them... will buy them. If we don't like them...well, maybe we learned something from it and will begin to perfect our own ability to pick and choose which ones to buy or who to buy from. It's all good. We are all good and getting better based on listening to each other, reading each others tuts, looking at each other's pics and practicing practicing practicing.
Right?
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Old 2010-09-19, 6:37pm
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well said Lynn
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