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Customer Service Kiosk -- Questions for LE vendors.

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  #1  
Old 2009-09-04, 4:39pm
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Default New Effetre/CIM colors and comparison

I just read Kandice's blog about her recent color testings and I really agree with what she says. On the whole, I love all the new CIM colors (especially Tamarind and Phoenix) but I dislike most of the Effetre ones from the "Beyond beauty" assortment (especially Sea Green).

My opinion is that CIM are doing an incredible job at creating a very complete palette of both already existing shades and new ones. The other thing I appreciate hugely is the consistency of their colors, which are always what you expect them to be when you don't buy the Unique version.

Regarding the Effetre production, I don't get it. In my opinion there is one gem (litterally) in the new collection: Alexandrite. But mostly I have 3 questions:

- what on earth is going on with corals?? Why do they insist on making more coral when there are 47 gazillions shades of coral on the market? I am seriously curious about that. Are these the results of trials for pinks? Are they such great sellers? I want to know, please!

- why does green = streaky?

- why do new colors in general = streaky?

I'd like to know your thoughts on all that
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  #2  
Old 2009-09-04, 4:53pm
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Default Corals with Morals

Quote:
I just read Kandice's blog about her recent color testings and I really agree with what she says. On the whole, I love all the new CIM colors (especially Tamarind and Phoenix) but I dislike most of the Effetre ones from the "Beyond beauty" assortment (especially Sea Green).

My opinion is that CIM are doing an incredible job at creating a very complete palette of both already existing shades and new ones. The other thing I appreciate hugely is the consistency of their colors, which are always what you expect them to be when you don't buy the Unique version.

Regarding the Effetre production, I don't get it. In my opinion there is one gem (litterally) in the new collection: Alexandrite. But mostly I have 3 questions:

- what on earth is going on with corals?? Why do they insist on making more coral when there are 47 gazillions shades of coral on the market? I am seriously curious about that. Are these the results of trials for pinks? Are they such great sellers? I want to know, please!

- why does green = streaky?

- why do new colors in general = streaky?

I'd like to know your thoughts on all that
Let me tell you a story about Effetre Corals. Each time they make coral, they use the same ingredients, the same tools, the same furnaces, same techniques, the same machinery, but each time they produce Coral they have no control over what the tonality is.

When I was in Murano last time and even when I do not go to Murano, Effetre will show me or tell me when they have different tonalities.

When Effetre makes corals, they might make them for a week and during that week there can be many different tonalities, usually the changes are from day to day.

I do not want 500 kilos of the same tonality of coral. So I buy 200 kilo of this tonality, 400 kilos of that tonality and so on and so on. If I like one tonality more than another, I buy more of the one I like.

So now the I have picked out 4 different corals when I am in Italy and put some in my suitcase and then I have Effetre airfreight 10 kilo of each tonality. When they arrive we test, we review and give each coral its own stock number after the 591420 and give it a name that our customers can relate to.

Coral Lobster looks like boiled lobster shell...yum yum
Coral Martian Strata, well we think it looks like the surface of the red planet
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Coral Sunburst, well it reminded us of a sun bursting and this is how they
get their individual names.

I know, if you never have been on Mars or eaten lobster you might not know, but it is better than Coral-1, -2, -3 and so on and so on.

I hope this helps explain why there are so many corals and while some lampworkers say TOO MANY CORALS......we have some lampworkers that love the new ones.

I still am trying to find a tonality of coral from 1982!

Mikey
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  #3  
Old 2009-09-04, 4:57pm
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I really think it's a matter of personal taste. A lot of the new Effetre colours appeal to me on an organic level, and Kandice even says in her blog that a couple of the new colours aren't suitable for the beads she makes but will probably be excellent for organics.

Stuff you hate, other people will love. Stuff I love, other people will hate. The glass manufacturers (as I'm sure they've found) can't please everyone. I think some of the CiM colours are pretty ugly, but I love others. I feel the same way about Effetre, Vetrofond, Reichenbach, Kugler.

I'm just happy everyone continues to make more colours
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Old 2009-09-04, 5:34pm
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Speaking of Vetrofond....Mike do you have any idea when the basic colors are going to be back in stock? White, Ivory and Black.....It's been a long time. Are they still making colors??
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Old 2009-09-04, 6:31pm
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Quote:
I really think it's a matter of personal taste. A lot of the new Effetre colours appeal to me on an organic level, and Kandice even says in her blog that a couple of the new colours aren't suitable for the beads she makes but will probably be excellent for organics.

Stuff you hate, other people will love. Stuff I love, other people will hate. The glass manufacturers (as I'm sure they've found) can't please everyone. I think some of the CiM colours are pretty ugly, but I love others. I feel the same way about Effetre, Vetrofond, Reichenbach, Kugler.

I'm just happy everyone continues to make more colours
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I think you hit the hammer on the nail;.

I do not know what I would do if they made glass against the law.....

I sold glass for a living
Never broke the law

Then they made it illegal
And I got the call

The local cops came and took me away
Down to the station and what did they say?

We could not wear beads
No more little pipes
No more murrini
Yikes!

I woke from my sleep
It was only a dream
Glass and color is my life
Do you know what I mean?

It would take my joy away
If I could not share my color
Glad it was a dream
And not to be a bummer.

Mikey
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  #6  
Old 2009-09-04, 6:52pm
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Thank you so much for your input! I love a Mikey insider story and I appreciate that you take the time to tell us more about the glass we love so much.

However, it doesn't really answer my questions! So let me re-formulate that:
I understand why they come out with so many different shades and that's a really cool thing for all of us who love coral (I mean I really do love my corals!), but my question was Why do they chose to make coral in the first place? Why not more blues, more browns, more pinks (as everybody keeps asking) or purples, more neutrals? (I love Sandstone, by the way, and yes, I understand the personal taste thing and the joy of discovering new colors in general. Kandice did word it well indeed)
I'm just being curious about why things go or don't go into production?

Also, the comparison with the CIM colors came especially because of that: they have been trying to build up their palette in a very logical, customer-attentive way, releasing additions to each color family regularly, trying to fill in gaps (and trying to copy some classic formulas, as is my guess) and I thing it's been a very smart approach.

Anyway, again, I really enjoy learning about my materials, so please keep teaching me!
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Old 2009-09-04, 7:06pm
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Default Would not bet my life on it

Quote:
Thank you so much for your input! I love a Mikey insider story and I appreciate that you take the time to tell us more about the glass we love so much.

However, it doesn't really answer my questions! So let me re-formulate that:
I understand why they come out with so many different shades and that's a really cool thing for all of us who love coral (I mean I really do love my corals!), but my question was Why do they chose to make coral in the first place? Why not more blues, more browns, more pinks (as everybody keeps asking) or purples, more neutrals? (I love Sandstone, by the way, and yes, I understand the personal taste thing and the joy of discovering new colors in general. Kandice did word it well indeed)
I'm just being curious about why things go or don't go into production?

Also, the comparison with the CIM colors came especially because of that: they have been trying to build up their palette in a very logical, customer-attentive way, releasing additions to each color family regularly, trying to fill in gaps (and trying to copy some classic formulas, as is my guess) and I thing it's been a very smart approach.

Anyway, again, I really enjoy learning about my materials, so please keep teaching me!
Ok, normally I would want to back this up with facts, and I have no facts, just assumptions:

1. Effetre sells glass all over the world and the world does not use the
same colors as the Americans do.

2. I have never seen an organic color being used in Murano
3. The colors they worked with 50 years ago they work with today,
of course there are exceptions, but they are not the rule.

4. I bet that less than 5% of Effetre production goes to the U.S.

These are four reasons why they make what they make. They make what customers want and ask for, but production companies (and there are allot of them) like corals and not blue (just kidding).

This is not to say that the world does not like blue, but when Effetre makes coral they make tons of it and end up with different tonalities and sometimes there are buyers out there who only want one tonality, so they make allot of it. When it comes to Blues they have no problem with them so they do not have to make allot because they get the correct tonality every time.

It would be great if perwinkle came out different everytime. A bit too dark, a bit too light, some with swirls, some that are streaky, that would be cool. But we do not get that except with Coral. A few other colors can have a few different tonalities, but none like the Corals.

I hope this helps answer your questions, if not ask away.

mikey
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  #8  
Old 2009-09-04, 7:40pm
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Quote:
some lampworkers say TOO MANY CORALS..
OMG no such thing as too many corals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep 'em coming!
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  #9  
Old 2009-09-04, 7:45pm
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Yessss! Now things make more sense; I am beginning to understand (sorry I'm a slow blonde) that CIM is focusing on the lampworkers market and that's why we logically feel that we're priority for them. I see.

I guess you're also saying that if the world has been happy with emerald green and medium blue for centuries, there is no reason for the Italians to spend energy and time and money to try and create, say, a denim blue (like the Czeck one) or a chocolate brown or the elusive pastel dark pink? I suppose the American market is the only one begging for that color?

I don't know much about glass and glass work, so please bear with me...
I am still wondering why greens are streaky
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And while we're at it, why blues are easy to produce (or more predictable)?
What goes into glass production R and D?
When are you writing that book?
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Old 2009-09-04, 10:13pm
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Default no books

Quote:
Speaking of Vetrofond....Mike do you have any idea when the basic colors are going to be back in stock? White, Ivory and Black.....It's been a long time. Are they still making colors??
There will be no book, but I will start writing for the Frantz Blog. A story every now and then, and then photos, a history lesson, or a visit to Murano.

mikey
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  #11  
Old 2009-09-04, 11:25pm
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Quote:
There will be no book, but I will start writing for the Frantz Blog. A story every now and then, and then photos, a history lesson, or a visit to Murano.

mikey
..and more poems too, please!?
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Old 2009-09-04, 11:30pm
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I hope I can add in here, even though I'm not a vendor....when I was lucky enough to visit the Vetrofond factory, it was a real eye-opener to see how little of their production focusses on making glass rods. It was like one tiny section of their entire massive factory.

Maybe Effetre is the same too & they're doing their best to satisfy a relatively minor part of their business.

Please correct me if I'm wrong Mike!

Marianne.
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Old 2009-09-04, 11:48pm
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I hope I can add in here, even though I'm not a vendor....when I was lucky enough to visit the Vetrofond factory, it was a real eye-opener to see how little of their production focusses on making glass rods. It was like one tiny section of their entire massive factory.

Maybe Effetre is the same too & they're doing their best to satisfy a relatively minor part of their business.

Please correct me if I'm wrong Mike!

Marianne.
While your are correct about Vetrofond, the opposite is true about Effetre. I would say that 100% of Effetre production is glass rods and millefiori

mikey
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  #14  
Old 2009-09-05, 3:26am
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I love each and every new color, or tonality, and buy at least a pound, if available, of each!!!
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  #15  
Old 2009-09-05, 11:56am
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I'm still wondering about one of Flonche's original questions...why do all the Effetre greens seem to end up streaky? I would give anything for a simple, homogenous crayon green. (Anything except my coral collection, anyway.
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Old 2009-09-05, 12:39pm
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Default No Answer

Quote:
I'm still wondering about one of Flonche's original questions...why do all the Effetre greens seem to end up streaky? I would give anything for a simple, homogenous crayon green. (Anything except my coral collection, anyway.
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I do not have the answer to that question. Which Effetre green colors are you referring to? If you can provide a name and a stock number I will find you an answer.

Mikey
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  #17  
Old 2009-09-05, 12:47pm
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Well pretty much of them pastel greens! Lt and dk grass 216, petroleum 218, pea 212 and nile 214 and even the beloved Grasshopper 213. The new Sea Green (207?) is the worst
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Old 2009-09-05, 1:52pm
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I have got to agree that CiM is doing a great job with their color and just mentioned this to Kathy a few weeks ago. I love the way they package too and that I don't have to spend hours cutting meters of glass into thirds!
But I also love Coral too and all of the variations from Effetre! And most of all I love Vetrofond Odd colors! So keep them coming Mike! Can't wait to see the new stuff!
Paula
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Old 2009-09-05, 3:15pm
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I would hazard a guess and say it is all about responsiveness to the market. Mike says Moretti production is 99 percent in other areas than lampworking therefore lampworkers are way down on their list on priority. CIM on the other hand is probably 100% lampworker oriented.
I also think we need more tonalities of pinks and purples and they are expensive and difficult to produce but we are more likely to get them from CIM than Moretti.
Another point might be the relative age of the companies. Youthful vigor as opposed to aged stubborness! LOL
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Old 2009-09-05, 3:18pm
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CIM is my very favorite new glass. The colors are gorgeous, it melts beautifully and the packaging kicks ass!
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Old 2009-09-05, 3:37pm
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Actually, I love the streakiness (is that a word?) of petrol green. It looks almost like malachite - of course, so far I have only made spacers -

My pea green turned out rather un-streaky.
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Old 2009-09-06, 4:17am
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In regards to the CIM color improvements I know on their website, under "artists" there is an area "color request." Artists can actually request new colors or shades of previous colors. I am pretty sure this is one of the main reasons why CIM comes up with new colors every so often.

Duane
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  #23  
Old 2009-09-06, 6:42am
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Old 2009-09-06, 7:02am
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Happy birthday to you color girl!
Thank you for your precisions. All that you're explaining is exactly what I agreed with you when I read your blog: my taste in glass right now for my type of beads. Needless to say we still love Effetre and Vetrofond and Lauscha and Reichenbach etc. Only at this time I've had great surprises from CIM and when I look back at their "body of work" I think they're building up a great brand.
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Old 2009-09-06, 7:56am
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Quote:
I would hazard a guess and say it is all about responsiveness to the market. Mike says Moretti production is 99 percent in other areas than lampworking therefore lampworkers are way down on their list on priority. CIM on the other hand is probably 100% lampworker oriented.
I also think we need more tonalities of pinks and purples and they are expensive and difficult to produce but we are more likely to get them from CIM than Moretti.
Another point might be the relative age of the companies. Youthful vigor as opposed to aged stubborness! LOL
Or meant to let you know that 99% (my own guess) of their production does not go to the U.S. Glass of Effetre is for glass blowing and bead making, in parts of the world other than the U.S.

Have you seen organic beads in Murano?

I would not say it is a case of color "Stuck in the Mud", it is a case of just making what the glass workers want based on what customers will buy.


Mikey
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Old 2009-09-06, 8:56am
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This is another exciting aspect of glass! How we all translate our cultural differences with the same medium.
Yes, I remember the palette in the shops and stores in Venice: bright gem tones, and black to make the colors pop. Just look at a pack of Effetre millifiore and that's it, all the colors are here. No "Stuck in the Mud" or "Rotten banana" or "Geese shat on my burnt lawn" or "Baby's Upset" in Venice. Those are colors for the modern world with modern values and modern problems! Not colors of a world that recently discovered the beauty of emerald and rubies.
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Old 2009-09-06, 10:01am
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY, KANDICE!!!!!

I think, despite our occasional grousing, that one of the best things is having so many manufacturers making so many wonderful colors that mostly work very well together. I love Effetre for basic, familiar colors. I love Vetro for all of those cool odds (and their black). I love CIM for the new colors that fill in the palette some more. And I even love Devardi for some new palette add-ins, despite some of the challenges it presents.
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Thank you, glass makers!
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Karen Sherwood

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