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| Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions. |
2009-10-08, 8:27pm
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Covered in glitter
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Join Date: Jun 16, 2005
Posts: 15,680
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Lovin' the Dark Side but...
I'm really enjoying playing with boro but...always a but, right? How in the heck do you learn and actually remember what all the darn glass does? With 104, I know 99.8% of the time what I'm going to get but with boro I feel like it's just a crap shoot. It starts out looking like one thing and ends up looking like something else. It's not always, or even generally, bad but it's so hard to know what to do with the stuff. I mixed some 'Dougie Pink' yesterday and ended up with something completely different. I liked it a lot but it wasn't what I was trying to make. This is all very, very confusing to a long time 104 person. Any hints for how to get it all together in my head?
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~Deb~
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And those who were seen dancing were thought insane by those who couldn't hear the music. --Nietzsche
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2009-10-08, 9:18pm
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Harold Williams Cooney
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Join Date: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 713
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Hints? Sure.
Forget about it.
It's nice to have a plan in life, to know what you are going to do and how you are going to do it; to be able to see what you will complete before you have even embarked on the project.
But that ain't the way this is boro thing is gonna play out for you.
Forget about it. Forget about getting it all together in your head. Accept as a gift that you don't know, that perhaps, for what ever reason, the glass doesn't want you to know.
It just wants you to be. To create. To be free from your preconceptions and preparations; to toss aside your ideas and mechanical ideologies. To begin from no ware the long path into the unknown.
You already have the base knowledge necessary to work with any glass in the flame. Perhaps what you need is permission to be free from your lampworking past.
My hint?
Toss out the directions. Get rid of the road map. Forget about Dougie Pink. Don't even say Dougie Pink.
Do Deb's thing. Discover Deb's thing. Let yourself fall in love with boro. Not through a book or a tutorial but through discovery and pointless experimentation. Shoot from the hip, you know? Kill now, ask questions later.
Be free. Totally free.
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2009-10-09, 5:31am
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Pyromaniac
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Join Date: Aug 12, 2006
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,868
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The only thing you can be sure of in boro is clear, and the "what you see is what you get" colors. All the rest are a wonderful crazy surprise as Harold said.
The same cane will do completely different things depending on flame chemistry, time in the flame, time in the kiln, what other colors are next to it or under or over it, striking, haze, whether I'm holding my mouth right. Two different people can get totally different colors out of Tequila sunrise for example. One gets orange and the other gets pink.
The whole boro experience reminds me of my chemistry labs in college. If you take copious notes on the environment surrounding your experiment, and repeat it exactly, then you have a chance of the same results. Even then . . .
After working with colors for a while (and I am definitely still learning) I'll remember a color that does a certain thing and work it to get the same result, but even then the stars have to be aligned.
This is why I love boro!
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Lana
Sexy Barracuda and Mirage
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2009-10-09, 5:44am
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The Battle of Boro Boro
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Join Date: Mar 16, 2009
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Posts: 171
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Deb,
HMC and I think on the exact same page.
What makes boro so beautiful in all aspects is it's ability to transform in it's OWN way. You as an artist are only a mechanism to it for it to get from one point to another. In the end...all we can do is accept that fact and go with it.
In time and practice, you'll learn what colors work for you the best...then, just use your skills to nudge it in the right direction and let it do the rest. I guarantee you'll be happy with the results.
Here's is something I do still everyday and it helps me both creatively and mentally...
1) Buy a 5 lb or bunch of shorts and put them in a box.
2) At the start of each torch session reach in, mix them around a bit and WITHOUT looking... pick one rod.
3) Now, here is the fun and tricky part. No matter what it is...create something with it. It's more challenging than you think, especially when you pick a color that you don't like. (For me, it's sublime.)
4) Here's a hint...work with tones and hues. Is it a bluish rod? Could be simple as Cobalt, or a silvered blue such as Blue Passion. YOU don't know. All you can do is use what you DO know and that is how to create with glass.
5) Grab some clear, white, black, or what you think will be a complimentary color and HAVE FUN!
Hope this makes sense...I need some coffee.
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~ Jamie
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2009-10-09, 6:00am
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Borovangelist
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Join Date: Jan 26, 2007
Location: Auburn, MA
Posts: 3,002
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All of the above, but if you need something....
Make note of which colors tend to be more stable, it's easier to remember. For example, cherrywood strike pretty reliably turns a nice red color after the kiln (sometimes before). Garnet's red, cobalt usually stays blue (I turned it green...not good), elvis red and yellow are reliably red and yellow, and unless you burn it, white's white.
But anything that strikes is going to be a crapshoot. Usually it's a good one regardless, but there are no guarantees.
Oh, and the borostix mostly hold their colors well. Anything not on your stable list is just fun 
edit: about the borostix, I meant that they're pretty reliably the same color in and out of the flame. Saturation is another issue LOL. Some people swear by spring purple, other people say it washes out.
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-Tom
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2009-10-09, 6:17am
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Does my glass look 2 big?
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Join Date: Jun 21, 2006
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 613
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Never done any boro, have my heart set on a Scorpio....
...this glass sounds liberating, just my cup of tea I think....
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2009-10-09, 9:45am
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Covered in glitter
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Join Date: Jun 16, 2005
Posts: 15,680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HWCGlass
Hints? Sure.
Forget about it.
It's nice to have a plan in life, to know what you are going to do and how you are going to do it; to be able to see what you will complete before you have even embarked on the project.
But that ain't the way this is boro thing is gonna play out for you.
Forget about it. Forget about getting it all together in your head. Accept as a gift that you don't know, that perhaps, for what ever reason, the glass doesn't want you to know.
It just wants you to be. To create. To be free from your preconceptions and preparations; to toss aside your ideas and mechanical ideologies. To begin from no ware the long path into the unknown.
You already have the base knowledge necessary to work with any glass in the flame. Perhaps what you need is permission to be free from your lampworking past.
My hint?
Toss out the directions. Get rid of the road map. Forget about Dougie Pink. Don't even say Dougie Pink.
Do Deb's thing. Discover Deb's thing. Let yourself fall in love with boro. Not through a book or a tutorial but through discovery and pointless experimentation. Shoot from the hip, you know? Kill now, ask questions later.
Be free. Totally free.
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I think I love you.  
You all are so right. Just reading these answers is freeing. It's going to be a wonderful journey even if I don't know exactly where the train is taking me. Thanks!
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~Deb~
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And those who were seen dancing were thought insane by those who couldn't hear the music. --Nietzsche
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2009-10-09, 11:35am
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Know-it-all Megalomaniac
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Join Date: Oct 22, 2005
Location: Californication
Posts: 6,282
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While I love colors just like the next gal,
I used to get mentally constipated about choosing my colors
for the day when I worked in soft glass. When I discovered
striking glass on the soft side, it was an amazing thing for me.
Boro, is all about that. It's letting go of set ideas about color
combos and how YOU want things to be. It's an organic flow
of glass and heat and flame and in the middle of it, you're just trying
to make everything happen.
It's like herding chickens...you have an idea of what you want, but sometimes the
chickens get their way too.
Every time I open the kiln, it's a surprise. I can TOTALLY understand why
many soft glass people would be very frustrated working with boro.
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2009-10-11, 6:01am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 08, 2005
Location: Beautiful Colorado
Posts: 2,120
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Yup! Always a surprise! DH and I were working the same colors ~ He got fantastic colors and I got baby poop. I even used same colors on his torch.... baby poop! Next day ~ same colors and I got great color and he had baby poop! So ya just never know... lol...
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Leslie
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2009-10-11, 8:37am
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Covered in glitter
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Guess it's going to be a bit difficult to make anything twice. LOL With soft glass I can sit down at the torch with a good idea of what I'm going to make but it sounds like with boro I'm going to be sitting down and letting the boro do the driving. It should be an interesting time.
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~Deb~
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And those who were seen dancing were thought insane by those who couldn't hear the music. --Nietzsche
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2009-10-11, 10:30am
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Megan's personal Sherpa
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Join Date: Sep 02, 2008
Location: Wasington State
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As one soft-glass-worker-gone-to-the-dar-side to another AND also a Deb, I had a learning curve to experience before I started to figure out the boro thing too! I think the best advice I got came from one of these wonderful boro folks early on and that was to choose a striking color and work with it for 2 weeks, combine it with different glass.....clear, black, white, etc. to see what you get. Then move on to another color and play with it! I have found that I can get unexpected results in the most unexpected ways at times! It's really fun when you let go of your preconcieved ideas about what results you SHOULD get and learn to stop with the surprising results you DO get before you really muck it up!
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Deb
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2009-10-11, 4:54pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 24, 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 915
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Boro is like baking a cake. Soft glass is like decorating a cake.
I'm a baker.
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2009-10-12, 12:22am
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Harold Williams Cooney
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Join Date: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 713
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Soft Glass:
Boro:
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2009-10-12, 12:34am
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Harold Williams Cooney
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Join Date: Jan 13, 2009
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Soft Glass:
Boro:
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2009-10-12, 12:41am
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Harold Williams Cooney
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Soft glass:
Boro:
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2009-10-12, 12:49am
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Harold Williams Cooney
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Soft Glass:
Boro:
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2009-10-12, 12:54am
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Harold Williams Cooney
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Soft Glass:
Boro:
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2009-10-12, 12:58am
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Harold Williams Cooney
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Soft Glass:
Boro:
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2009-10-12, 1:02am
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Harold Williams Cooney
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Join Date: Jan 13, 2009
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Soft glass is the mother of all lampworking glasses; from it all that is boro was born. I like to make fun of mandrel turning 104's because it's like teasing my sister. It's just so easy. There is no harm intended.
Sometimes I reach the obvious conclusion, that if I was truly a skilled glass worker I would see no difference between the two materials in either a tactile or a social sense; that i do see those differences, i have to believe, means I have a lot to learn about glass.
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2009-10-12, 5:37pm
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Covered in glitter
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LOL You are definitely a boro snob and that's totally OK. I think there are big differences and I'm looking forward to exploring the boro differences. I know there are things that I will be able to do in one COE that I won't in the other and that sounds like a lot of fun.
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~Deb~
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And those who were seen dancing were thought insane by those who couldn't hear the music. --Nietzsche
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2009-10-12, 5:49pm
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Harold Williams Cooney
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ouch, boro snob.
well better than a boro #*&% face.
no offense, just humor intended.
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2009-10-13, 10:40pm
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Megan's personal Sherpa
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I don't think anyone who compares boro to the pictures that you chose as descriptions can really be called a snob........perhaps a free spirited anti-establishmentarian! How the heck do you see the two so accurately and then manage to find just the right pics to make the contrast? Dude, you're too much!
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Deb
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2009-10-13, 11:31pm
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I'm a lilac!
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Location: Portland, Oregon
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I gotta agree with HWC... boro is a thing that is hard to predict, hard to control, and over time with familiarity you kind of, almost, become one with it. And the big challenge is that with soft glass, if you are experimental enough, you can find it almost as unpredictable.
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2009-10-14, 11:45am
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Covered in glitter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HWCGlass
ouch, boro snob.
well better than a boro #*&% face.
no offense, just humor intended.
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LOL I realize there was no offense intended and I didn't take any. I didn't mean any by 'boro snob' either!
I can't wait to explore boro and see what I can do with it. I always put off using it because I felt that I wanted to be pretty much able to do what I wanted to do with 104 before I started something else. I finally feel that way (even though I know that are TONS of things I can't do with 104) and am really looking forward to this journey.
Sorry if you thought I was offended or if I offended with my comment. 
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~Deb~
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And those who were seen dancing were thought insane by those who couldn't hear the music. --Nietzsche
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2009-10-14, 12:18pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 08, 2005
Location: Beautiful Colorado
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Harold, you are just too funny, man! I was laughing so hard when the boss entered my office.... No way to explain any of this to him!
Yes, they are like day and night but that's the really cool, intresting, frustrating, and exciting part of it all.
My problems is I have way too much glass ~ 90, 104, 96, 33 and want to play with it all. So many things I want to try, so many techniques and things to do with the beads, glass when it comes out of the kiln. So just why is it that I was born poor and not rich??? lol...
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Leslie
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2009-10-17, 6:18pm
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Is it Torch Time Yet?
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Join Date: Aug 08, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HWCGlass
Soft glass is the mother of all lampworking glasses; from it all that is boro was born. I like to make fun of mandrel turning 104's because it's like teasing my sister. It's just so easy. There is no harm intended.
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LOL....love the comparisons you did, even if I did feel my leg getting yanked a couple times. As far as teasing...it's bad enough I have four brothers, now I gotta put up with you too? LOL
TorchSinger
Mandrel-spinning hard and soft glass girl (and a little off-mandrel just for fun)
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2009-10-17, 8:01pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 27, 2005
Location: Tennessee
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I find the hardest thing when I try boro is letting go of my very intricate, very "true to life" aspects of what I make in a bead. It's what makes my bead, in my style anyways, to me.......It's just like my drawings. I'm a very tight realist and find it very difficult to be "abstract"...that is what makes it hard for me to change...I like minute perfect detail that drives me....letting go and just doing somwthing to be surprised hasn't and isn't my style. I fight it every time I sit and pull out a stick of boro....and damn, I really, really, really like pink.... 
Ok..I can hear ya,....what a control freak!
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2009-10-18, 5:22am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 07, 2008
Location: Northern NY State
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OMG, this whole thread has cracked me up! I love the photos as examples!
This is why I love boro and have never even tried soft glass:
The Unpredictable Nature of it
It's always a surprise, a discovery, a big old TA-DA!!!!
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