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  #1  
Old 2009-12-21, 12:37am
rocknathinwire rocknathinwire is offline
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Default welders torch

Hi everyone!

Im new to this site and fairly new to the art of lampworking.
My question is for all you seasoned lampworkers. My husband insists that I can use a "Victor, welders torch tip" if used with propane and oxygen.
Is this possible? What kind of trouble could using this torch cause?
any advice will be helpful.
Thanks
Steph
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Old 2009-12-21, 12:56am
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yes you can...i taught myself sculpting glass..clear boro, 1/2" and 5/8", using a victor with a # 2 cutting tip....works beautifully , i used mine for many years before i discovered soft glass..and getting my first minor..which i was able to use for both soft and hard glass i did work soft glass in the victor, too .., with different pressure settings...interesting effects...i still have a victor and another brand welding torch i use for multiple setups when am teaching or for creative playtime sessions
I get them , with regulators, hoses and torches at th Flea market and yard sales for $
40.00 TO $75.00 regularly...
good luck, go for it, and you can always get a bigger torch when you realize you are obsessed with coaxing enduring and startling beauty from the glass rods
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Old 2009-12-21, 1:10am
rocknathinwire rocknathinwire is offline
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Thanks so much for the reply Nivee. You sound like you have a lot of experience and great knowledge. I have been using the torch but I just wasn't sure what kind of affects it would have on the glass. And what do you mean about coaxing?
Thanks again
Steph
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Old 2009-12-21, 2:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nivedita View Post
yes you can...i taught myself sculpting glass..clear boro, 1/2" and 5/8", using a victor with a # 2 cutting tip....works beautifully , i used mine for many years before i discovered soft glass..and getting my first minor..which i was able to use for both soft and hard glass i did work soft glass in the victor, too .., with different pressure settings...interesting effects...i still have a victor and another brand welding torch i use for multiple setups when am teaching or for creative playtime sessions
I get them , with regulators, hoses and torches at th Flea market and yard sales for $
40.00 TO $75.00 regularly...
good luck, go for it, and you can always get a bigger torch when you realize you are obsessed with coaxing enduring and startling beauty from the glass rods

Yeah.. but remember.. it will NOT work very well (if at all) with a welding torch.
A dedicated cutting torch and a welding torch with cutting tips aren't exactly the same thing. Close enough when it comes to metal working but, glass? Not so much.
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Old 2009-12-21, 8:19am
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When I bought my torch to use propane and oxygen I picked up a torch set. When I told the clerk what I was doing he said" I will have to modify the torch for propane." He made some changes and it works great. I use different tips. Most of my work is with silver but it works well with glass
Darrell
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  #6  
Old 2009-12-21, 9:27am
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Basically a welding torch is a premix, and it will work ok for borosilicate glass... Boro is not as sensitive to flame chemistry as soft glass... Premix torches are highly oxidizing torches....

Basically your DH is correct but there is a lot of subtleties about flame chemistry that makes welding torch not as practical as a "glass" torch...

Soft glass, soda lime (coe 104) really likes the smoother gentler flame of a surface mix torch..... With a surface mix torch it is a lot easier to adjust flame chemistry ...

IF you are working soft glass and are just not satisfied with the colors using a welding torch, try switching to a surface mix torch (go to some studio and try one) to see if a surface mix torch works better for you.....

There is a reason why all the new "glass" torches on market are surface mix.... And there is a reason why most artist gravitate towards them....



Dale
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Last edited by Dale M.; 2009-12-21 at 9:29am.
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  #7  
Old 2009-12-21, 10:36am
rocknathinwire rocknathinwire is offline
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Hi Dale, Thanks for your response! Sounds like you know the specifics of the welding torch and the glass torch. I have had a little discoloration in the soft glass and I had a really bubbly surface on another bead. I wasn't sure if it was the torch or the reaction in the color rods I was using. I really love this site, its great when novices like me can learn so much from those who have years of experience!
Thanks so much for ALL of your responses!
Steph
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  #8  
Old 2009-12-21, 7:52pm
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You need to try and get a more oxidizing flame (oxygen rich) to help prevent discoloration.... And a bubbling of glass is usually because you are getting glass to hot... Either make flame smaller or move further out in flame where it is a bit cooler....

Dale
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  #9  
Old 2009-12-21, 9:57pm
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I use a national 3a torch to do boro. Its premix and works great. I would say skip the soft glass and go straight to boro because it is so much more versatile. You don't need a kiln at first, it doesn't crack if you take it out of the flame for more than ten seconds... The list goes on and on.

I would not say that it is easier to adjust flame chemistry on a surface mix. If you have ever used an acetylene welding torch, you can see the 2 cones when it is reducing, see the flame shrink when it is oxidizing. I thought it was hard to adjust my OP torch before I started looking for the 2 cones and observing the sound, size, and color. The 2 cones are hard to see with oxy propane, but they are there. If you have a reducing flame and add oxygen, the inner cone will shrink steadily then it will "jump" to a shorter length. This is a neutral flame. Once you know what everything means, I think adjusting a premix torch is very easy.

Surface mix torches are not intuitive to adjust because all you have to go by is the length of the cones and the color of the flame.

It will be alot more expensive to get a new torch and a kiln than to get some boro. I have used both types of glass and much prefer boro to soft. Even though the color costs alot more than soft, the clear is much cheaper. Most of your sculptural work is going to be clear. If you want to do color sculpture, there is always powder or chinese colors for the same price as soft glass.

What ever you choose, have fun with your new hobby.
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  #10  
Old 2009-12-22, 12:23am
rocknathinwire rocknathinwire is offline
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Hey Meeker,

Thank you for all your advice. I think I can come up with a neutral flame. My husband coached me on what to look for. Now all I need is control! I haven't tried Boro, It kind of intimidated me. And I just ordered a kiln today. You don't have to anneal boro? Or is flame annealing enough?

I sure appreciate all your great advice, I think I will stick with his torch for a while, until I can afford an actual "glass" torch.

So much to learn, so little knowledge.
Thank God for people like you!

Thanks again
Steph
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  #11  
Old 2009-12-22, 11:56am
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Don't be intimidated! Boro is called hard glass because it is hard to break, not hard to work. People say boro is hard because the are used to soft glass and just don't get it hot enough or wait too long to shape it.

You have to anneal boro once it gets over a certain thickness or if you are going to sell it. If you have a kiln, you should anneal it. Its not like soft glass that will break if you put it in hot/cold water.

You still need to use vermiculite or a fiber blanket.

I have never had boro rod under 8mm shock on me when I put them in the flame.

You need to have a special propane/LP tip for your torch, the hole is countersunk so the flame doesn't blow off the face of the torch. Get a variety of sizes and play around with each. You can use one of pendants, one for earrings, on for lace work.

Edit: almost forgot, theres no soft glass tubing!

I still don't know what you to do. If you have already ordered a lot of soft glass, go with a surface mix. Other wise, look for a small LP rosebud tip. That can get you up to 1" marbles or wine glasses.
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Old 2010-01-01, 2:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCB23 View Post
Yeah.. but remember.. it will NOT work very well (if at all) with a welding torch.
A dedicated cutting torch and a welding torch with cutting tips aren't exactly the same thing. Close enough when it comes to metal working but, glass? Not so much.
my first 10 years of sculpting with boro was entirely on a victor with a # 2 cutting tip.. propane and oxygen....i was doing tiny earring size sculpture pieces as well as hefty , elaborate sculptural pieces with the same torch...i still have the same torch, and as i am setting up my studio at my new home, it will be up there with my red max, my mini cc and my minor burner...
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Old 2010-01-01, 2:36pm
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Default working glass on a Victor

http://www.glassartists.org/Gal1711_...llery_Page.asp
All of these pieces except for the cats, were created in my welding torch.. an old Victor with a # 2 cutting tip.....not so hard
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Old 2010-01-01, 3:51pm
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Regardless.. once it is converted to use propane it is no longer able to be used as a welding torch.
(just sayin')
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  #15  
Old 2010-01-01, 5:48pm
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Not true. Just change the tip and hose, maybe some gaskets.
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Old 2010-01-01, 9:03pm
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The regulators, tips and everything but hoses are identical when uses with propane instead of acetylene.... ONLY thing is if you have "R" rated hoses (acetylene only) the propane will cause hose (R rated) to prematurely disintegrate, if you have" "T" rated hose its good for ALL fuel gases.....

Dale
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Old 2010-01-01, 9:44pm
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Tips for propane are slightly countersunk to keep the flame from blowing off. Some gaskets inside the torch are similar to R grade hose and must be replaced after using propane. Ask your welding supply company.
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Old 2010-01-02, 5:52am
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You have missed the point. Never said it wouldn't make a d*mned fine CUTTING torch... however.... once you've switched it over to another gas other than acetylene, it will no longer weld steel. Period. Thus it can no longer be considered a "welding torch".
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Old 2010-01-02, 8:35am
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You have missed the point. Never said it wouldn't make a d*mned fine CUTTING torch... however.... once you've switched it over to another gas other than acetylene, it will no longer weld steel. Period. Thus it can no longer be considered a "welding torch".
Documentation please!

Not anywhere in any of my welding manuals does it say once you have used propane in welding torch setup you can not go back to acetylene......

Dale
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Old 2010-01-02, 1:23pm
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Documentation please!

Not anywhere in any of my welding manuals does it say once you have used propane in welding torch setup you can not go back to acetylene......

Dale
Cutting torch? Yes. Welding torch? No.

Want proof? Check out the links list at *www.stagesmith.com* or ask ernie@stagesmith.com.
Actually, check out the links list at Stagesmith anyways, just for kicks. The man's site is one of the two best links list for materials, supplies and tools on the www.

Ernie Leimkuhler (metal working uber geek) is my friend, was my boss and is now the Topside Welding Instructor at the Diver's Institute of Technology here in Seattle.
If Ernie says differently I will lay down the torch (so to speak ;}

Rachel the firekat
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Old 2010-01-02, 1:32pm
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Hey Rachel the link doesnt work due to the asterisk... http://www.stagesmith.com/Metal-links.html
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Old 2010-01-02, 1:38pm
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(oops)
Thanks David
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Old 2010-01-02, 1:38pm
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Been reading that site for years.... Care to point to any specific comments/links..... I haven't got the time try to follow the hundreds of links.....

Dale
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Old 2010-01-02, 1:40pm
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Congratulations.. it's a great site.
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