Lampwork Etc.
 
Send a PM to CorriDawn!

LE Live Chat

Enter Live Chat

No users in chat


Donate via PayPal to donate@lampworketc.com

Glacial Art Glass


 

Go Back   Lampwork Etc. > Library > Safety

Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2011-04-28, 6:50pm
BrownGirl's Avatar
BrownGirl BrownGirl is offline
CiM Tamarind-Skinned
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2011
Location: Not nearly close enough to the water.
Posts: 426
Default Setting Up My Torch!

I am very new here. I JUST signed up today and have SO. MANY. QUESTIONS.

I currently live in Missouri but, I am from Michigan. I took my first bead making class in 2003 and fell in love. I immediately bought a HH, Chemtane tank and so much glass. Well, I went back to school and the torch sat and sat and then I moved.

When I took my first class, it was in an old building. Think SMALL barn-ish house with cement floors and windows. The instructor was a working artist and had one huge open table set up with 8 torches. She had 4 giant tanks under the table with splitters on them. We wore glasses and were taught some techniques and it was great fun. If we wanted to work on our own we could rent space from her on an hourly basis and I loved it. I soon bought my own tank and HH and worked in my home. The whole time I worked in my home, my fuel tank was under my desk. I would open all the windows and turn on a fan and would sometimes work for hours. I would close the tank valve and bleed my line and all was well. Right?

So, here I am now, living in the city in a large 4 flat apartment building. I am fortunate enough to have a dedicated studio and room to set everything up that I love to do. The last few nights I have been up rearranging my room and looking at cool glass to buy and then I run across LWE. Then I read up on some safety issues and... I feel like I have escaped death. For those few consistent years I was making beads, I worked with my torch on my desk and my tank at my feet. SHUT THE FRONT DOOR!

At this exact moment, I am full on freaking out and rethinking setting up my torch again. How do I set up my tank outside and feed it through my window? Can it get rained on, safely? Can I just bring it in while I work and set in back outside when I am through? I am thinking no. I have read a lot of what Dale has written and he has scared the socks off me. I want to be safe and not kill my husband or neighbors (Well, may just 2E. OMG! KIDDING!) My room is pretty decent sized. it has a wall and a half of windows in a row. Wood floors, and I have an exhaust fan. How do I get my fuel tank set up safely. Are there any pictures of this set up that I can look at?

Ya know, after I took that class, I just did what the instructor did. I even had a few friends that had their fuel tanks set up the same way. Now I know that my instructor apparently had a death wish and probably didn't like us all that much, either. *laughs*

Okay, that's all for now. I am going to go read some more and scare myself silly.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2011-04-28, 7:14pm
Dale M.'s Avatar
Dale M. Dale M. is offline
Gentleman of Leisure
 
Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
Default

Welcome to LE ...

Hope I didn't scare you to much.....

Ideally your tank should always be outside.

You can get long hoses (up to 20 ft) and bring hose in through window or door during the time you are operating the torch... When you are not using torch, you can disconnect HH and coil up hose and just place it outside on top of tank.

Tanks sit outside in thousands of places through all kinds of weather so there is not much danger to the tank. IF you really want to protect it you can find a large plastic container (garbage can) and cover it to protect it from the weather.

Other issue is to develop some form of positive ventilation so you do not "poison" yourself and other family members... ummm... Maybe "poison" is to strong a word, but yes there is dangers of inadequate ventilation...

You may want to read up on NOX (nitrogen oxides) and CO (carbon monoxide)...

Happy torching in new studio...

Dale
__________________
You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Vendor-Artist-Studio-Teacher Registry

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2011-04-28, 8:11pm
jonibird's Avatar
jonibird jonibird is offline
It's about having fun!
 
Join Date: Sep 30, 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 552
Default

If you can't figure out the big tank deal, you could use the one pound canisters of propane, they last about 6 hours.
__________________
The Boneyard Punch Tutorial: Learn how to make a simple tool that will easily put a hole in hot glass! It really works! See my Etsy!
My Etsy:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Thank you! Joni
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2011-04-28, 8:56pm
Conrad Hoffman's Avatar
Conrad Hoffman Conrad Hoffman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 05, 2011
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 144
Default

IMO, outdoor regulators with gauges should have a plastic bucket or some kind of rain protection over them. Truth be told, I'm too lazy to mess with my big grill tank and long hoses much of the time. I find a 1 lb tank and small regulator is handy and lasts long enough for what I do. They only cost about $5 for two of 'em, so it's not a huge expense. Oxygen is another story, though it's really quite reasonable in this area compared to stories I've heard about other places.
__________________
Conrad

Knight Bullet Burner
Tanks
mostly boro technical projects

"I'm sure I'm on a planet but I don't know if it's still earth."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2011-04-29, 3:23pm
BrownGirl's Avatar
BrownGirl BrownGirl is offline
CiM Tamarind-Skinned
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2011
Location: Not nearly close enough to the water.
Posts: 426
Default

The more I think about setting up my torch, the more I am deciding against it. I LOVE melting glass but, I just running into issues that I never knew existed. Every time I think, "Okay, I have this" I immediately run into a post that says, "Uh, you SHOULD NOT do that."

Honestly, I am not complaining. I want to be safe. I have lots of pets, a husband I love dearly and neighbors to consider. Initially, the fuel tank was my concern. I think I can work that out with placing it outside the window and getting a longer hose. Now, I am worried about ventilation. The studio where I took lessons had window fans in the windows turned backwards to work as exhaust fans. I had intended to do that but the more I read, the more I realize that is simply not sufficient.

I only have a HotHead torch but, I have So. MUCH. Glass. a kiln, tons of tools so, I have a lot invested to just say, "Forget it, I can't get things worked out." Also, I REALLY want to get into this again. I don't foresee torching everyday. I make beaded jewelry and do some metal smithing and doing some glasswork would be wonderful for me.

Really, I guess what I am looking for is some help or to be directed to the right place to do this on a budget. I am willing to take my time to get stuff together so I can have a safe and well thought out workspace but, right now, I am small time and need some guidance on how to stay safe on a budget.

Why did none of this bother me 7 years ago? Why is it all freaking me out now?

Thanks for any and all input.

--Monica
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2011-04-29, 9:14pm
Conrad Hoffman's Avatar
Conrad Hoffman Conrad Hoffman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 05, 2011
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 144
Default

I had exactly the same problem when I discovered this forum. Since it's a public forum one doesn't want to suggest anything that might get someone hurt or worse. Peoples skill level and overall technical knowledge is unknown. Thus only the most conservative advice and practices can be given. IMO, the problem is that one standard seems to be applied, regardless of whether one is doing periodic small projects with a HH, or doing professional big glass 8 hours a day on a Kubuki. They're not the same situation and the safety requirements will not be the same. Ultimately you're responsible for your (and others) safety. There's always some risk; you can't reduce it to zero other than by being dead, sort of a catch 22. Personally, I'm not willing to go that far for the sake of zero risk. Read everything you can and use common sense. When in doubt, ask questions!
__________________
Conrad

Knight Bullet Burner
Tanks
mostly boro technical projects

"I'm sure I'm on a planet but I don't know if it's still earth."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2011-04-30, 5:36am
TomK's Avatar
TomK TomK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 24, 2010
Posts: 39
Default

Welcome

One thing you will find here is people who care. Sometimes that makes for conflict when someone is very blunt, but remember they are being blunt because they care. Safety is a major concern, if there is a right/safest way and a get by until you can afford the right/safest. Then make the get by, as safe as you can, like taking you rig outside in the open for tank or ventilation issues. You would not knowingly remove asbestos why would you chance health problems without following proper, code approved installations?

Since you mentioned a wood floor, you will want something non-flammable under/around your torch area on the floor. Like ceramic tile, a sheet of metal, etc. Hot glass hitting a wood floor can cause a fire. It does not happen often, but why risk burning down your house just to save $20-$30 on a piece of sheet metal.

As far as ventilation, there are a number of good threads on that, but basics: Fan with enough power to remove the fumes and the source for make up air 10 or more feet from the fan exhaust.

Bottom line, if you see two conflicting opinions about a safety subject, then do some research on your own. Always follow approved building codes. If you don't, you may find your insurance will not cover any damage, and no amount of insurance can cover damaging your health.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2011-05-05, 11:31am
Dreamsincolor Dreamsincolor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 04, 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 417
Default

It would be great if you had natural gas available. We moved here to Missouri and my DH had the city bump up the pressure and I could run half a dozen torches or have a glory hole if I wanted. A couple of oxy/cons means no tanks inside of any kind, constant pressure and clean fuel. Hope you are able to find a solution you can be comfortable with at home.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2011-05-06, 9:35am
dweezil's Avatar
dweezil dweezil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 19, 2010
Location: Lake Mary, Fl
Posts: 207
Default Pictures

Hey there. Can you maybe show a couple of pictures of the room you have set up? There are many of us out here that have solved all kinds of problems and maybe we can take a look and offer some good ideas. Sure would hate for you to give up your love.

As for protecting your guages, take a baggie and zip tie it or duct tape it around your guages. Changing it out when you change the tank is pretty cheap.

Dweezil
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2011-05-10, 2:30pm
BrownGirl's Avatar
BrownGirl BrownGirl is offline
CiM Tamarind-Skinned
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2011
Location: Not nearly close enough to the water.
Posts: 426
Default

First off: Dweezil> I will post pics pretty soon. I need to do some more moving around in there to make things work a little better. Also, I want to do things right and be as safe as humanly possible but, I am a little nervous to show my space. I don't know if I can take too much getting yelled at right at the moment.

You will all be happy to know I have NOT been torching at all. I won't until I get my new hose in here. I do still have my tank indoors. I KNOW, I KNOW! I need to find a garbage can to put it in. I will be getting one very soon.

I called a welding supply company today and they said they could make up a new hose for me. They also said that they have couplers to join my two 5ft hoses. I am going there on Saturday so I can either get the hose made up or buy a coupler. The window that I have my torch next to has a 6-7ft drop. I am hoping to get a 15ft hose so I can have the canister behind the fence (just 3 feet over) and have some slack to maneuver things around.

The floors in my room are wood so, I got a large piece of industrial linoleum from someone on craigslist. It was $5 and I am hoping this will work alright to keep from damaging/burning my floor. I cannot do anything permanent to this space because I am renting.

As for ventilation, I have a LOT of windows in this room. 5, to be exact and they are set up in an L-shape. They are all fully functioning with screens. Can someone maybe help me get some good ideas for good and CHEAP ventilation?

Oh yeah, I also got a piece of sheet metal for the top of my work table. I got a fire extinguisher last weekend and I am setting up a storage system for my glass. It's a small space but very nice. about 7'x12'.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2011-05-10, 2:50pm
ArtcoInc's Avatar
ArtcoInc ArtcoInc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 04, 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownGirl View Post
I called a welding supply company today and they said they could make up a new hose for me. They also said that they have couplers to join my two 5ft hoses. I am going there on Saturday so I can either get the hose made up or buy a coupler. The window that I have my torch next to has a 6-7ft drop. I am hoping to get a 15ft hose so I can have the canister behind the fence (just 3 feet over) and have some slack to maneuver things around.
Since you have a Hot Head, you don't have to worry about a regulator out in the weather, since a Hot Head doesn't need one. Oh, and FWIW, I carry hoses up to 20' long that are made for Hot Heads:

http://www.artcoinc.com/hot_head.php
(at the bottom of the page)

Malcolm
__________________
ARTCO
Artist's Reliable Tool Company
Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Phone:+1.408.288.7978
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2011-05-10, 3:10pm
BrownGirl's Avatar
BrownGirl BrownGirl is offline
CiM Tamarind-Skinned
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2011
Location: Not nearly close enough to the water.
Posts: 426
Default

Yeah, I don't need a regulator at all, I am glad for that. I am thinking that I will head down to the welding supply company tomorrow and get that hose. Why wait? A 15' hose is under $20 for use with my brazing fuel and they were super nice on the phone.

I am going to make a little slat to fit into window with a hole in it to feed the hose through so I don't have to have my window open and bugs flying in. WHen I unhook my hose every night, do I drain it into a container? Do I store it outside as well with my fuel tank? What do you think?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2011-05-10, 4:46pm
ArtcoInc's Avatar
ArtcoInc ArtcoInc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 04, 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownGirl View Post
Yeah, I don't need a regulator at all, I am glad for that. I am thinking that I will head down to the welding supply company tomorrow and get that hose. Why wait? A 15' hose is under $20 for use with my brazing fuel and they were super nice on the phone.
Make sure that the hose will have the proper fittings ... one to fit directly into your propane tank (aka a POL fitting) and one to fit your Hot Head torch (aka a Female Throwaway Cylinder thread).

Quote:
I am going to make a little slat to fit into window with a hole in it to feed the hose through so I don't have to have my window open and bugs flying in. When I unhook my hose every night, do I drain it into a container? Do I store it outside as well with my fuel tank? What do you think?
Propane has chemicals added to it ... including an odorant. Some people find that this leaves an oily residue in their hose. They like to hang their hose and let it drain into a disposable container.

If you store your hose outside, make sure it stays clean and that no animals or insects can get into it.

Malcolm
__________________
ARTCO
Artist's Reliable Tool Company
Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Phone:+1.408.288.7978
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2011-05-10, 5:24pm
BrownGirl's Avatar
BrownGirl BrownGirl is offline
CiM Tamarind-Skinned
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2011
Location: Not nearly close enough to the water.
Posts: 426
Default

I don't use propane, I use Chem-Tane. The gentleman on the phone seemed to know what I was talking about. I will bring my hose along so he can take a look at it just in case. But they are a welding supplier so, if he doesn't know what I am talking about, St. Louis is in trouble. *laughs* I'll bring my HotHead, too!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2011-05-11, 4:27am
TomK's Avatar
TomK TomK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 24, 2010
Posts: 39
Default

Please do not take anything that someone posts as yelling at you. Well, that is unless they type in all caps, then that is yelling

Inside or outside is ok for hanging the hoses to drain, just make sure there is no connector on the end that stops the flow like a quick disconnect.

For ventilation you need to have a fan that is at or above your torch level. You can use a box fan in a window opening as long as the fan can draw enough air. To get the correct flow you should make a hood with sides. Keep it on the small side and made from non flammable material. Concrete backer board, used to set tiles is a cheap option. Does not look great, but for starting out, what the heck. You can use any right angle metal to bolt it together. Such as 2 inch right angle brackets, or the wider right angles used in framing. You will need make-up air, that has to be 10 feet from the exhaust. Since you said the windows are in an L shape, that should not be much of a problem if you set up the torch area at one end of the L and the make-up air at the other end. I see that you posted that you used to open all the windows before moving. You really want to create a draft, so opening all of them is not what you want. You want a draft that comes from behind you to the torch and out. This way the harmful fumes are pulled away from you to the fan. If the draft is from the side, then the fumes can build up in the room.

As far as being safe, there is a post from December 2010 showing pics of a studio that burned down. No one wants to see someone have to go through that. There is only one difference between a major glass studio and a once a month play day setup when it comes to safety and that is size. They both need to be as fire proof as possible, follow the same laws regarding the use and storage of gas and O2, Have the same air flow requirements for ventilation in order to be safe.

I'm not sure about the fire rating of linoleum, if you have any question, you could cover it was 1/4 inch of sand to keep any hot glass from touching it. That could get complicated if you have cats

The fact that you posted questions says that you understand what you were shown was not safe and that you want to be safe, so keep it up
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 9:59am.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Your IP: 100.26.35.111