Lampwork Etc.
 
Mountain Glass Arts

LE Live Chat

Enter Live Chat

No users in chat


Frantz Art Glass & Supply

Beads of Courage


 
  #1  
Old 2020-07-28, 11:56am
BurningScentsations's Avatar
BurningScentsations BurningScentsations is offline
Seeker of Beauty
 
Join Date: Aug 29, 2005
Location: Roselle, IL
Posts: 196
Default Running torch on natural gas question

In order to get around propane tanks being lugged to and from my basement, we have natural gas lines down there and the torch I'm looking at says it will run just fine on that.

So, now to the questions:
  1. What kind of connector do I need on the gas line?
  2. Do I need any regulator on the gas line?
  3. Do I just get a plumber to install it?
  4. For surface mix torch, do I really not need a flashback arrester?

Thank you all in advance for your help!
__________________
Lloyd
---------------------------------------------
BlueBlazesStudio
AKA BurningScentsations

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2020-07-30, 2:39am
Speedslug's Avatar
Speedslug Speedslug is offline
Phill
 
Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Winnebago, MN
Posts: 2,489
Default

Hi Lloyd.

House hold NG will be at something like 1/4 psi pressures so any kind of regulator is probably not going to able to work with it that low.

I don't use one.

I fitted "black pipe" connectors from one area at my hardware store to a hose nipple from the compressed air fitting area at the same store.
Then I got a 6 or 10 foot section of Bar B Que hose with fitting on both ends and cut one end off, stuck it on the hose nipple ( check the inner diameter of the hose before you buy the nipple){ask me how I know that}, and snugged it up with a hose clamp {belt and suspenders kind of guy, I am}.

Remember that NG has something like one fifth of the BTUs that propane has so working big or working boro is going to be an exercise in patience.

I did the plumbing / piping work myself but the US Navy spent a good chunk of change teaching me about a whole mess of stuff and if you don't feel confident about your own skills then hiring it out is a good idea.
Or your could just pay some one to listen and look at what you plan to do, do it your self and hire them back to look it over afterward before you light up.
Lots of companies will NOT hook up anything they are unfamiliar with due to insurance liabilities.
Depending on the building codes where you live you might be "legally" required to get the whole thing inspected and approved by a fire inspector or the city building inspector.

I put a tee in the line from the back of my gas kitchen stove and put a separate shut off valve there { a good 10 feet or more from the torch bench, so i could shut it off from a safe distance if something went wrong on me} and plumbed more black pipe to the bench.

I tried to use a flash back arrester but I got the kind that have a check valve inside instead of the metal screen and the pressure was not enough to open the valve.
With the screen kind you can blow lightly through either end, with the check valve it only goes one way.


Remember that the fuel connectors have a notch cut at the corners of the nut and spin to tighten in the other direction than regular bolts.

Oh and don't reef down hard on the valves on the torch, or the brass fittings when putting it all together.
The brass is soft to make a good seal by lightly deforming the two surfaces together making a great seal.
If they get crammed too hard they can get damaged threads or matting surfaces and develop leaks.
That can ruin very expensive torches and require factory repair.
__________________
The Zombie Apocalypse is Upon Us.

Last edited by Speedslug; 2020-07-30 at 2:47am.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2020-07-30, 2:53am
Speedslug's Avatar
Speedslug Speedslug is offline
Phill
 
Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Winnebago, MN
Posts: 2,489
Default

OH Yeah, BEFORE I forget ....

You really don't want to work with Propane in a basement anyway.
It is heavier than air and even a tiny leak can pool in a basement until you flip a light switch or it finds the the flame in a furnace or water heater and then it will go boom just like in the movies.
And your insurance company will not cover any of the damages.

AND not only all that but....

Your insurance company could refuse to pay any other kind of claim like water damage from a leaky pipe if they find out that you have more than a one pound can of propane inside your house.
Their lawyers love to find reasons to refuse to pay claims like that.
__________________
The Zombie Apocalypse is Upon Us.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2020-07-30, 6:50am
BurningScentsations's Avatar
BurningScentsations BurningScentsations is offline
Seeker of Beauty
 
Join Date: Aug 29, 2005
Location: Roselle, IL
Posts: 196
Default

Phil,

Thank you very much for your help. As always, you are a fount of knowledge.

The way you describe your setup is how I was envisioning it too, but wasn't sure if there was a better way. (I remember how we hooked up our bunson burners in chemistry lab in high school, and figured this would work the same way.)

I'll definitely be hiring out to have the work done. Would a plumber be who I call? I will definitely check the inner diameter of the hose

Have a great day,

Lloyd
__________________
Lloyd
---------------------------------------------
BlueBlazesStudio
AKA BurningScentsations

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2020-07-30, 8:03pm
msy439's Avatar
msy439 msy439 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2006
Location: buffalo,ny
Posts: 596
Default

Call HVAC professional and have them set up a shut off valve at the pipe connection and you will have shut off at your torch for added safety.
__________________
msy439
_____________
As I've matured I learned that I don't suffer from insanity.I enjoy it.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2020-07-31, 12:01pm
Speedslug's Avatar
Speedslug Speedslug is offline
Phill
 
Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Winnebago, MN
Posts: 2,489
Default

Aye, MSY439 has the way of it.

We use the term 'plumbed lines' but it's HVAC folks that work with gas lines.
__________________
The Zombie Apocalypse is Upon Us.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2020-07-31, 2:11pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 07, 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,023
Default

propane is too hazardous to use in a basement? Haha....Complete nonsense. Just understand the issues and do it responsibly. There are perfectly safe ways to do this and many many artists do. Im tired of the misinformation being shared here as gospel.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2020-08-01, 7:08am
BurningScentsations's Avatar
BurningScentsations BurningScentsations is offline
Seeker of Beauty
 
Join Date: Aug 29, 2005
Location: Roselle, IL
Posts: 196
Default

MSY439,

Thank you very much for the info. I never would have thought that the HVAC folks would do that. That's a great piece of information.

Phiil, Thanks again for all your help!

Larry,

Thanks for your reply. I know it can be done. I did it years the first time around when I had my studio. I might still use propane again, but would like to improve the safety of it nonetheless.

Maybe keep the propane outside until I need it. I'll need quick connectors to disconnect the hose since I don't want to strip the threads by constantly unscrewing them.

Do these exist for tanks. I know the quick connects do exist for the torch side of the house.


Thanks again everyone!
__________________
Lloyd
---------------------------------------------
BlueBlazesStudio
AKA BurningScentsations

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2020-08-02, 10:10am
LarryC LarryC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 07, 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,023
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurningScentsations View Post

Larry,

Thanks for your reply. I know it can be done. I did it years the first time around when I had my studio. I might still use propane again, but would like to improve the safety of it nonetheless.

Maybe keep the propane outside until I need it. I'll need quick connectors to disconnect the hose since I don't want to strip the threads by constantly unscrewing them.

Do these exist for tanks. I know the quick connects do exist for the torch side of the house.


Thanks again everyone!
There are a lot of excellent safety related resources online. If your interested in how professionals safely run Propane indoors please contact the glass artist community on facebook in the various groups that exist there. Also there is an active glass artist forum at talkglass.com as well. There are good reasons why this forum has been a ghost town for years.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2020-08-05, 9:00pm
BurningScentsations's Avatar
BurningScentsations BurningScentsations is offline
Seeker of Beauty
 
Join Date: Aug 29, 2005
Location: Roselle, IL
Posts: 196
Default

Larry,

Thank you very much. I'll be sure to check that out.

Lloyd
__________________
Lloyd
---------------------------------------------
BlueBlazesStudio
AKA BurningScentsations

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2020-08-06, 3:23pm
KJohn's Avatar
KJohn KJohn is offline
Slogan Challenged...
 
Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Maricopa, Arizona
Posts: 6,273
Default

I've considered doing that, I would love to know how it turns out with your torch, which one did you decide on?
__________________
Kristin ~

Facebook:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Etsy:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2020-08-19, 6:21am
BurningScentsations's Avatar
BurningScentsations BurningScentsations is offline
Seeker of Beauty
 
Join Date: Aug 29, 2005
Location: Roselle, IL
Posts: 196
Default

Kristin,

I'm doing propane at least for now. It is so much simpler and a known quality of heat. I've got the Alpha Torch sitting in my basement and the oxycon. Waiting on several more shipments including the kiln. That's going to be a while!

Natural gas was so many unknowns and what if it wasn't hot enough for me or there were pressure problems? Probably wouldn't be, but wasn't sure.

Plus hubby was afraid an odd gas valve in the basement might hurt resale value down the road.

Maybe we worry too much!
__________________
Lloyd
---------------------------------------------
BlueBlazesStudio
AKA BurningScentsations

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2020-08-26, 6:11am
LochGlassBeads LochGlassBeads is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 06, 2020
Posts: 9
Default

I wonder what PSI a normal gas line to a house is, & what a torch needs. Is there variation on this state by state? Or even city by city?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2020-08-26, 7:55pm
msy439's Avatar
msy439 msy439 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2006
Location: buffalo,ny
Posts: 596
Default

I run a minor on natural gas at 1\4 PSI with a 10 liter oxycon,I cannot work Boro or do sculptures but I dont want to so this is good set up for me. I f you need to run hotter you need to work with propane. you can check with your gas company on the PSI in your area.
__________________
msy439
_____________
As I've matured I learned that I don't suffer from insanity.I enjoy it.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2020-08-29, 4:14pm
Alaska Alaska is offline
Alaska Boro
 
Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 1,065
Default



One can locate the pressure delivered to the house by looking for pressure information as located on the gas meter regulator. Different models may have the data in various locations. In this case it is on the end cap of the regulator.

At my location it is 6.5 to 7.5 WC (water column) which converts to .235 to .271 PSI or about 1/4 PSI. To convert WC to PSI search for the converter on the web.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2020-10-29, 7:53am
armo armo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 11, 2015
Posts: 7
Default Liquefied Natural Gas and oxygen setup

Hi, all. I´m from Brasil and I´m trying to setup a small studio to work with glass. Since I don not have access to any kind of surface mix burner, I bought one that is used for brassing or welding copper tubes. Now the problem: I do not know why this torch keeps popping (and it is a louding pop!) every time that I lite it up. Normally I start with all gas valves closed and open the butane valve, when I lit the butane ist happens, a loud pop. I looked here but since english is not my first language possible I´ve missed it. Can anyone help me on this subject?
Alfredo
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2020-10-29, 8:17am
armo armo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 11, 2015
Posts: 7
Default

Another question that I have is why the tip of the torch is at higer temperature after few minutes using it? I think a little warm up is natural but it heats up until it glows...do not looks like a natural thing to happens
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 2020-10-29, 10:31am
Speedslug's Avatar
Speedslug Speedslug is offline
Phill
 
Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Winnebago, MN
Posts: 2,489
Default

No sure what to tell you about the popping.

The hot torch head is because the gas is not coming out fast enough to push the flame away from the metal.

Give the fuel more flow so that the torch does not get hot.
__________________
The Zombie Apocalypse is Upon Us.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 2020-10-29, 6:19pm
armo armo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 11, 2015
Posts: 7
Default

Thanks a lot!! I will try this tomorow morning.
Alfredo
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 2021-01-28, 10:27am
juniemoon's Avatar
juniemoon juniemoon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 09, 2005
Location: West Okoboji Iowa
Posts: 497
Default

I work a cricket on natural gas and two oxycons. I can work Boro melting it fairly quickly, I don't see much difference but I don't work Boro as a rule anyway.
I called a plumber, they came ran hose to my torch and attatched to basement ceiling and installed shut off near torch. $400.00 . That was over a decade ago. No pressure problems.....So easy, so happy for it to installed professionally and to stop making those trips for propane

Juniemoon
__________________
MOTH TO THE FLAME


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 8:05am.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Your IP: 44.215.110.142