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  #1  
Old 2016-01-27, 12:00pm
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Default Would these didys work for 104? @@

Hey, I have talked to the seller of these a couple times, and they don't know if these didys would block the soda flare or not. She has called the manufacturer, and they aren't getting back to her.....

These would fit over prescription glasses, and are priced too good to be true... I would try a pair but shipping is over $9 each way....

Do you guys know if these would work for glass work? I mean, isn't didymium just didymium?

https://www.baileypottery.com/Results.aspx?s=Didymium
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  #2  
Old 2016-01-27, 12:03pm
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No, those are for kilnwork, not flamework. Devardi has inexpensive clip-ons and also a desk shield that is about half the price of the others on the market.

http://www.devardiglass.com/glasses.htm
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  #3  
Old 2016-01-27, 12:10pm
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Thank you, shawnette, I use Devardi for lots of my tools, love em, I was just wondering about these when I saw them... ( hate clip ons; they don't find my glasses. )

Can you tell me what the difference is between these and our purple didys?
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Old 2016-01-27, 1:27pm
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I don't know the difference, but I asked Mike Aurelius about them years ago at a Gathering in KC and he said no. I don't remember the details, but I do know that I still have my Auras and they are awesome. Maybe you could ask him...?
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  #5  
Old 2016-01-27, 1:30pm
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Off the top of my head, kiln work would require primarily reducing infrared exposure and flamework would require that and soda flare and some others I think. Probably UltraViolet as well.

ETA Mikes web site has diagrams that show how some types of light are blocked more that others and the ability to block the bright yellow soda flare but still let you see that you have the butter yellow glass in your hands is down right magic in my book.


But Yeah, unfortunately you get what you pay for when it comes to safety stuff.
Although you can pay more than you need to you really don't want to pay less upfront because you will pay for difference later in life.
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Last edited by Speedslug; 2016-01-27 at 1:35pm.
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  #6  
Old 2016-01-27, 1:38pm
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Those are great prices at Devardi.


I will have to browse their site again. It's been a few years.
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  #7  
Old 2016-01-27, 2:28pm
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I like their clip-ons for the boro work.

I will say though, eye protection is great, but according to other threads & posts here on LE, the soda flare from soft glass 104 is not significant enough to cause any harm if you don't wear the didymium kind.
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  #8  
Old 2016-01-27, 2:39pm
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I had read that lampworkers and glass factory workers had increased incidence of cataracts and retina damage.

But all of the information seemed be from mid century industrial hygiene studies and might have been biased toward insurance claims and or over active lawyers trying to cover the companies "fiduciary assets".

My thoughts have a heavy flavoring of Navy Safety First training so my brainwashing may be pretty much cemented deep.
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Old 2016-01-27, 2:40pm
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Nothing wrong with being safe.
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  #10  
Old 2016-01-27, 6:06pm
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Interestingly, I got a call back from the store selling these after I posted this thread. She had finally heard back from the manufacturer, and they said that yes these would block soda flare and could be used with glass work...

This puts me right back where I was at!! Lol... I trust you guys, but if the manufacturers say yes?

The other feature that I like about these, is that is says they are darker than regular didys, which I would like, as I am having eye fatigue, but the really dark greens needed for Boro are too dark for me... I have been unhappy with my eye protection for a long time... And the devardi shield is only 4 inches... And 8 inches high... That's pretty small...

Now I guess I am gonna have to just buy em and test em... :-/
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  #11  
Old 2016-01-27, 6:11pm
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You are making me think. I have a shield, and while I love not having to wear two pair of glasses, or glasses and clipons, the shield is kind of dark. I have been thinking about looking for a lighter one, but now I wonder if I won't like it.

I haven't actually found a lighter one the same size yet, but I have been scouting a little for one.
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  #12  
Old 2016-01-27, 6:26pm
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I have been scouting for better eye protection at a price I can afford for months. I have the devardi glasses, and they are perfectly adequate, but I can't wear my glasses under them, and the clips didn't fit, so I am limited in time, before my eyes strain and I can't focus right the rest of the day... So frustrating.

That's how I stumbled on these didys at the baileys site, cause I am literally scouring the Internet for options. These seem like a good middle ground... But I will miss my pretty purple lenses...
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  #13  
Old 2016-01-27, 7:30pm
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I use two 400 watt halogen work lights in my torch hood as well as an 18 inch fluorescent under counter light and a 22 watt circular magnifier lamp when I am torching.

My eyes are really good at seeing in low light but I turn it up to counter the filtering of my eye protection so I can judge colors correctly.
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Old 2016-01-27, 7:37pm
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why do people who don't know the answer
make stuff up?
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  #15  
Old 2016-01-28, 1:33pm
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I'm not sure if you'll find this thread helpful but you might:
http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227475
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Old 2016-01-28, 1:42pm
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also these http://www.isgb.org/forum/showthread...dymium-glasses

https://mikeaurelius.wordpress.com/2...t-uvireyewear/
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  #17  
Old 2016-01-28, 7:29pm
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Thank you, I have actually read that thread before. I can't afford the glasses they are talking about, and I am wondering about the didys in the link above. If any of the experienced and intelligent people here knew what didy 2 referred to? If these would be safe with 104, etc.

I am just going to order a pair, and test em... Pray that I don't have to return them with these crazy shipping rates...
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  #18  
Old 2016-01-28, 8:08pm
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Edit -- CAUTION: See information at the end of the post.

First, I should say that I have no definitive information. That is, I used to know where the AuraLens charts are and that most other eyeware glass came from Schott, and Schott also provides spectrum charts. But now, most eyeware is no longer glass. Phillips used to make the glass eyeshields (I believe with Schott glass), but Schott has not done a run with that coating in a long time, and now Phillips uses polycarbonate for their shields and plates (referring to the ACE 202 coated or tinted material).

Although this is mentioned in the thread, have you been to the Wale Apparatus site? They have an explanation of their S and SB series, which might interest you. Right now the Wale fitovers are on sale for $50, which, if I remember, is a lot less than I payed last time.
https://www.waleapparatus.com/product/fit-over-style/
I have the S-series, which is transmits more light than the glasses I am used to. However, personally, I would use the S-series in addition to a shield, or when I am further away from the torch, so find them to be good for our local ISGB monthly demonstrations.

The glasses in the photo do not look purple, but that is probably misleading because they also have a gold coating. Hopefully, when someone tries these out, they can give more feedback on what they look like from all angles. Actually, I probably will buy a pair because I plan to do more kilnwork, so I can find use for them if they are not suitable for torchwork.

Finally, I have not had much luck yet researching this yet, but the manufacturer of the faceshield and glasses seems to be Oberon, if that helps anyone. I'll keep looking, but I'm not sure if or when I'll find anything.

If you are going to order them soon, and don't like them, I'll buy them.


Oberon Safety Products:

UV Protection from UVA & UVB.
Many industrial applications have the potential to emit
large quantities of UV energy. The Clear UV Protective
Series faceshields provides 100% protection* from UV
energy from 200nm to 405nm. <-------------- For clear shield only
Meets ANSI Z87.1
This protection may be extended with accessories.

These faceshields provide unique protection and comfort.
The Cobalt II Blue faceshield is used in Steel Mills to
filter the yellow Sodium Flare. The Didymium II Blue is <--------------- Still looking for the definition of Didymium II
used in Glassworking.

The Oberon Company is located in New Bedford, Massachusetts
http://www.oberonsafety.com

I'll send them an email.
I am wondering if you could provide me some information about your Didymium II safety coating.
Is “Didymium II” an industry standard or is it an Oberon Company description?
Could you direct me to a definition for Didymium II?
Could you direct me to a place where I can find out more information about Didymium II?
Are spectrum transmission charts for Didymium II available to the public, and if so, would you be able to send me a copy?

I found an archived Wet Canvas thread that discussed lampworking safety. Apparently at one time (2006) the AuraLens site had a link to one of their pages offering an opinion on the product "Didymium II", but it seems that page is no longer available.



CAUTION -- evaluation of Didymium II in a LampworkETC thread:

I found a link to a LampworkETC thread that says the Didymium II lenses by Oberon are not recommended for lampworking. Mike Aurelius posts in this thread, and mentions the page that gives an evaluation of Didymium II, but that page is no longer available. The results of this thread do not rely on the evaluation by Mike Aurelius, but from a friend of LE user Gardengirl. Gardengirl said "She tried out the glasses one night and complained that she couldn't see a darn thing while she was torching. She took them back and the store replaced them with real dyidiums so now everything is just fine and she has the proper eyewear.!" in post #10 of this thread: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7308

Last edited by De Anza Art Glass Club; 2016-01-28 at 11:50pm.
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  #19  
Old 2016-01-29, 6:28am
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WOW! THANK YOU!

Tho you raised questions I hadn't thought of, that was the kind of answer I needed! Thank you.

Yes, the manufacturer of these is Oberon. I remember the lady at baileys telling me this, but couldn't remember the name for this thread.

I think I shall wait, and go for the wale fit overs for $50 rather than waste shipping back and forth...
I hope to hear your report however!! Please keep me posted?
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Old 2016-01-29, 10:16am
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Just so anyone reading this and needing more filtration like I did knows....the piece of Schott glass Phillips pulled out of storage to make my fitovers was very old. They should still have some left if anyone has issues like I did. They solved my problem, the thread link is in my post above.
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  #21  
Old 2016-01-29, 1:14pm
De Anza Art Glass Club De Anza Art Glass Club is offline
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Oberon sent a reply this morning.

I wish we had the webpage from Mike Aurelius to find out his reasons and evidence for his opinion.

Oberon didn't exactly answer the questions. They sent a tech sheet and a brochure pdf. I'm not sure if I can include it here (copy and paste or attachment), so here are my interpretations:

Didymium-2 is an Oberon description. It was developed to reduce/eliminate sodium flare. As Mike Aurelius has pointed out, sodium flare is annoying, but not dangerous. Oberon states that it relies on the gold coating to reduce the IR and UV. In a previous thread (I don't remember when or what website) someone said that for soft glass workers, UV is not a concern because it is not emitted at the temperatures necessary for melting the higher COEs. (Not exactly what was said, which was more of a criticism for even including UV in the discussion.)

My guess is that the glasses are probably safe, but are hard to see through for detail work. The Didymium-2 does not provide the protection we need and Oberon does not claim it does, but claims that it uses the gold coating to do so.

From the brochure (transcription, because text does not want to copy and paste):
OBERON's Didymium II Fact Fit(R) Shield for glass manufacturing or glassblowing, especially when a gas (propane) powered furnace is used. The shield provides a filter which selectively blocks the yellowish light at 589 nm (nanometers) emitted by the hot sodium in the glass, without having a detrimental effect on general vision, unlike dark welder's glasses. In addition, blocked is the strong ultraviolet light emitted by the superheated furnace gases and insulation lining the furnace walls thereby sasving the individual's eyes from serious cumulative damage. The gold coating glocks 94-96% of the infrared radiant energy to keep the wearer's face cool.

From the fax copy:
The Heat Reflective Faceshield is very efficient in reflecting away UV and IR (radiant heat). Oberon vacuum deposits a layer of pure GOLD (24K) on the outer surface of the polycarbonate shield. This is not a film but a permanently bonded lalyer upon the shield. The GOLD layer is then protected with a thermally inert scratch coating. ...

...

Statistics
UV <1%
Visible 15%
IR <10%

...

Didymium Blue-2
Material: Polycarbonate
Color: Didymium Blue
Specialty coating: Gold metalized
Meets ANSI Z87.1: Yes

Group description
Oberon has developed an alternative to the didymium glass lens. The Face-Fit (tm) Didymium-2 Blue shield is molded of strong polycarbonate material. Providing similar visible light filtering characteristics as the didymium glass lens, it allow (sic) for greater visibility of the work place through its 8" X 14" window.
Filtering out the yellow glare associated with glass working operations, it allows the worker to see the reds associated with temperatures and heats. Oberon's specialty gold heat reflective layer coats the shield with additional heat (IR) and UV protection not available from standard didymium lenses.
Workers who are looking into open flames use the Didymium products. This flame is emitting IR and UV radiation. Didymium glass lenses are not designed to provide protection from this radiation. Its purpose is to filter out the yellows in the visible spectrum. Oberon believes where the potential for hazards of UV and IR exposure exist, it is important to provide the best protection available. The gold metalized layer on the didymium substrate acts to reflect and filter most of the UV and IR before it reaches the wearer.

...

For comparison, here are descriptions for the faceshields (to evaluate the gold coating itself without the didymium):

FF-025 Clear gold reflective: UV & IR protection while maximizing visible light. IR protection required in high heat application such as Steel Mills and foundries.

FF-091 Didymium II gold reflective: UV and IR protection for the Glassworker, the Didymium filters out the yellow but allows much of the reds (glass temperature) to be seen.

Last edited by De Anza Art Glass Club; 2016-01-29 at 1:20pm.
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  #22  
Old 2016-01-29, 2:57pm
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This is he face shield, does it apply to the glasses as well?

From above; "Didymium glass lenses are not designed to provide protection from this radiation. Its purpose is to filter out the yellows in the visible spectrum. ".

Does this apply to our current basic purple didys? Guess I am still confused... Sorry!

"Didymium-2 does not provide the protection we need and Oberon does not claim it does, but claims that it uses the gold coating to do so."

This is the sentence that is confusing me.... :-/

Last edited by Khaleesi Dane; 2016-01-29 at 3:00pm.
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  #23  
Old 2016-01-29, 3:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaleesi Dane View Post
This is he face shield, does it apply to the glasses as well?
Yes, the catalog from the Oberon website says that the options are available in glasses (called Image EyeWare (tm) Spectacles).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaleesi Dane View Post
From above; "Didymium glass lenses are not designed to provide protection from this radiation. Its purpose is to filter out the yellows in the visible spectrum. ".

Does this apply to our current basic purple didys? Guess I am still confused... Sorry!
Yes and no. Glasses generally referred to as didymium these days are not what they used to be. Didymiums were the original glassworker glasses designed to reduce sodium flare, but did not provide protection. What we have now are the Schott filters, ACE 202, AuraLens 92 (and the more recent AuraLens filters) which do protect from IR. Complicating this is that the current trend is toward polycarbonate filters (e.g. Wale S and SB, and recent Phillips offerings, including shields), with glass being less and less available. (Mike Aurelius states the opinion that plastic is not as durable and is prone to fading ... paraphrased, but I don't think I am misinterpreting his words.) In summary, Oberon is speaking of the didymiums as a product, while the way you are referring to them is as a generic term for lampworking safety glasses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaleesi Dane View Post
"Didymium-2 does not provide the protection we need and Oberon does not claim it does, but claims that it uses the gold coating to do so."

This is the sentence that is confusing me.... :-/
So, the old didymium was a glass formulation developed to cut sodium flare with no protection from IR. Oberon replicated this in polycarbonate, but it still has little protection from IR. (I'd say no protection, but their literature is a little confusing on this point.) Oberon recognizes the need for IR/UV protection, and claims the gold coating will do so. Didymium-2 (or didymium II) is an Oberon formulation. Schott/Phillips/ACE202/AuraLens are designed to both reduce sodium flare and protect from IR. (Yes, I've left out UV because this is just off the top of my head and I don't remember which ones claim to do what, but that probably isn't important right now.)


This doesn't exactly have anything to do with this topic, but since I have a place to put this, it might as well be here. I've found my folder of information on my computer and compared the AuraLens 92 chart with the Schott S8806A chart. The transmission peaks are almost exactly the same, but the AuraLens attenuates about 5% more. The Schott chart stops at 800 nm while the AuraLens chart goes to 1000 nm, but I don't believe that it definitively says the Schott filtering stops at 800 nm, just that no data is given. Both the Schott and AuraLens transmittance at 800 nm is 0%. The AuraLens chart labels hazardous IR as 950+nm, at which the transmittance is about 73% and increases from there. My opinion is that the Schott chart was intended to emhasize filtering characteristics in the visible region, whereas the AuraLens chart was intended to emphasize attenuation characteristics in the IR and UV regions (i.e., difference in intended audiences). Also based on this, the Oberon claim for IR attenuation actually looks very good.

Last edited by De Anza Art Glass Club; 2016-01-29 at 4:24pm.
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Old 2016-01-29, 8:47pm
De Anza Art Glass Club De Anza Art Glass Club is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
You are making me think. I have a shield, and while I love not having to wear two pair of glasses, or glasses and clipons, the shield is kind of dark. I have been thinking about looking for a lighter one, but now I wonder if I won't like it.

I haven't actually found a lighter one the same size yet, but I have been scouting a little for one.
Do you have a glass shield or a plastic shield? The shields used to be glass until two or three years ago (or maybe that is four or five years ago), and now they are plastic. I have glass and plastic and will try to do some sort of comparison.

If it is glass you need, I've been looking for a while, and I may have found a source today. Usually, the vendors have them as special order items and when they go to order them, find out they are not available. Last I heard, Arrow Springs may have a sheet or two in the smaller size (4.5" x 5.0"), but you have to contact them. If it is plastic you need, my usual source is Phillips, but there is an eBay seller who shows up occasionally and will take a "Best Offer". The plastic sheets are listed at exactly 1/2 the price of the glass sheets.

I'm on my way out of town, so can't work with the sheets anymore, but some pictures are attached. The 6" x 6" square is plastic and the broken piece is glass. First picture is flat against a white background. Second two are held up to a ceiling light. Last two are pieces held away from the white background.
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Last edited by De Anza Art Glass Club; 2016-01-29 at 9:18pm.
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  #25  
Old 2016-01-29, 9:20pm
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Wow, ok, so now I am in a state of TMI ( too much information ). I really really appreciate all the research you have gone thru here, and the time it has taken to analyze and disseminate that information. Admittedly most of it is beyond my understanding at this time.
I tried to pm you, as i did not want to admit this here in public... However, it failed.

All I really need now, is a yes/no to the original post, please? Are the 'glasses' in the link in the original post safe for daily use with 104 glass Work?
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Old 2016-01-29, 9:48pm
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I don't think they will work well for you but that is an opinion that might change if I had access to the them to test myself.

As for not wanting to admit the mass of information is beyond your current understanding please remember that there will be others reading this in 5 or 6 years that will learn from the questions you are asking now.

We all learned something from someone by asking questions
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Old 2016-01-29, 9:57pm
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Wow, ok, so now I am in a state of TMI ( too much information ). I really really appreciate all the research you have gone thru here, and the time it has taken to analyze and disseminate that information. Admittedly most of it is beyond my understanding at this time.
I tried to pm you, as i did not want to admit this here in public... However, it failed.

All I really need now, is a yes/no to the original post, please? Are the 'glasses' in the link in the original post safe for daily use with 104 glass Work?
I really wish you hadn't phrased it like that.

I will say NO, I wouldn't take the chance

but not because they are not "safe" if all the information posted is true,
but because I think they would be too dark and not allow you to see details well, so the chance I'm referring to is the expense.

Sorry, I wish it was a yes/no, because I really would have said "yes" to the safety part only.

I'll try and fix the PM thing. I thought I changed that.

Sorry about the information overload, but I didn't want to be the only one providing information on a safety issue, and if other people knew where I was coming from, that would be a starting point for any supportive or contradictory argument.

Last edited by De Anza Art Glass Club; 2016-01-29 at 10:22pm.
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  #28  
Old 2016-01-30, 8:11am
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cgbeads cgbeads is offline
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.... She had finally heard back from the manufacturer, and they said that yes these would block soda flare and could be used with glass work...
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Originally Posted by Khaleesi Dane View Post
Thank you, I have actually read that thread before. I can't afford the glasses they are talking about, .....
I was watching a boro podcast the other day. The one guy was telling about his XXX brand (I won't say the name cause I'm not positive which one it was, but it was not Mike Aurelius) they were touted as specifically for boro by the manufacturer. After 3 years he is having eye and headache issues and found out for years people have been trying to get the manufacturer to pull the glasses (which I think they finally did, but won't own up to any issues).

I suggest you save your couch change, pick up cans, what ever you can, for a pair from a trusted company like Mike Aurelius. My son has failing eyes, not glass related, but none the less I have been his coiffure for 4 years now so I understand how important your eyes are.

-Donna
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Old 2016-01-30, 10:40am
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Thank you, all. I greatly appreciate it!

On a different note, Donna, I love ha, and I adore your rollers, however I think you migh want to proof read your post? ( giggle). Pretty sure you didn't mean to say you were your sons coiffure? Chauffeur? Perhaps?
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Old 2016-01-30, 5:33pm
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Thank you, all. I greatly appreciate it!

On a different note, Donna, I love ha, and I adore your rollers, however I think you migh want to proof read your post? ( giggle). Pretty sure you didn't mean to say you were your sons coiffure? Chauffeur? Perhaps?
LOL, I had a few letters right, I get credit for that.
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