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  #1  
Old 2011-07-12, 3:39pm
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Default Buying "Used" Tutorials

Someone in the GS is selling their entire lampworking set up. One of the things they are selling is what looks to be a big book of tutorials they have paid for and printed out and have put into a binder.

I emailed the seller and asked to buy that book. Then, someone posted in the GS asking if these were tutorials they bought. Is that a "bad thing"? I was under the understanding that it was OKAY to purchase this kind of stuff if the original seller gave up all rights of use. Kinda like when you sell computer software. So, it's not like she is making copies of this stuff and selling off to different people. I think she is just selling ALL of her lampworking supplies and this notebook full of tutorials happens to be one of her "tools".

Any thoughts?

--Monica
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  #2  
Old 2011-07-12, 3:41pm
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For the most part selling e-books is a no-no. Selling a real physical book (not just a print off of an E-book) is ok.
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  #3  
Old 2011-07-12, 3:41pm
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You can't sell software unless it is unopened with the license code never used. In fact, even then it might not be legal ( the courts are still working the issue out)
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  #4  
Old 2011-07-12, 3:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polgarra View Post
You can't sell software unless it is unopened with the license code never used. In fact, even then it might not be legal ( the courts are still working the issue out)
Oh really? I didn't know that. I guess I was thinking like games and stuff... like Sims or other computer games. Okay. Well, I didn't know that. I sold a few Sims games before.

And, I was also thinking of it along the lines of a book or magazine. You use it and then give it away or sell it. If it's illegal or even a big enough no no that some of the people on here selling tutorials would be angry about, I won't buy it. I really thought it was something harmless.

Thanks for the input.

--Monica
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  #5  
Old 2011-07-12, 4:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polgarra View Post
You can't sell software unless it is unopened with the license code never used. In fact, even then it might not be legal ( the courts are still working the issue out)
I don't think that is entirely true - if you bought the actual CD, you can sell it if you uninstall it first. If you buy a digital version only, it's different.
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  #6  
Old 2011-07-12, 4:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squid View Post
I don't think that is entirely true - if you bought the actual CD, you can sell it if you uninstall it first. If you buy a digital version only, it's different.
Well, I am basing the statement on a court case. A guy was selling unopened software in eBay and the company sued him. In the courts I believe he won but it might be up for appeal. I am not sure what the court cases say about opened CDs. But realize that they have more money so I would never sell it on eBay or someplace high profile, ya know what I mean? And this could all change tomorrow.

Besides what she is really asking is what the court of public opinion says. I have read the threads. I wouldn't do it.
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  #7  
Old 2011-07-12, 5:10pm
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Selling off ebooks would be going against the copyright terms most of us have in our tutorials. Mine has this in it:
This tutorial is for your own personal use so please don't pass it on or share it with anyone. You may print out a copy for yourself.
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  #8  
Old 2011-07-12, 5:31pm
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Okay, I have another question along this line.

I have a folder filled with photos of beads that I liked and forum threads that explained a particular technique. I also have copies of tutorials that were offered for free from websites, I think Cauldron Creations was one of them. I loaned this folder to a friend of mine when she caught the lampwork bug.

I have not passed on anything that I paid for, or had a copyright notation on it, just my inspiration folder.

Is this wrong?
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  #9  
Old 2011-07-12, 5:33pm
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If it is free then I can't imagine it is a problem unless there was a specific provision ( which I doubt)
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  #10  
Old 2011-07-12, 5:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennefer View Post
Okay, I have another question along this line.

I have a folder filled with photos of beads that I liked and forum threads that explained a particular technique. I also have copies of tutorials that were offered for free from websites, I think Cauldron Creations was one of them. I loaned this folder to a friend of mine when she caught the lampwork bug.

I have not passed on anything that I paid for, or had a copyright notation on it, just my inspiration folder.

Is this wrong?
Nope
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  #11  
Old 2011-07-12, 5:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polgarra View Post
Well, I am basing the statement on a court case. A guy was selling unopened software in eBay and the company sued him. In the courts I believe he won but it might be up for appeal. I am not sure what the court cases say about opened CDs. But realize that they have more money so I would never sell it on eBay or someplace high profile, ya know what I mean? And this could all change tomorrow.

Besides what she is really asking is what the court of public opinion says. I have read the threads. I wouldn't do it.
Are you talking about the AutoCAD case? Because HE sued THEM.
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  #12  
Old 2011-07-12, 5:46pm
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Thanks for the responses to my question.

Now I won't have to do a drive-by and steal the folder back.
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  #13  
Old 2011-07-12, 5:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squid View Post
Are you talking about the AutoCAD case? Because HE sued THEM.
You are good! Yes I was. And I was wrong, you are correct, he did sue them for the right to sell.
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  #14  
Old 2011-07-13, 9:03am
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I believe that Amy has it right. Transfer of ownership should be one of the items that is covered in the contract terms agreed to at the time of purchase. If not.....The original seller/author may be SOL.
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  #15  
Old 2011-07-13, 9:05am
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It's unethical
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  #16  
Old 2011-07-17, 11:45pm
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interesting.... I'm gonna have to change some wording on the website. I have no problem with people freely sharing the free tutorials that I made, but I do have a problem with them being sold. Other tutorial authors on my website would need to be contacted for permission to share, sell etc... their tutorials.
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  #17  
Old 2011-07-19, 11:25pm
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My thought is that when you are buying a tutorial you are purchasing the information for your own use, and unlike software you can not uninstall/unlearn the information from your brain. I don't think it is right, legal or ethical to sell this information. Most tutorial I have purchased have a statement that reads basically this information is not to be passed along to anyone other than the original purchaser/ reciever. I saw the GS thread you are refferring to and thought it was wrong for them to be selling it.
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  #18  
Old 2011-07-21, 8:05pm
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What would be the difference between buying an e-book tutorial and reselling it vs buying printed tutorial book and reselling it?
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  #19  
Old 2011-07-21, 8:22pm
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Ebooks and other digital media do not have the same Doctrine of First Sale protection that a printed book does.
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  #20  
Old 2011-07-22, 5:26am
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I think that as long as someone is getting out of lamp working, it is okay to pass along her printed tutorials to the buyer of her equipment. As long as she doesn't sell them separately. But to give them to whoever buys her setup is reasonable. As long as she doesn't give them to everyone who buys a little piece of equipment or sell them separately. Just my two cents. YMMV.
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  #21  
Old 2011-07-22, 7:41am
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If the person is giving up lampworking altogether, is selling the stuff she's printed out on a one-time, this is it, I'm not using this stuff anymore and doesn't keep copies on her computer, I don't see a darned thing wrong with selling the binder. The binder, paper, printer ink all cost her money. I find the idea that you buy it and it disappears forever if you decide never to use it again or keep a copy e-book doctrine very impractical.
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  #22  
Old 2011-07-22, 12:18pm
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Actually, it looks like the guy who sued Autodesk for the right to sell used CAD software lost in appeal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_v._Autodesk,_Inc.

Personally, I don't agree with the appeal ruling. I believe once you own it, it's yours to do with as you wish, including resell the software (e-book tutorial in the case of our discussion), as long as (like with paper books) you delete it from your computer and won't have access to the material after you've sold it. Of course, this brings on a whole slew of issues, because if you agree with basic "ownership rights" in general, then you can escalate the issue all the way to asking the question "is it ok for people who own pets to abuse them" and of course the answer there is no.

"Ownership rights" is a very messy question. It is the main reason why we had to enforce that African Americans and women weren't property, because if you applied ownership rights to them you'd get all sorts of ugly, inhumane situations.
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Last edited by Lyssa; 2011-07-22 at 12:28pm. Reason: further explanation
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  #23  
Old 2011-07-22, 12:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyssa View Post
Actually, it looks like the guy who sued Autodesk for the right to sell used CAD software lost in appeal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_v._Autodesk,_Inc.
That link didn't work (it moved the period out of the url) but it took me here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_v._Autodesk,_Inc. and it said it was remanded for further proceedings. Sounds like it's not done yet.
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Old 2011-07-22, 12:28pm
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Ok, fixed the link. Thanks for that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by squid View Post
That link didn't work (it moved the period out of the url) but it took me here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_v._Autodesk,_Inc. and it said it was remanded for further proceedings. Sounds like it's not done yet.
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Old 2011-07-22, 2:19pm
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Quote:
On April 13, Vernor received an extension of time to petition the Supreme Court for certiorari, to May 18, 2011.
Seems to be over, if Vernor hasn't petitioned the Supreme Court for certiorari. Not to mention that the Supreme Court grants review in less than 5% of petitions filed.
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Old 2011-07-22, 4:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKDesigns View Post
Selling off ebooks would be going against the copyright terms most of us have in our tutorials. Mine has this in it:
This tutorial is for your own personal use so please don't pass it on or share it with anyone. You may print out a copy for yourself.

Most of the tutorial PDF's I've purchased have this same kind of wording in them. I wouldn't resell them and I wouldn't buy them from anyone other than the original artist/author.
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  #27  
Old 2011-07-22, 6:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loribeads View Post
Most of the tutorial PDF's I've purchased have this same kind of wording in them. I wouldn't resell them and I wouldn't buy them from anyone other than the original artist/author.
I understand this, but where is the ethical harm in providing the printed copies with the rest of her lamp working equipment? If the seller is getting out of the business, she will no longer be using them and the buyer will use them. It's not like software being passed around for installation on half a dozen computers. Only one person will have ownership of the tutorials at a time.

I have seen some lampwork teachers who teach techniques they learned in another's class. To me, this is a far more grievous error.
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  #28  
Old 2011-07-22, 7:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamper View Post
I understand this, but where is the ethical harm in providing the printed copies with the rest of her lamp working equipment? If the seller is getting out of the business, she will no longer be using them and the buyer will use them. It's not like software being passed around for installation on half a dozen computers. Only one person will have ownership of the tutorials at a time.

I have seen some lampwork teachers who teach techniques they learned in another's class. To me, this is a far more grievous error.
I think people are responding to the original posters situation. She had offered to buy just the tutorials, not the whole setup. What you are describing is more of a tangent topic.
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  #29  
Old 2011-08-03, 6:06pm
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Welll, can this be looked at as a breach of contract?

If I, as the buyer, have agreed that I am purchasing a tutorial for my own use and will not sell it to anyone else, then I am agreeing to not sell this to anyone else. Period. The e-tutorial is basically for the one person who purchased it. The buyer doesn't have the authorization to turn around and sell it to someone else, BECAUSE the buyer agreed NOT to sell it to anyone else, that this tutorial is for personal use only.

I think this would fall in the same category as if someone bought a hard bound printed book, ran off copies, and then sold those copies to other people.

JMHO
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  #30  
Old 2011-08-04, 1:22am
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Overall it comes down to what is practical.

1) If the person did not ask the question who would know that the tutorials were sold.

2) If one of the authors were aware of the issue what would they do?

3) Would the author be willing to utilize a copyright lawyer?

4) How much time, energy and dollars is the author willing to use to make their point?
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