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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #1  
Old 2005-11-20, 8:47pm
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evenia evenia is offline
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Default Starting w/ Boro

I got my Northstar large sample pack and a barracuda yesterday. Gonna hook it up later this week. Is there any good books that I can get that give me the basics of working with boro? I got a recipe book but I would really just like the basic principles. For example how long does boro need to be kilned for and at what temps. I know different colors strikes at different temps in the kiln. But after it strikes, how long do you leave it in and at what temp? Anyway any help would be great.

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 2005-11-21, 5:16am
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Hi, Doug Remschneiders DVD is helpful, and his recipe book. And I had a bead making class with Doug, very helpful. I have Lori Robbins book also.

Doesn't seem like a whole lot of info out there otherwise. .

I found keeping notes does help. I garage everthing at 975. Then when done making stuff, I'll bring the kiln up to say 1050/1100 to strike. Keeping the kiln at this temp varies too depending what colors you use, and what you are going for. Hold this temps any where from an hour to 2. Then start the annealing process.

It will be interesting to read other responses you get here.

Hoping to have a class with Mr. Smiley someday soon too.

Ellen
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  #3  
Old 2005-11-21, 5:19am
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I garage at 1065. I use mostly amber purples. After the last piece goes in, I hold for about an hour or so to give that piece time to strike... I really don't keep track. Then I run the annealing schedule. You are going to have to play around and find what works best for you in your kiln. If you ever have any specific questions, you have my number. Just give me a jingle.
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Old 2005-11-21, 7:34am
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I anneal different colors at different temps. One of my favorites is GA Triple Passion (similar to Double Amber Purple). I put it into the kiln at 1100 for an hour, then ramp it down. I do flame strike it first, however.

But, occasionally I'll re-anneal a piece to bring the color out. When the color is down inside a lot of clear, that helps. I had a piece using Triple Passion that I made and was having a hard time getting the color to come out. I tried striking it a few times, but it didn't work. So, I put it in the kiln and let it cool. The next day, I ramped it up to 1200 and held it there for an hour. The color came out nice and purple.
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  #5  
Old 2005-11-21, 9:13am
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Thanks guys, I appreciate the help.
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  #6  
Old 2005-11-21, 9:19am
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I threw in a clear rod of Amber Purple to demonstrate how the kiln temp changes from front to back on a front loading kiln. I'll snap pics later when it cools.
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  #7  
Old 2005-11-21, 10:00am
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Here is that picture I promised. It's not going to have the purple hue, because it wasn't worked in the flame, but you can see how the color is a gradual change. Take this into consideration when you are kiln striking color. You can learn to use it to your advantage, because some colors will muddy up or go livery if you strike too hot or too long.

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  #8  
Old 2005-11-21, 4:01pm
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this is so cool. thanks brent, you rock!
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  #9  
Old 2005-11-21, 6:56pm
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Wow Brent, I hope my kiln isn't that uneven!! I'll try that trick with the rod and see.
About books: Contemporary Lampworking: A Practical Guide to Shaping Glass in the Flame by Bandhu Scott Dunham and Advanced flameworking
by Milon Townsend will give you a lot of techniques to play with. Townsend's book has a lot of color info. These may seem expensive, but they are worth it, especially Dunhams two vol set.
Also, I garage at 975 and anneal at 1050, unless I have amber-purple in there then I anneal/strike at 1100 for 2 hrs instead of 1/2 hr. I have both an analog (needle scale) pyrometer and a high precision Fluke pyrometer on my bead kiln, but it is controlled by a digital programable system.

-Don-
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Last edited by fyrsmith; 2005-11-21 at 7:02pm.
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  #10  
Old 2005-11-21, 7:06pm
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Thanks for the picture Brent.

Don, thanks for the reference info. Ellen
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  #11  
Old 2005-11-23, 6:15am
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This is an AIM front loading kiln that gives this result. If you have a top loading kiln with elements all around, you are heating more even. There is still a difference from center to outer edge, but probably not as drastic. Any time you have an uneven distribution of elements, it's good to check your hot spots and know your kiln. It's really a cool thing to have if you use it to your advantage. Strike rubies and such up front and amber purples in the back... they're all happy campers that way.
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  #12  
Old 2005-11-23, 7:04am
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My original intention was to head here and ask for help on boro and here it is! After a month or so of trying, I finally figured out how to get some of the colors to pop in the flame. SO HAPPY I put them into the kiln for annealing and what do my eyes spy this morning exiting the kiln but a pile of MUD beads! This boro stuff is TOUCHY! I will try the re-annealing idea tomorrow and maybe I can bring the colors back? (BTW, annealed at 1100 for hours........won't do that again)

Sheesh, all this trouble for 6 lousey beads? IF I EVER FIGURE IT OUT I AM GOING TO HAVE A DRINK...or two...

Very Frustrated,
Ms. Booger
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  #13  
Old 2005-11-23, 8:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms. Booger
My original intention was to head here and ask for help on boro and here it is! After a month or so of trying, I finally figured out how to get some of the colors to pop in the flame. SO HAPPY I put them into the kiln for annealing and what do my eyes spy this morning exiting the kiln but a pile of MUD beads! This boro stuff is TOUCHY! I will try the re-annealing idea tomorrow and maybe I can bring the colors back? (BTW, annealed at 1100 for hours........won't do that again)

Sheesh, all this trouble for 6 lousey beads? IF I EVER FIGURE IT OUT I AM GOING TO HAVE A DRINK...or two...

Very Frustrated,
Ms. Booger

Sorry about the frustration ! I'm pretty sure putting them back into the annealer will not help. For bead making with boro, Doug Remschneiders DVD is very helpful. Boro does not like being re heated over and over at the torch. For instance GA Carmel luster, a couple of wraps on the mandrel of it, and encase in clear. Melt up/shape up, and bring the bead almost to clear. Hold it under the table to watch for the glow to be gone, and then in the back flame, strike the color. You can't take it in and out of the flame, that's what makes it muddy.

Dougs DVD is very good, and I do like his color recipe book.

www.remschneiderglass.com
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  #14  
Old 2005-11-24, 9:09am
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Hi, I should be getting dinner ready ! Happy Thanksgiving !

I was thinking I forgot to mention something else that was helpful.
Glass Alchemy has a Self Paced Project Guide, Instruction Sample Kit, $15 www.glassalchemyarts.com It's very useful.

Ask for the Users Manual also, which I think is free.

Ellen
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  #15  
Old 2005-11-24, 9:52am
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Yeah, the muddy look you are getting is phase separation. The crystal growth happens fastest around 1200. If you leave it there too long, it's bad... very ugly dull muddy colors. You can work boro for a long time... just make sure it's way above 1200 or well below if it's to remain that temp for any length of time. This includes flame time and kiln time. It is tricky at first, but you'll get it. Putting those beads back in the kiln won't do squat. Sorry. Just start new and have fun! Turn your kiln down to 1050 if you're flame striking the beads. The colors may deepen, but shouldn't turn muddy.
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  #16  
Old 2005-11-29, 3:26pm
CarolinaDreamDesigns CarolinaDreamDesigns is offline
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OK with my soft glass, I've been garaging at 968 while I work - holding at that temperature for an hour at the end and then ramping down at 100 degrees per hour to 100 degrees then turn off. I leave it all day while I work sometimes - maybe even 12 hours?

I was planning to try flame striking my boro and then garaging at 1050 for however long I work - then basically do the hold and drop ramp the same way. Will that temperature muddy up my colors - presuming I get any - if they sit all day before starting the ramp down? What schedule should I be using? Can you start with boro - anneal at those temps and then bring down to soft glass and anneal all together before ramping down?

Geez - I thought I had my head straight on this!

Martha
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  #17  
Old 2005-12-03, 9:00am
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Martha not all colors are sensitive to the kiln striking time. Rubies and the APs are sensitive.

I hold my beads at 1000 and then ramp up. I think my kiln is set at 1075 now... but it changes when I do different colors.
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