HELP! Mini CC vs. Minor? Input?

kramdas · #1 2007-05-02, 6:02pm

I'm ready to upgrade from a HH but thoroughly confused! If you're using either a Mini CC or a Minor, please tell me what it is that you like/dislike about it! (or if you swear by something else, I'm open to suggestions) I'm thinking of using an oxy con setup...Any input would be helpful! Thanks!!

Cosmo · #2 2007-05-02, 8:38pm

I have used both quite extensively.

The Mini CC is hotter. The Minor uses less oxygen. However "hotter" and "less oxygen" are relative terms. They are both pretty close. But, running wide open the Mini CC will be hotter. The only complaint I have about the Mini CC is that when using it on concentrators (especially a single concentrator) it goes into a reducing flame pretty easily. Espeically when you try to get a big flame. I have taught many classes on both Minors and Mini CC's, and honestly either will work fine once you get used to the torch. And, since both will be much hotter than your current torch, heat may not be an issue for you anyways.

I know you didn't mention it, but I highly recommend you take a look at the Knight torches. The 7 port model is a little more expensive ($10) than the Mini CC, but well worth it I think. We teach on Minors and are getting ready to replace them with Knights.

beadsoncypress · #3 2007-05-03, 3:25am

I would think about what you want to do eventually (like Boro or size). Although I love my mini- I have worked on the larger wildcat (and there is another in the works with inner and outer flame), I sometimes wish I had the power/heat of the wildcat when I make larger pieces. I know some folks who have 17 (yes, seventeen) torches in their workshop! I can't afford to go that way, so I will use my mini with my O2 generator/concentrator and be happy melting glass into really neat little orbs.....

kramdas · #4 2007-05-03, 8:29am

Cosmo-you emailed me a wealth of information earlier this week. How does the knight torch differ from the minor and mini cc? Do they all have 7 ports? I'd really like to stick to having to use one concentrator (for now), and don't want reducing to be an issue-have enough of that with the HH! But, I don't want to invest and regret not getting a hotter torch in a few months...

Cosmo · #5 2007-05-03, 8:51am

They all have 7 ports. I think. The Mini CC may have 6. I can't remember for sure. The main advantage of the Knight is that it's hotter than the other two. It doesn't use as much oxygen as the Mini CC. Uses about the same as a Minor.

On a single concentrator, the Knight and Minor would be my two suggestions, which the Knight being preferred because of the hotter flame. It also has a flame shape that I think works better too. You can get a wider range of flame widths than you can with a Minor. I wouldn't recommend a Mini CC on a single concentrator.

kramdas · #6 2007-05-03, 9:57am

Thanks Cosmo-one more question if you can stand it! The Minor tilts. I saw a brass knob at the base of the Knight torch-please tell me it tilts also?!

beadlvr · #7 2007-05-03, 10:06am

I went from a HH to a mini cc, ran it on one concentrator for about a year, I now have two. I love it and am satisified for what I do, mainly soft glass although I did to a little boro on it to test it with the second concentrator. The mini tilts also.

kramdas · #8 2007-05-03, 10:40am

Sherry-did you have trouble getting used to the new torch? I'm afraid everything I know now will have to go right out the window!

Hayley · #9 2007-05-03, 11:11am

I upgraded from a HotHead to my Bobcat (7 ports) end of last year . . . I did extensive research on entry level torches before settling on the Bobcat. One of the main reasons is that the Mini CC gets hot . . . even the knobs get hot and the Bobcat remains cool. They have very similar characteristics otherwise. I read that they are a step above the Minor for heat and smaller flame for detail work.

I am on one oxycon with 8.5psi and the Bobcat can even do small boro (just hot enough, although sometimes I wish I had more heat . . . guess a second oxycon is in my future!).

Hope that helps.

Cosmo · #10 2007-05-03, 11:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramdas

Thanks Cosmo-one more question if you can stand it! The Minor tilts. I saw a brass knob at the base of the Knight torch-please tell me it tilts also?!

Yes. It tilts much easier. The Minor you need to get out a wrench and loosen the nut, then tilt it, then tighten the nut back. On the Knight you just undo the knob by hand, tilt it, then tighten it back.

Of course, I never really change the angle of my torch once I get it set up the way I like it. But, that's just me...

Cosmo · #11 2007-05-03, 11:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayley

I upgraded from a HotHead to my Bobcat (7 ports) end of last year . . . I did extensive research on entry level torches before settling on the Bobcat. One of the main reasons is that the Mini CC gets hot . . . even the knobs get hot and the Bobcat remains cool. They have very similar characteristics otherwise. I read that they are a step above the Minor for heat and smaller flame for detail work.

I am on one oxycon with 8.5psi and the Bobcat can even do small boro (just hot enough, although sometimes I wish I had more heat . . . guess a second oxycon is in my future!).

Hope that helps.

I have heard many people say that the Mini CC gets hot. I have never experienced that. I have taught several classes on them and haven't had that problem.

Sue H-K · #12 2007-05-03, 11:43am

I have a mini and it runs much better on 2 oxycons. I ran it with one for about 6 months and then added a second and it is great! It does get a little warmish, but it is a little workhorse.

skookum · #13 2007-05-03, 11:55am

I went from a HH to a mini cc and I LOVE the mini cc. The knobs can get roasty if a small flame is used instead of a bushy flame.
I run my mini cc with natural gas on a single concentrator and it works just fine. I make BIG beads with my setup so sorry Cosmo, I disagree with your statement about not recommending the mini cc with a single oxy-con.
I suggest to try the torches out that you have an interest in. Torches can be personal.
There is a learning curve with any torch and how steep you make it is up to you. I didn't have a steep curve at all. What you have learned will not go out the window, you may have to fine-tune, but you won't be throwing out.

kramdas · #14 2007-05-03, 2:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by skookum

I suggest to try the torches out that you have an interest in. Torches can be personal.
There is a learning curve with any torch and how steep you make it is up to you. I didn't have a steep curve at all. What you have learned will not go out the window, you may have to fine-tune, but you won't be throwing out.

Unfortunately, I can't get any hands on time around here-which is what makes this so tough! But, I DO KNOW which one I think is the prettiest

Seriously though, I'm studying knob placement, where my marver might clamp on, are the hoses going to poke me when I sit close-all of these decisions!!! I may just go for it and stop researching it to death-takes all the fun out of it!! Besides, I can always sell it and try again if I'm not happy..(Glad to hear I'll still be able to make beads-whew!)

Carols Glass · #15 2007-05-03, 2:21pm

I second what skookum said. I went from a HH to a mini cc and one concentrator. I also love it. The only thing I think I will invest in a second concentrator for is boro (which is calling my name).
There was about a one day learning curve going from the HH to a mini cc.
I don't know what is meant by a reducing flame on a mini cc? I don't seem to have a problem with mine reducing. What are the signs of that?
Anyways, the knobs do get warm after many hours but never too hot to handle.
After all I've read here and on other websites, I think my next torch would be a Knight.
Good luck!
Carol

Wonker · #16 2007-05-03, 2:38pm

See, there's the whole problem. We all started off on a hothead. Then we decided we wanted a little more control over the flame and a little more heat so we buy torch number two. It's usually the bottom of the line the next step up. We get that and go OMG!!!! I didn't know what flame control was. MORE!!! The next thing ya know....you have a hothead, a minor burner, a pirhana, a red max and a mirage. Sheeeesh. Okay that might only be specific to me, but I bet there are other similar tales. I wish I had thought at least one torch farther down the road than I had along the way, I would have saved tons of money.

I'll throw my 2 cents worth in here. You buy a bottom of the line GTT torch as your next step up and the chances are you can get almost all of your money back when you trade up. You'll be able to get some of it back with the others. (Don't get me wrong, you'll be happy with any of the ones mentioned here. I've heard nothing but good things about all of them). There is an economic element to consider as well though. The bottom of the line GTT torch is the centerfire for all of the torches they make, and I use it 75% of the time. Boro, softglass, doesn't matter.

No matter what you choose, you're going to love the difference of that step up. Good luck

kramdas · #17 2007-05-03, 3:10pm

So Wonker, we're talking Bobcat? (Been researching the Lynx too, there is that little price difference...and I think it runs best on 2 oxycons, not one) It IS pretty! I like the way it's built, and the way the hoses attach downward...I REALLY want some good results finally with all the fun frits and silver glass...and I want good results from ONE oxycon...too much to ask? LOL

And Carol, more about the Knight please! Chad (Cosmo) has been bending over backwards to get me all sorts of information, and he sounds very fond of the Knight Little Dragon. Have you used one?

Ever After · #18 2007-05-03, 3:33pm

I have a cc and a minor, and run both on one oxy con, I dont know where i learned it but if you turn your oxy valve full steam ahead the torch doesnt get so hot, and less reduction of course..
I Like the pinpoint on the minor, and i found after leaving the hothead my beads suddenly became tiny, lol
the cc is alot bushier, and has alot more radient heat, has a great sweet spot for stringer work, !! and encasing is a piece of cake!
im not sure which I Like best, but im begining to really love the cc..

Wonker · #19 2007-05-03, 3:33pm

Actually I was talking about the Lynx. It is the centerfire of all of the GTTs. I ran the centerfire of my Mirage on one of the large oxycons for a while (until my wife also got the bug, now she has my redmax and uses the oxycon and I'm on tanked). I'm not selling the Knight short, they are supposed to be excellent. I just have seen that the GTT torches resell for nearly (if not exactly) what a new one sells for. If you're going to upgrade in a year, or two, why not put it into a torch that will let you do that with the least economic impact.

I will say that I think that Cosmo will stand behind his torch and he has them available. That goes a long way.

G.L.McBead · #20 2007-05-03, 4:07pm

I have a Knight and it's a great torch.I had a Mini cc for about 1 year and like it too.The Mini got too hot with 1 concentrator so I add a second and it was a very good torch.
G.

kramdas · #21 2007-05-03, 6:07pm

Wonker, the Lynx is a triple surface mix torch...WHAT'S THAT NOW?! I'm only seeing 2 hoses....I'm so wet behind the ears when it comes to torches! Enough to scare me back to my trusty HH! <confusion sets in, overwhelmed lampworker sits down and shakes head> LOL I like the idea of good resale value- then I won't stress my original choice so much!

Thank you all for the responses!!!!

beadlvr · #22 2007-05-03, 7:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramdas

Sherry-did you have trouble getting used to the new torch? I'm afraid everything I know now will have to go right out the window!

I was a little nervous at first but now I love it. It wasn't as hard getting used to it as I thought it would be, getting used to the heat. The biggest thing for me was I had to get used to working faster due to more heat but that didn't take long at all.

Cosmo · #23 2007-05-04, 5:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by skookum

I went from a HH to a mini cc and I LOVE the mini cc. The knobs can get roasty if a small flame is used instead of a bushy flame.
I run my mini cc with natural gas on a single concentrator and it works just fine. I make BIG beads with my setup so sorry Cosmo, I disagree with your statement about not recommending the mini cc with a single oxy-con.
I suggest to try the torches out that you have an interest in. Torches can be personal.
There is a learning curve with any torch and how steep you make it is up to you. I didn't have a steep curve at all. What you have learned will not go out the window, you may have to fine-tune, but you won't be throwing out.

You can certainly make big things on a Mini CC with a single concentrator. But it's much easier and quicker with a different torch, or with two concentrators on a Mini CC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonker

See, there's the whole problem. We all started off on a hothead. Then we decided we wanted a little more control over the flame and a little more heat so we buy torch number two. It's usually the bottom of the line the next step up. We get that and go OMG!!!! I didn't know what flame control was. MORE!!! The next thing ya know....you have a hothead, a minor burner, a pirhana, a red max and a mirage. Sheeeesh. Okay that might only be specific to me, but I bet there are other similar tales. I wish I had thought at least one torch farther down the road than I had along the way, I would have saved tons of money.

I'll throw my 2 cents worth in here. You buy a bottom of the line GTT torch as your next step up and the chances are you can get almost all of your money back when you trade up. You'll be able to get some of it back with the others. (Don't get me wrong, you'll be happy with any of the ones mentioned here. I've heard nothing but good things about all of them). There is an economic element to consider as well though. The bottom of the line GTT torch is the centerfire for all of the torches they make, and I use it 75% of the time. Boro, softglass, doesn't matter.

No matter what you choose, you're going to love the difference of that step up. Good luck

Actually, the bottom of the line GTT is the Bobcat, which has only one oxygen knob (like most torches). The Lynx is the next step up, which is a triple-mix torch. It is the one used as the center fire of the other torches.

Knight does the same thing with their Bullet Burner. The center fire of the Bullet Burner is the 7 port Little Dragon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramdas

Wonker, the Lynx is a triple surface mix torch...WHAT'S THAT NOW?! I'm only seeing 2 hoses....I'm so wet behind the ears when it comes to torches! Enough to scare me back to my trusty HH! <confusion sets in, overwhelmed lampworker sits down and shakes head> LOL I like the idea of good resale value- then I won't stress my original choice so much!

Thank you all for the responses!!!!

A triple mix torch is one that has two oxygen knobs and a propane knob. There is a scientific reason behind it, but the main principal is that the more oxygen you can get through a torch, the hotter it will be. The way the flame mixes it combusts better and gets hotter. I don't claim to know the details about why it works, so I won't go into that. I will say, however, you have to pay to play. A Lynx, even used, usually goes for over $400.

bclogan · #24 2007-05-04, 7:37am

Cosmo - will the Knight 7 or 21 work on Natural Gas with one 5 lpm oxycon?

Cosmo · #25 2007-05-04, 7:41am

The 7 will. The 21 won't. The 21 is basically a Bullet Burner, but it is all one flame, not a separate inner and outer flame.

bclogan · #26 2007-05-04, 8:10am

And the main difference between the Knight 7 and the Minor is that the Knight is hotter, right?

Hmmmm... I run a Minor at home with NG and one oxycon and sometimes wish for just a little bit more oomph... And occasionally even a wider flame. But I don't want to go to a Mini CC - the couple times I tried one on just one oxycon the knobs got hot, and that really bothered me. I just didn't like that...

Cosmo · #27 2007-05-04, 8:25am

More heat and more variations in flame width.

However, NG burns cooler than propane, so it's hard to say how much more heat you would see on a different torch. I haven't tested these torches on NG, so I can't say for sure. I would like to, but our gas connections don't put out enough pressure to run them.

I do know the Knights will run on NG. I just don't have personal experience with them, so I can't tell you for sure. I do know they are hotter than Minors on propane, so I'm assuming the same will be true on NG.

bclogan · #28 2007-05-04, 9:24am

Well, even if all I got was the variation in flame, it might be worth it to switch over. Hmmmmm.... Do you take trade-ins...!!!???!!!

Cosmo · #29 2007-05-04, 9:31am

No, but I may be able to find a buyer for that Mini CC. I have a customer looking for one. I'll talk to her this weekend and let you know...

nagibeads · #30 2007-05-04, 9:39am

hmmm....if it is a choice between mini CC and Minor, I say go with mini CC.....

....but if you say which torch is my recommendation, I have to say GTT--any of them.
I started on a Bobcat and it is wonderful for soft glass and some smaller boro(I say small, but I was able to make 1.25" boro marbles and small sculptures with it). Like Hayley said, it stays cool to the touch which is awesome--I sometimes use it to balance on for tiny details. If you are using a HH right now, it will take a small bit of time to get used to the heat, but after that it is a dream!!!! For me, it was love at first melt!!!!

Whatever you choose, you really can't go wrong...they are all so nice!