Implosion like heart?

[lori 2]

THANK YOU ALL FOR THE CANDOR!!!!!!!!
I have been reading this thread with amusement. If I knew anyone here personally, I would feel guilty for chuckling at the snipping.
I originally was looking for info on the 'implosion' technique. There is a tut by 'Moth' I think. Then the term implosion started referring to Sherry or Anouk and the copper mesh. Those are very Cool!
I can't wait to mess around with copper mesh.

Here's a story;
Once upon a time a gal in Poulsbo learned to make beads. After a year or so, she was accepted into a Coop gallery in her little town.
She saw some cute little ladybugs made by Larry Brickman in the local beadstore. She tried making ladybugs like his and had some success. It was fun!
Having heard a little on the topic of copying in classes, she was confused (just like Lori), about ethics on the subject.
IMPORTANT NOTE at this point in her process, she thought of her craft as that; A CRAFT TO MASTER. She did not consider herself an artist.
Anyhow, she called Mr. B and asked him how he felt about her selling ladybugs at the gallery in town.
Larry was very kind and gracious and told her that lots and lots of people made ladybugs of all kinds, and his were not that different than any others. No problem, thank you for calling..., yada yada yada.
Then an hour or so later he called her back. Again he thanked her and explained that the little $8 ladybugs were his 'bread-and-butter'. (an expression this gal had never heard) He said he would prefer she not sell them.
She didn't.
Now that gal has been making beads for 10 years, and is an artist.
She learns techniques, buys way too many books and tools, and loves the whole creative process.
She has a great love of the art of lampworking.
She also brags to everyone she can about the generosity of glassworkers. How they all love to share with each other, thereby raising us all to greater levels of skill to allow us to do more and more with glass.
I love it!
O.K. You're right, you guessed it, that gal was me.
I do use everything I learn from everyone I can to create my little works of art. I do not feel a bit guilty for it. When I make a bead, it is MINE ALL MINE!
Oh well, I have gone on long enough..., naw..., another story about the same gal;
O.K. I AM BAD. MY CONFESSION:
I live only an hour or so from Andrea Guarino. I have taken a few classes from her. She taught her famous galaxy beads. I am not too good at following recipes and am not anywhere near as talented as she. Not long ago I needed more inventory in the gallery where I sell. So I brought in a couple of my class beads.
They are purdy beads. No experienced beader or lampworker would ever mistake my work for Andrea's.
Hopefully someone will come into the shop, see my necklace and want to wear it. I aim to please.
O.K. Andrea, if you are out there..., no offense

I have really learned a lot by hearing all the input from all of you.
FINAL WORDS;
We all have to decide for ourselves what is respectful, ethical, and relevant to our own values.
I appreciate that all of you have spoken out so candidly. (The personal stuff is just that, personal, so it doesn't bother me)
If you agree with me fine, if not..., be gentle, I have tender feelings (my dh says I'm a weinie)
Whew

[ShellyD]

I just wanted to add that Carmen Isaacs, Anat Golen, Elise Rowe, Lynne Smith, Astrid Riedel are artists in this country who have been doing this along time here. They for us newbies are the Godmothers (in the nice Cinderella story sort of way, not the Italian mob boss sort of way) of the art here. Yes, I think about three years ago I could definitely have counted the amount of Lampwork artists in this country on my 10 chubby little fingers.

Hugs to you all.

[ShellyD]

Originally Posted by lori 2

THANK YOU ALL FOR THE CANDOR!!!!!!!!
I have been reading this thread with amusement. If I knew anyone here personally, I would feel guilty for chuckling at the snipping.
I originally was looking for info on the 'implosion' technique. There is a tut by 'Moth' I think. Then the term implosion started referring to Sherry or Anouk and the copper mesh. Those are very Cool!
I can't wait to mess around with copper mesh.

Here's a story;
Once upon a time a gal in Poulsbo learned to make beads. After a year or so, she was accepted into a Coop gallery in her little town.
She saw some cute little ladybugs made by Larry Brickman in the local beadstore. She tried making ladybugs like his and had some success. It was fun!
Having heard a little on the topic of copying in classes, she was confused (just like Lori), about ethics on the subject.
IMPORTANT NOTE at this point in her process, she thought of her craft as that; A CRAFT TO MASTER. She did not consider herself an artist.
Anyhow, she called Mr. B and asked him how he felt about her selling ladybugs at the gallery in town.
Larry was very kind and gracious and told her that lots and lots of people made ladybugs of all kinds, and his were not that different than any others. No problem, thank you for calling..., yada yada yada.
Then an hour or so later he called her back. Again he thanked her and explained that the little $8 ladybugs were his 'bread-and-butter'. (an expression this gal had never heard) He said he would prefer she not sell them.
She didn't.
Now that gal has been making beads for 10 years, and is an artist.
She learns techniques, buys way too many books and tools, and loves the whole creative process.
She has a great love of the art of lampworking.
She also brags to everyone she can about the generosity of glassworkers. How they all love to share with each other, thereby raising us all to greater levels of skill to allow us to do more and more with glass.
I love it!
O.K. You're right, you guessed it, that gal was me.
I do use everything I learn from everyone I can to create my little works of art. I do not feel a bit guilty for it. When I make a bead, it is MINE ALL MINE!
Oh well, I have gone on long enough..., naw..., another story about the same gal;
O.K. I AM BAD. MY CONFESSION:
I live only an hour or so from Andrea Guarino. I have taken a few classes from her. She taught her famous galaxy beads. I am not too good at following recipes and am not anywhere near as talented as she. Not long ago I needed more inventory in the gallery where I sell. So I brought in a couple of my class beads.
They are purdy beads. No experienced beader or lampworker would ever mistake my work for Andrea's.
Hopefully someone will come into the shop, see my necklace and want to wear it. I aim to please.
O.K. Andrea, if you are out there..., no offense

I have really learned a lot by hearing all the input from all of you.
FINAL WORDS;
We all have to decide for ourselves what is respectful, ethical, and relevant to our own values.
I appreciate that all of you have spoken out so candidly. (The personal stuff is just that, personal, so it doesn't bother me)
If you agree with me fine, if not..., be gentle, I have tender feelings (my dh says I'm a weinie)
Whew

When I grow up, I want to be you. Thank you for a beautiful and insightful post.

[lori 2]

P.S.Mr. Smiley, are you going to give us a challlenge bead? It sounds like fun.
Lori2

[ChristinaColligan]

I would also like to know when the tutorial would be ready - it would be fun to learn from the originator and some history on it would be interesting too. Even if I have to pay for it.
I love adding things to my library of art - By collecting beads and glass art, and trying new techniques does allow me to further my self expression, experimentation is how one stumbles upon new ideas and furthers the world of lampworking/beadmaking.
However, I don't believe I could comfortably tell someone they couldn't try something I invented/stumbled upon...you know if you want to try to imitate what you see it's part of life, it's how we were all taught - to walk, talk, run, tie your shoes, if you trip you learn to pick your feet up, if you learn to jump you must learn to judge distance....but you can't stop free will...if you aren't sharing you are showing and there is already a thread for that. So for those of us who post questions for advice or want to learn if you don't want to share just say so and let others try to figure things out for themselves. If you sit back and watch you can laugh at their attempts or be proud that someone would try to imitate your creation.....if your creation is really known by YOU then people who collect beads will seek YOU out and buy from you and not an imitator. I do however believe that if you are imitating another artists beads (that you have learned from and it is a particular style) and selling them you should get permission and give them credit if you have been recognized as also making that type art form. That's my story.

[suzanne]

have really learned a lot by hearing all the input from all of you.
FINAL WORDS;
We all have to decide for ourselves what is respectful, ethical, and relevant to our own values.
I appreciate that all of you have spoken out so candidly. (The personal stuff is just that, personal, so it doesn't bother me)
If you agree with me fine, if not..., be gentle, I have tender feelings (my dh says I'm a weinie)
Whew

I couldn't agree with you more, everyone has to decide for themselves.

[Mr. Smiley]

Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs

Well I am not a newbie and I have been put off this forum big time. I get very distressed whenever somebody appoints themselves the "bead police" and start berating people on what is ethical and what is not and acts so self righteous. They always seem to be the same few people and they have their followers agreeing and paying homage to them, maybe this is the club Shelly is referring to. All I want to know is who died and put you in charge and where do you find the time for all this lecturing?? This was an innocent fun thread that was turned into something ugly by some very self righteous people.

This online community does not elect officials. We are kind of a self governing bunch. If you don't like the views expressed by me or anybody else on these topics, fine. You can govern yourself according to your own beliefs. Some of us have different standards... if that makes me self-righteous in your eyes, so be it. I won't keep my mouth shut, because you are having fun doing something I see as disrespectful to a peer. Having fun is not something anybody has a problem with and maybe we can avoid this in the future by discussing it like adults... there are countless ways to have fun that don't involve figuring out somebodies tech in public... Can you think of any?

[Mr. Smiley]

Originally Posted by ChristinaColligan

I would also like to know when the tutorial would be ready - it would be fun to learn from the originator and some history on it would be interesting too. Even if I have to pay for it.
I love adding things to my library of art - By collecting beads and glass art, and trying new techniques does allow me to further my self expression, experimentation is how one stumbles upon new ideas and furthers the world of lampworking/beadmaking.
However, I don't believe I could comfortably tell someone they couldn't try something I invented/stumbled upon...you know if you want to try to imitate what you see it's part of life, it's how we were all taught - to walk, talk, run, tie your shoes, if you trip you learn to pick your feet up, if you learn to jump you must learn to judge distance....but you can't stop free will...if you aren't sharing you are showing and there is already a thread for that. So for those of us who post questions for advice or want to learn if you don't want to share just say so and let others try to figure things out for themselves. If you sit back and watch you can laugh at their attempts or be proud that someone would try to imitate your creation.....if your creation is really known by YOU then people who collect beads will seek YOU out and buy from you and not an imitator. I do however believe that if you are imitating another artists beads (that you have learned from and it is a particular style) and selling them you should get permission and give them credit if you have been recognized as also making that type art form. That's my story.

Nobody said people couldn't try it... nobody! It's the working it out in public view, when the tutorial is being written by the artist already that was pointed out as disrespectful.

[Carmen Isaacs]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley

This online community does not elect officials. We are kind of a self governing bunch. If you don't like the views expressed by me or anybody else on these topics, fine. You can govern yourself according to your own beliefs. Some of us have different standards... if that makes me self-righteous in your eyes, so be it. I won't keep my mouth shut, because you are having fun doing something I see as disrespectful to a peer. Having fun is not something anybody has a problem with and maybe we can avoid this in the future by discussing it like adults... there are countless ways to have fun that don't involve figuring out somebodies tech in public... Can you think of any?

This whole thing is so small minded it is pathetic. I in fact emailed Sherry right in the beginning about getting into her classes in Brussels and I have not made a bead with this technique so don't worry yourself about my ethics.

I still don't believe for one minute that anybody who participated in this thread meant any harm to Sherry and I think everybody behaved in an adult way until you got involved with the mud slinging. We are all adults here and it is insulting when the "bead police" start treating us like naughty children.

[Mr. Smiley]

Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs

This whole thing is so small minded it is pathetic. I in fact emailed Sherry right in the beginning about getting into her classes in Brussels and I have not made a bead with this technique so don't worry yourself about my ethics.

I still don't believe for one minute that anybody who participated in this thread meant any harm to Sherry and I think everybody behaved in an adult way until you got involved with the mud slinging. We are all adults here and it is insulting when the "bead police" start treating us like naughty children.

We are obviously not on the same page and that's fine. If you go back a read my posts, I have said that I don't think anybody meant to harm Sherry. Take care.

[Carmen Isaacs]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley

We are obviously not on the same page and that's fine. If you go back a read my posts, I have said that I don't think anybody meant to harm Sherry. Take care.

I am sorry Brent but I just don't have the time to waste going back through all your long posts to see where you didn't say this and might I add I didn't say you said it but you sure gave everybody a slap on the wrist like we were all naughty children.

[Mr. Smiley]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley

I'm really glad you guys had fun. That's really part of what glass and this forum should be about. In your fun, you guys did miss something. I pointed it out, not in the hopes of spoiling good fun, but in the hopes of sparing the feelings of future innovators. We have to be careful of where we tread... feelings do get hurt. I may not have been as nice to Kevan as I could have been, but that's due to a history and I really just don't like her. I'll admit that. It's no secret. I am sorry for bringing any negativity I did to the table.

As far as you starting this thread, I don't think you had any ill will. I don't think anybody intentionally set out with bad thoughts in their head. I just think there's other projects to come together and work out... to have fun with and explore together. There are tons of things in nature... in our own work... in our own imaginations that aren't connected to people. As Kevan said in another thread... Mother nature (imaginary being) won't get upset if we copy her. If we set out to copy or reproduce another beadmakers work, there is a risk of it causing hard feelings. My intent was to point that out... not debate whether or not a person should even get their feelings hurt by being copied.

I've even been working on something today that I'd put up for a challenge. It's something I came up with and was going to offer it to be figured out. Not sure if that's a good idea or not now.

I found it for you...

[Mr. Smiley]

Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs

I am sorry Brent but I just don't have the time to waste going back through all your long posts to see where you didn't say this and might I add I didn't say you said it but you sure gave everybody a slap on the wrist like we were all naughty children.

As far as slapping everybody on the wrist for behaving like children... not everybody has behaved like a child... and you didn't either until recently. I got a little childish yesterday, being the smart ass that I am... but I haven't resorted to name calling and direct insults like you have. I am sorry I struck such a nerve with you, but this thread struck a nerve with a lot of other people. Just because they don't choose to join in the thread, doesn't mean they aren't talking about it. I just happen to be the one who said something... I figured I would try to say it as nice as I could. So fire away if it makes you feel better.

[Carmen Isaacs]

So glad you wasted more of you time on nonsense .......if you read my post you would have read that I wrote....."might I add I didn't say you said it". I am now unsubscribing from this dreadful thread which quite honestly belonged in the bathroom because what started off as pleasant now stinks to high heaven.

[lori 2]

BRENT REMEMBER WHAT YOU SAID!
"I've even been working on something today that I'd put up for a challenge. It's something I came up with and was going to offer it to be figured out. Not sure if that's a good idea or not now."

Some of us are waiting for you to 'Bring it On!'

LET'S GET BACK TO HAVING SOME FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Carmen Isaacs]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley

As far as slapping everybody on the wrist for behaving like children... not everybody has behaved like a child... and you didn't either until recently. I got a little childish yesterday, being the smart ass that I am... but I haven't resorted to name calling and direct insults like you have. I am sorry I struck such a nerve with you, but this thread struck a nerve with a lot of other people. Just because they don't choose to join in the thread, doesn't mean they aren't talking about it. I just happen to be the one who said something... I figured I would try to say it as nice as I could. So fire away if it makes you feel better.

Wow Brent ...... I never thought I would agree with you!! You are absolutely right......when you start treating adults like children they start behaving like children. I have now sunk to your level and boy am I ashamed of myself. I do apologize.

[Mr. Smiley]

Sorry Lori... I'll get something up some where else.

[DarleenMB]

this whole mess is why I occasionally leave this forum and stay away for weeks at a time.

It just wears me out.

[Shawn T]

Originally Posted by suzanne

but was it fun for Sherry? I don't mean this in a nasty way but do you think Sherry was bouncing off the walls out of pure joy to see her design beeing picked apart while she is working her butt off to make a tutorial? I can imagine some of the stuff happening with her technique definetly hurt her feelings. Maybe I am completely wrong here, I appologize in advance , but this issue has bothered me for a while now.

Exactly!

This is what has bothered me when people talk about having fun in this thread.
Who's technique is next?
Which lampworker is going to find out that their bead they worked hard on devolving is going to find a thread in here. It is one thing to figure something out on your own, it is another to do it on a public forum without the consent of the person who's bead your trying to figure out.

If many people feel this is an ok thing to do, than what is so stop everyone form going on to the next bead..the next bead maker?

[lori 2]

You hit on a good question, Shawn.
I am still gleaning what there is to learn from this weird thread.

I can appreciate the sensitivity many have to the "nastiness" that has popped it's ugly head up.

But beyond that, on a friendlier note, honest, no hard feelings intended, and if you have stuck it out this long, maybe you too are wondering;

What makes this 'public forum' any different than a bunch of us getting together and talking and sharing ideas. Maybe we know who made a bead, or maybe not. Maybe we learned something in a class, or a book. Maybe we have a picture we saw in a magazine or in a shop window. Maybe we have figured something out we thought couldn' t be done is soft glass, or that looks like boro...,
Get my drift?

I do believe that imitation is a sincere form of flattery.
I also think that if someone's livelhood depends on one technique they are going to have to guard it pretty well.

If anyone is still here, I want to be sure you know this is an honest remark..., no smirking, sarcasm, or disrespect intended.
If we could continue this in a fresh, non-incident inspired forum, would it be worthwhile?

Just me,
Lori 2
P.S. I have been accused of being a Pollyanna, but sometimes good things come out of intense debate.

[AKDesigns]

Originally Posted by lori 2

What makes this 'public forum' any different than a bunch of us getting together and talking and sharing ideas. .

The difference is that it's still kept between the three or four of you that are discussing it in person. Here everyone and their sister can "eaves drop" so to speak. This thread has been viewed over 13,000 times.

[ChristinaColligan]

Originally Posted by Lynne Smith

I love the implosion? hearts that Anouk is making. I wondered if there was a turtorial anywhere that could explain the process to me. Sherry makes similar beads. I need, need to know this.
If anyone has ideas or knows how this is done, please share.
Thanks so much,
Lynne S

Do you remember what this thread was started - it kind of sounded like the weekly challenge.... everyone on this forum at one time or another has "probably"(please don't misquote me I said probably) tried the weekly challenge - now in the weekly challenge i am sure you've seen blown vessels *holy cow batman* that could be by an artist who has made that technique well know - we can't do it....
or the flower beads - raised or sunken??? who claims those??
were is the LEGAL politically correct list for tutorials?
Hold on I think I found it.....

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...94&postcount=2

in this list of tutorials how of the people who typed up, took pictures of the techniques in here actually invented that particular thing? I don't see people getting upset over free information from someone who figures out a technique and decided to post it there.

In 2006 this was a copper mesh thread posted.....
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=37491
Not exactly what Sherry made "famous" but it discussed copper mesh 2 years ago.

It is FUN trying to figure things out, maybe this should have been a weekly challenge and not a discussion. b/c obviously trying to figure things out in public is a no, no. Even if this thread is viewed 1million times per day it is still a public forum. It's supposed to be a place were we can share ideas and learn from our community, our 'friends'.... I didn't come to this forum to be a competitor- I came to learn and make friends - maybe some of us are in the wrong place, it could be me. I give up. Have a great one guys and gals.

[chrissij]

I don't fault Brent for bringing everyone's attention to the fact that someone's design was being picked apart, and that this someone's feelings could be being hurt. Somewhere along the line, that consideration seemed to have been lost. Not faulting anyone for joining in on the fun, or trying to figure out how the bead was done, just reiterating that more than someone's potential livelihood was being touched on here. Someone's feelings were, and some people are too private to let anyone know.

'Ya know?

Next, I don't fault anyone for feeling like they're being scolded like a kid with their hand caught in the cookie jar, but there's no need to make anything worse than it currently is, or read more into it than was intended.

Now I think everyone should just shake it off, realize we're all in this medium because we find it fun, and we all participate in this forum for the comradarie.

Lastly, I'm a little miffed about the LE Country Club comments. This is the friendliest forum I've ever participated in, and there isn't a single person who frequents this forum who wouldn't help anyone else out in a pinch. Period.

My two cents, worthless in today's economy unless I melt it down.

[ShellyD]

Firstly, the design was not picked apart. Secondly, the Chaos bead was not copied and thirdly this is about a technique.

Now in one thread it is okay to copy a technique but in this thread it is not. WHY??? It's allegedly new and I'm under the impression of some monetary value. The only reason why I believe everyone might be getting there knickers in a knot.

As for the LE Country Club, I made it, I believe it and I stick by it. Like I said I am allowed to have my opinions just as anybody else does. And because it says 'A friendly place to bring.................' doesn't necessarily mean it is true. I've seen plenty unfriendly and downright nasty posts in the last few weeks. And two wrongs never make a right.

[chrissij]

Michelle, you are welcome to your opinion. I just happen to disagree.

[suzanne]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Firstly, the design was not picked apart. Secondly, the Chaos bead was not copied and thirdly this is about a technique.

yes it was, yes it was, yes it is BUT there is a thin line of ethics and imo this line was crossed by some people. Definetly not intentional, not to hurt people but I think the line was crossed. Also, her Chaos beads have been copied. Maybe not by the people in this thread but I have seen knock offs of her design, just like I've seen knock offs of Kimberley's seahorses, Kim Neelys perfect storm beads, Sharon Peters Jester, Jenifer and Andrea's totempole colaboration and many many more.

Imo there is a huge difference between a technique such as an encased floral bead and a signature bead such as Sherry's Chaos beads. I think Kevan gave her beads a completely different look ,even though it had the copper mesh in it. I think all of you did, but there are people reading these threads and they are not as nice and polite ( and dare I say creative) to give this technique their own twist.

Same goes for the Andrea hearts, or Teresa godesses. Both shapes are free to use for whomever chooses to, but if I decided to use the exact same colors, same feel, same patterns and so on, it's no longer beeing a technique beeing incorporated in my art.

[suzanne]

and as far as the nasty comments, I completey agree with you, I've seen more then my share of nasty snarky comments from people but I don't feel they are in some kind of club together. It's just one of those things that happen on every single board I've been ( hmz.. maybe it's because of me that people do it )

[Mr. Smiley]

Originally Posted by ShellyD

Firstly, the design was not picked apart. Secondly, the Chaos bead was not copied and thirdly this is about a technique.

Now in one thread it is okay to copy a technique but in this thread it is not. WHY??? It's allegedly new and I'm under the impression of some monetary value. The only reason why I believe everyone might be getting there knickers in a knot.

As for the LE Country Club, I made it, I believe it and I stick by it. Like I said I am allowed to have my opinions just as anybody else does. And because it says 'A friendly place to bring.................' doesn't necessarily mean it is true. I've seen plenty unfriendly and downright nasty posts in the last few weeks. And two wrongs never make a right.

Wrong #1= you saw people get nasty

wrong #2= you lump everybody together and insult our members as a group

does #1 + #2 = a right?

[Wild Fancy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley

Sherry, you have been so nice. It's refreshing to see you handle this as well as you have. You have taken a situation where some folks may not have shown you the respect you deserve and have handled it with grace. You have shown a calm approach that most artists would not be capable of, if this was a technique they had developed. You have some serious cool points in my book.

A note to everybody trying to figure this out... this is a very specific technique Sherry has come up with. It has taken her much time and thought to develop such a unique bead. Ask yourself what level of respect you would like to have from other bead makers if and when you come up with something like this... and act accordingly. Sherry has said she will share her technique and is writing a tutorial. I hope that everyone who uses this technique will purchase it, if she decides to charge for it. People should also give her credit for coming up with the design / technique when you sell the ones you make. She deserves to be recognized as the inspiration for the beads posted here... and I hope she fills all her classes and sells a ton of her tutorials. Something like this doesn't come along every day... please let her generous spirit and talent bring her everything she deserves...

Much love and happy torching...

Beautifully said Mr. Smiley, You rock too!

Suz

[Mr. Smiley]

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...97#post1923097

as an added bonus, if you posted a bead attempting the tech in this thread and YOU win this challenge, I'll add $100 cash to the first place prize.

Beads must have been posted BEFORE this post.