Boro, boro, in the flame...why, or why, won't you strike and who's to blame?

VenusBeads · #1 2006-12-18, 1:31pm

I'd love some boro help from anyone willing to share their tips. (If there is already a really great boro thread addressing my concerns, then please direct me to it! Gracias!)

I'm new to boro and I'm about to jump ship. Here's what's happening. I have Doug R's book and video and I still can't get the beautiful colors that he gets! I melt the heck out of the bead, take it out of the flame to cool, put it back in, and sorta get sludge. Putting the beads in the kiln at his suggested temps don't seem to help either. What am I doing wrong?! (My one ray of hope is a beautiful fuchsia bead that I made and I don't know how I got it. The other five that I made with the same glass came out a dull mauve!!!)

I use a Red Max torch (Minor on top for soft glass), with an Integra 10 concentrator and propane. I tried adjusting the flame to get what GA calls a neutral flame, but when I do that, it's takes until the end of forever for it to melt. Life is too short, help!

Another problem that I'm having is that I keep ending up with bent mandrel tips. Any way to avoid this and still get a bead to melt in a decent amount of time? While we're on that subject, how long should it be taking me to melt an average bead? Am I just too impatient after working with soft glass all this time?

Thanks for any and all suggestions and tips!!

Cosmo · #2 2006-12-18, 1:41pm

Try this:

Take a rod of GA Purple Luster (the easiest glass in the world to strike). Make a bead on a mandrel using just Purple Luster. Shape it and heat it up very hot. So hot that it goes completely clear.

Take it out of the flame (keep rotating it obviously) and let it cool for 45 seconds. When it first starts to cool, it should be almost completely clear. A few seconds later you should start to notice wisps of yellow in it. That is what you want. Once you see those wisps start to develop, take the bead back to the flame about 8" or so away from the tip of the torch. Almost out where you can't see the flame any more.

In 20 seconds or so it should turn purple. If so, congratulations! You just got the color to strike. That will give you the basic steps involved in striking.

Personally, while I think Doug's video is great, I don't think it's the best for people just starting. I think you should start with solid color - no clear. When you add clear, things get more complicated. I'm sure you've noticed the haze that builds up on colors like Triple Passion, Amber Purple, etc. when you heat them. Burning off that haze is the key to striking. With the haze it won't strike. When you make a cane like Doug does, it's easy to trap haze on the glass. Also, when you wrap that cane around a mandrel, you can trap haze. Notice how hot Doug works? Notice how he works with the outer flame of his CC running? That's to burn off the haze.

If you are using the bottom flame of the Red Max with that concentrator, that may be a lot of your problem. Even with a larger concentrator like that, you aren't getting a good flame on a Red Max. It may be a somewhat big flame, but chances are it's pretty reducing, which won't allow the colors to strike properly. Try it with the Minor flame. Really crank it up. Heat is your friend.

Hope that helps. If not, let me know...

Karen Hardy · #3 2006-12-18, 3:33pm

Awesome explaination.
You rock Chad!

hotflashwanda · #4 2006-12-18, 3:46pm

I agree with Cosmo, you're getting muddy colors because your flame is reducing. For beads, you should use the Minor--you can get a neutral to oxidizing flame that way with your concentrator--and you won't hurt the mandrels as easily.

I have a Barracuda and use the inner flame for beads--the only time I use the outer flame is if I'm making a big bead that I've already clear-cased. The large flame is speedy for melting it all down and rounding it up.
Anita
www.fireflybeads.com

Emily · #5 2006-12-18, 3:49pm

But then what do you do when you want to use a color that isn't Purple Luster, and when you DO want to put clear over it? How do you translate the experience of getting that one color to work in that particular way to other colors and other circumstances?

If I want to work with a color like triple passion or amber purple, what do you suggest I do? If I'm making a bead, should I do a wrap or two of my triple passion, get it hot, then see how fast I can encase it? At what point do I try to strike it?

FosterFire · #6 2006-12-18, 4:14pm

Quick FYI - Glass Alchemy's website has a ton of good techie info
www.glassalchemyarts.com

It's hard to say what the true temp in your kiln is - the temp in Doug's DVD should have been 1075. After the DVd was out they measured the tempin his kiln vs what the controller said. Just think 1075 whenever you hear 1150. That will help.

sandree · #7 2006-12-18, 5:26pm

You have gotten some great advice. When I make an encased bead, I generally make a small base bead, decorate it (try just rolling in one color of frit to start with), then encase it with clear. You don't need to cool the base bead as you would with soft glass because it won't smear, in fact you want to just move right on to encasing when the frit is melted in. Then continue heating until the bead condenses and rounds up. I rotate the bead with just the bottom of the bead in the flame rather than centering the bead in the flame. This helps to stop the mandrels from bending and burning up.

You might want to try some of the boro blues and greens (maybe GA indigo luster with GA silver strike 5 frit). I don't usually strike the blues and greens as they look brighter and cleaner without striking. I think the purples and reds are harder to work with. My flame is a bit reducing also and I really have to crank up the oxygen to keep things from turning to poop. The other thing that works well with beads is to use some what you see is what you get colors for your base and the silver colors for decoration. I stay away from the crayon colors because they tend to boil but the transparents and sparkle colors are nice.

I started out using Doug Remschneider's very long annealing times but found that they didn't work well for me. I have ended up just annealing at 1050 for 1/2 hour (garaging the beads at 960). If I want to develop color in the kiln I raise the temp to 1075 for 1/2 hour, then go down to 1050 for 1/2 hour to anneal. But I usually just strike the beads in the flame and at 1050 they really don't develop much more in the kiln.

This is just what I do...I think everyone has their own personal preferences with boro and you have to find what works with your torch and kiln. I agree that the larger flame of your torch is probably a difficult one to get good colors with.

Hope I didn't confuse you more!!
Sandy

Cosmo · #8 2006-12-19, 6:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily

But then what do you do when you want to use a color that isn't Purple Luster, and when you DO want to put clear over it? How do you translate the experience of getting that one color to work in that particular way to other colors and other circumstances?

If I want to work with a color like triple passion or amber purple, what do you suggest I do? If I'm making a bead, should I do a wrap or two of my triple passion, get it hot, then see how fast I can encase it? At what point do I try to strike it?

Triple Passion and Amber Purple work the same as Purple Luster. Purple Luster is just easier to strike. With others, you just have to strike it a little longer.

When you want to put clear over it, get the color really hot like you are getting ready to strike it. Then get the clear really hot and soupy, and encase it quickly before it stirkes. It takes a little practice to know just the right time. But, once you do that, you can strike it like normal when you are done. It will just take longer, since you have to let the clear get hot before the color gets hot. The key is keeping it hot and colorless as much as you can while working it. If you let it cool too much and then reheat it, it doesn't work.

I generally kiln strike colors that are encased because I'm impatient, and they seem to strike more consistently for me. I put them in the kiln at 1000 (I usually anneal at 1050) and hold them there until I'm done making that type of thing, then raise my kiln to 1100 for 20-30 minutes (longer if it's something thick like a marble), then ramp it down to 1050 and hold it there for the remainder of the time I'm working. The reason for holding it at 1000 to begin with is that's below striking temperature, but warm enough to prevent them breaking. Certain colors will get darker the longer they strike, so I strike them in the kiln all at one time and it's usually pretty consistent.

Cosmo · #9 2006-12-19, 6:29am

Oh, and just a little shameless plug here...

In my boro beginners pack, I have step by step instructions with pictures for striking a bead.

Around the first of the year, a friend of mine who is a film student is coming to stay with me for a month and we are going to do a series of video tutorials as well. Striking will be one of the first ones we do...

VenusBeads · #10 2006-12-19, 8:15am

Thanks so much for all of your comments and help!!!

Cosmo ~ I did the purple luster test bead and it's BEAUTIFUL!! I didn't even break a sweat getting it to strike. Once I did that I even tried to encase one and that was cool too! (You can't imagine the screams of joy that came from my studio.) I know it will probaly be a while, but if you have an email list to let people know when your videos come out, sign me up!

I need to play with my torch a little more to try and get that neutral flame and I'll try just using my Minor today and not the Red Max and see if I can save my poor mandrels and if it helps with striking. I plan to take all the rest of your comments and ideas with me to the torch today and see what other cool stuff I can do.

Still open for any and all tips and I'll be checking the boro room often, you guys rock!!