What torch to buy?

[LDowdle]

...one week in and I am not happy with my equipment. currently learning and using mapp and a hh. Way to expensive.... on my 3rd Canister already and frustrated. I know this is something I will enjoy but need the right equipment from the get go. I just want something that will work and see me through a couple/many years using soft glass.

Would you be willing to share your knowledge and experiences related to what torch setup I can save up for.

Is a Carlisle mini a worth while torch? or any other suggestions are welcome. I live in NZ and would have to buy from the states. My Sister lives there so I can ship it to her. Any websites you can recommend would be appreciated.

and what exactly do i need to get with the torch i buy. I am confused about oxygen concentrators or oxygen tanks ... which gives a better outcome $$ wise and bead clarity wise.

My questions sound so "newbie" which I will probably giggle about in a few months after I am happily learning to make a bead...

You are all so experienced, and I feel more comfortable asking you than the retailer up the road.

Thank you thank you thank you in advance

x Lorraine

[gubnavnania]

You can try to use HH with propane in BBQ tank. Cheaper that way.

I never try Mini CC. I'm using Nortel Minor atm with oxygen concentrator.
Oxygen tank is hotter than oxycon but in long run it cost more, unless you are planning to use a lot boro.

[lunamoonshadow]

If you're not ready to upgrade quite yet, I highly recommend the BBQ tank method too--a BBQ tank is easily refilled, much less expensive, & lasts soooo much longer! Tank pressure is better too . It's what many of the long-time hothead users use ...(those who just love the torch, those who can't upgrade due to finances, those who live in apartments where it's not practical to upgrade, or who torch outside in driveways, etc....)
~luna
(who assumes you've already got the important stuff like proper ventilation, eye protection, etc, right?)

[Carolyn M]

I am testing the Mega Minor right now and I love it! I have a Minor as well which I also really like, the advantage to the Mega is you can get into boro if you use tanked oxy or have two concentrators.

[PaulaD]

you can go to the torch section and read a lot more about torches too..

Paula

[LDowdle]

Thank you everyone. I have a HH that came with the mapp canisters, which is not going to work on the BBQ bottle.

This week i will go out and get the original HH, the hose and adapters... and try again .

And be back with new questions i am sure...

xx L

[mandyjw]

I love my hothead! I use bulk propane which I get for a good price so running my torch is very inexpensive. Unless you want to make big honking beads or melt boro a hothead works great. It just depends on what you see yourself doing in the future. It is easier to learn on one torch and stick with it, so if you know you are going to upgrade you might as well do it soon. Good luck and have fun!

[sammyjo]

If you want to get the bulk propane with your HH, you need to buy adaptors. You could ask Lily from www.hotbeadbox.com - she's located in Melbourne, so shipping fees wouldn't be as bad as from the US. She has the fittings that are compliant with Australian gas standards, but on her website they are sold with the hothead torch. Lily is really helpful and nice, I can't recommend her enough - she was my first teacher and really knows her stuff.

If you prefer to talk to someone in NZ, check out http://www.annierose.com/ - located in Whangarei, not too far from you. I didn't see any HH's on the webiste, but if you decide to get another torch they sell mini CC's and have a workshop, so you might be able to try the torch out first before buying. I haven't dealt with these guys, just found them when I was initially looking for a teacher.

[ewdb]

i just use regulat 1lb (stubby green camping style) propane tanks with my hothead. i torch on the second floor so a bulk tank is not an option for me.

[LDowdle]

[quote=sammyjo;1791109]If you want to get the bulk propane with your HH, you need to buy adaptors. You could ask Lily from www.hotbeadbox.com - she's located in Melbourne, so shipping fees wouldn't be as bad as from the US. She has the fittings that are compliant with Australian gas standards, but on her website they are sold with the hothead torch. Lily is really helpful and nice, I can't recommend her enough - she was my first teacher and really knows her stuff.

Thank you for this.

I was actually wondering where I would start you are a gem thanks!! I will inquire with Lily today.

[sammyjo]

You're welcome - i know how you feel, I'm setting up my studio as well

[DaBatt]

Hello Lorraine You should have emailed me - lol.
To upgrade your Hot Head to use bulk fuel (your BBQ cylinder) - all you need to do is go to a gas repair shop. Any good one will sell the hose you need with the bit that fits into the Hot Head already on it for around $35.00 - with the other end ready just to screw into you 9kg (or whatever) cylinder.

Personally - I think you are better off sticking with the Hot Head for a while, getting your head around techniques & processes. I honestly still think that some of the best shaped beads I ever made were on my Hot Head (& some of the best reactions can still be produced with it when using glasses like Dark Silver Plum)

For a dual fuel torch, apart from the torch & a GOOD regulator, everything else you need can be got here in NZ.

Due to the fact that it ends up costing around $3.00 per bead to use tanked oxygen here (depending on how quickly you work) - you may well want to avoid using tanked, if you upgrade & invest in an Oxygen concentrator instead.

[DaBatt]

I've just gone through all my receipts & paperwork (I know I have kept everything ....somewhere) to see if I could find the exact name for the hose & the part number that the gas fitters/repairers etc call it.
I know I had it on an Invoice - but can't seem to find that particular one.

What you need is a hose that has a POL Adaptor on one end & a primus adaptor on the other end. Take the Hot Head itself in with you & you can't go wrong.

[LDowdle]

Hey Gorgeous Lady.... so good to hear from you. Did you see the latest.. now sold luscious necklace I made from your bead.... it was a hit and didn't last long. I did not realize you were on etsy. I love "Roshan" I still want your website details listed on my websites favorite links page.. You were my inspiration to give this lamp working a go by the way. You have just made my day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS SO GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU!

Here is the flickr link to view your bead in my creation
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23277402@N05/2413148842/

Here is the flickr link for a close up shot
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23277402@N05/2413149080/

Hope you can view it.

I will mail you soon ...I promise... want to ask you more about a specific torch.

xxx Lorraine

[DaBatt]

OMG!!!!! Never has one of my beads looked so good....no make that great!
I am stoked & grinning like an idiot

Whichever way you go (whether you stay with the HH for a while or not) - you'll be fine.
Just don't give up My inbox is always open -lol!
I rarely visit this part of the forum - & it was so funny because I saw a poat started by Ldowdle & thought "that can only be Lorraine!' & it was!

I have a Mini cc now - but I'll never dismiss my Hot Head.

I'll upload a photo in a minute & show you why

[DaBatt]

One set of these was created on a Hot Head - the other was the result of trying to recreate the reaction on a Dual Fuel torch - believe it or not exactly the same glasses were used in the same way on both - lol

[LDowdle]

Oh WOWWEEEEEEEEEEe you are the bomb!!! I love your style Deb... Still feel the same way I did the day I left you a message on TM. I will definitely mail you in the week when I get a chance.

My Hubby is in Wellington until Sat Morning. So my quiet time in the studio is so limited now as the day is used for classes and then it is time to collect kids... I have brought some client orders in, so I will go and do some work now, I am too chicken to go outside in the dark hee hee

Have a wonderful night... I will be in touch this week... you are still my favourite.... I told you..... There is an energy in your beads that is just so soulful....

sleep well and thank you for sharing.....
xxxx Lorraine

[DaBatt]

I'll look foward to hearing from you & any questions at all are more than welcome.
Information is free & hey it's not worth running all around the world for the things when you don't have to.

If you get stuck for annealing - my kiln is at your disposal

All of your jewellery is beautiful - you are so talented!!!!

[Emily]

Good to see that you're getting lots of helpful advice!

To answer your original question, yes, the mini CC is a fine torch. If you decide to go with an oxygen concentrator, the mini CC will run on one 5 LPM medical concentrator and will run even better (and hotter) on two. You can buy one concentrator to start and add a second one later -- you just need tubing that has a Y-connector to fasten the two together.

The Nortel Minor, GTT Bobcat, and Carlisle mini CC are all good torches. I haven't used a Bethlehem Piranha, but there are people here who like theirs. (I used a Bethlehem Bead Burner, the precursor to the Piranha, for a few years and liked it.) I'm using a GTT Lynx now, which is a slightly larger torch and really needs two concentrators at least. It's a great torch, too.

[jaci]

Originally Posted by LDowdle

Thank you everyone. I have a HH that came with the mapp canisters, which is not going to work on the BBQ bottle.

This week i will go out and get the original HH, the hose and adapters... and try again .

And be back with new questions i am sure...

xx L

The torch that came with the mapp canister in the hardware store is not a HotHead torch. It is a P.O.S. torch, no wonder you are frustrated. Everything I have ever made is from a HH torch, and bulk fuel mix, either MAPP or Propylene which is now cheaper than mapp and better quality. Make sure that when you upgrade you bleed your lines. This will prevent most gunk from building up in your hose line is you go bulk. Stop in to your local welding supply for questions about fuel and hoses. They can help you with everything but the torch. (my hose cost me like $12 from the welding shop.
I have made everything from vessels to sculpted work to stringer detail to silver striking beads on my HH and LOVE it. Gelly is another great artist who works only on a HH. just to get an idea of what you can really do with this little torch::::

[DaBatt]

Jaci - in NZ we are basically limited to using either MAPP in the small cannisters or Propane as a bulk fuel.
Our propane isn't as pure as it used to be (fillers are used & it varies depending on the time of year - would you believe) so therefore doesn't burn as hot as Mapp & depending on where it's sourced from sometimes not as clean.

The hose I used to connect my Hot Head to the bulk tank is of a completely different type to that which is used to connect a dual fuel torch to tanks (& more than 3 times the price - lol), so at the cost of around $16.00 for 3 meters of the correct grade dual propane oxygen hoses there is probably no reason to reuse the original one

[jaci]

I think If you talked with a welding/gas supplier they could get you any number of brazen fuels that would work great!
I had originally gone in looking for bulk MAPP when my old supplier went out of business. They recommended a number of options that would work efficiently for my needs.
Propylene was agreed as the best choice.
I use ABCO. http://www.abcodelivers.com/
I realize this is far away from you but their must be something like it around you. These guys supply hospitals and pharmaceuticals and factories and residential.

[Kym]

Propylene and Propane are both products of the oil industry and are split out independently from the oil. Propylene is mainly used here to make plastic polypropylene at Geelong and isn't common to find unlike propane which is used for barbeques nearly everywhere and is available practically everywhere. I think to buy propylene you would have to visit Liquide aire or one of those similar gas companies but I am not sure as I have never seen it for sale. Then again I live in the subtropics, maybe it is more common where heating a home is an issue. The propane I buy, (from the same place everytime) is clean and I have never had an issue with it.

Lorraine, I recommend Lily too or Ozziebuddy in Brisbane for a HH etc. I started on a minor but lots of people here have MiniCC's and they seem really good too. I have never used a HH and find them a bit frightening! A friend uses a HH and she chills her gas in the fridge before using it and says it makes a huge difference when using some colours. I have a O2 generator now and a Lynx, and recommend highly that you consider a concentrater or generator when upgrading to a dual fuel torch, the savings over buying tanked O2 is enormous. It also frees you up creatively as you know it isn't costing you a fortune if you want to experiment etc.



Cheers
Kym

[DaBatt]

It's much the same here Kym.
With 'LPG' products there are various combinations that consitute 'propane'. Propane is great for colder climates (it has a lower boiling point) & Butane for Hot climates because of it's higher boiling point.
Apparently in both NZ & Australia it is a mixture - because we are considered to be a moderate climate. The mixture proportion varies, however one thing is certain they all have a certain ammount of fillers in them - they have to to provide the 'odour' which is required by law.

In NZ our reserves of gas are running low, & during the summer months we use gas produced on shore - but in the winter it is imported from Australia.
Sadly the 'on shore' propane is about 50-60 percent propane & the rest is butane & fillers.
During the winter the gas imported from Australia can be as high as 80% propane/butane mix.
Effectively we get a better gas for torching in the winter.

Anything we buy from a gas station or smaller supplier is a mix. I have been told we are able to get pure propane from BOC, although when I spoke to them directly about it I was advised the propane I got anywhere else would be the same mix as I got there. I never worked that one out.

It took me over 3 months questioning different suppliers & gas specialists to find all of this out. It was kind of a 'what they don't tell you' thing, until I spoke to a gas technician, with many years experience.
The same technician also mentioned that when servicing tanks that had consistantly been filled by a certain rather large petroleum company - they had noticed that there was always a white residue around the inlet, which he associated to the particular fillers they used.

The clean versus not so clean propane (or should that be the propane purity level) isn't even noticeable on a dual fuel torch - but it sure is on a Hot Head.

[Kym]

Deb,
Maybe that explains my friends issue, that she gets different results with her HH depending on when she gets a propane refill. She says an early morning fill is better than an afternoon refill. Perhaps that is the fillers changing place in the company tank depending on the ambient temp outside.
Looks like you need a number of gas bottles so you can fill up in winter for the summer drought of good gas!

Cheers
Kym

[DaBatt]

Originally Posted by Kym

Looks like you need a number of gas bottles so you can fill up in winter for the summer drought of good gas!

Cheers
Kym

Absolutely Kym
That's exactly what the tech told me to do - basically buy another tank & stockpile in the winter.

I totally agree with you on the time of day with fills making a difference & suspect there would be a variety of reason as to why. I'm sure the lower their big tanks get the more fillers would be moving about in them.

Has you friend tried half filling her bottle (yep - a pain).
I know I always had issues when my 9kg was really full - but when it got down to half & under I could almost get a decent clear. I was advised by another lampworker using a Hot Head that she had worked out what colours could be used when the tank was full & what to avoid - ummmm, I'm a bit too impulsive for that
In the end I bought a regulator & resolved that once & for all.

It gets a bit technical - but in the small tanks even though the pressure 'should' stay the same no matter how full or empty the tank is (& be in relation to the ambient surrounding air temp) it doesn't.

I have to admit all the numbers etc baffled me at first ( I wish I could remember the PSI variances the guy quoted me between a full & an empty tank) - but Mandyjw here had a great thread on it - in the end it was my lifesaver. It might help your friend out in some small way though ...well until you talk her into a dual fuel torch

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=55270