New problems :(

margiek19380 · #1 2008-05-22, 1:33pm

My wife got home and the package of glass was waiting for her... it is the "Italian Trasparenti Glass Rods - 104 COE" from Traceysworkshop.com. We are currently using the fireworks bead release that comes with the starter kit. She is telling me that she has tried 3 times to far to get the new glass on the mandrel, but says the release is breaking off as soon as she touches the new glass to the release.

I'm guessing the first comment will be to use a different bead release. uggghhh

Is there anything we can do to these mandrels to make the glass work for now? We don't have a close source for getting new release...

thanks for helping
david

alexm · #2 2008-05-22, 1:37pm

Sometimes new mandrels have a coating on them. Have you checked for that? Some people sand their new mandrels, I heat the bare mandrel in the flame until reddened. Let cool and coat with bead release and see if this solves your problem. If not, I would recommend another bead release.

Phoenix · #3 2008-05-22, 1:40pm

I just took a look at Tracysworkshop.com -the glass is Effetre -which is a good, common glass. I have not used fireworks bead release, but if she wants to work glass until new bead release arrives (whcih would be a good idea) I would recommend starting by letting the release air dry for a few hours to overnight and then slowly warming the whole top of the mandrel before winding on the glass

margiek19380 · #4 2008-05-22, 2:08pm

the mandrels are not new... we've been using them since Mother's Day.

These mandrels have actually been coated for a few days... we slowly have run out of glass.. OMG.. since Mother's Day and just got the new glass today, so the mandrels were already coated and waiting.

Is there such a thing as leaving the mandrels coated too long?

david

alexm · #5 2008-05-22, 2:12pm

I often coat my mandrels and use them weeks or even months later. Other people have reported that they have to use freshly coated mandrels or else the release breaks. I think it might have something to do with humidity, it's pretty dry over here.

lunamoonshadow · #6 2008-05-22, 2:49pm

I find that Fusion bead release is good even months later--I've even left it (I can't believe I'm admitting this

) on mandrels in a flower pot outside in the random Maine weather (and Maine weather IS RANDOM!!!) under the porch overhang for a few months & then used them & they were just fine...I

fusion!

DesertDreamer · #7 2008-05-22, 3:24pm

sometimes sharp changes in humidity can affect bead release. Like here, today. LOL I dipped mandrels on Monday, when it was HOT (110) and very dry. Today it's cool and humid. I made 3 beads and every one of them has cracking bead release. I blame the humidity more than the glorious temperature drop. One bead started fine, the other two, despite careful heating, bubbled through the glass as soon as I started heating the bead for shaping.

I'm using Fosterfire Strong & Tuff.

kbinkster · #8 2008-05-22, 3:38pm

Why not experiment off-mandrel? You can make some pendants with the new glass.

Carolyn M · #9 2008-05-22, 8:22pm

I would buy new bead release

yellowbird · #10 2008-05-22, 8:38pm

taking a stab at this. Is the release on too thick?

yellowbird · #11 2008-05-22, 8:40pm

Here's another question for you..What happens when you run your fingers over the release that is on the mandrels? is it falling off when you touch it?

FlameFilly · #12 2008-05-22, 9:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowbird

taking a stab at this. Is the release on too thick?

What I would check also.Some releases can be thinned quite a bit. When i first was flameworking my release had issues w/cracking and it was becuase I was using it way to thick. I'm surprised at how thin I can make it now.

jaci · #13 2008-05-22, 10:32pm

Oh I would wash your mandrels too. scrub them with a brillo or stainless chor boy pad. I do this almost every time. It will get any residue off them that may build up in the flame.(you don't have to get it all off, just a little. Some residue is a good thing). It is easy for oils to build up on the rods. You will also need to do this depending on how you soak your beads.

I would also check the thickness of your release. If you have any kiln wash it might be a good experiment as well. (its cheap, comes in powder form, you can get it a pottery shop, and works quite well, you just have to find the consistency.)

Do you have a kiln? Some bead releases like to be dried faster than just air dry to hold up better. If you hold the fresh dipped mandrel near or in the kiln to dry it will be done fast and it is easier than flame drying.

Keep us posted!!!

jaci · #14 2008-05-22, 10:39pm

oh and be sure to add bottled water to thin out your release. water softeners can break up the release and make it totally useless!

Vangy · #15 2008-05-23, 6:15am

I had the same problems with Fireworks Bead release. Either it would crack and release the bead while I was still working it or I would end up with garden stakes. I have not had one release break or garden stake since switching to BOM a few months ago. I have tried a few other brands (during classes taken with a local instructors) and all of them have worked better than the Fireworks Brand. Changing bead release solved my frustration.

margiek19380 · #16 2008-05-23, 10:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowbird

Here's another question for you..What happens when you run your fingers over the release that is on the mandrels? is it falling off when you touch it?

yes... if we touched the release it would fall off...

How much, or how many times can you add water to a jar of bead release? We have city water which of course probably has all kinds of nasty things in it. But, I keep a few gallons of water "steeping" under the sink so I can add it to my saltwater fish tank, so maybe I should be using that water. (I feel that letting the water sit allows the chemicals and crap to magically disappear).

Margie and tried again last night to make some beads and were able to get some to work. I'm wondering if maybe this glass (which I'm guessing is different than the Fireworks Starter Pack) just melts and works differently, and we need a different/better bead release. Not that I'm knocking Fireworks stuff... we are THRILLED with what we have done so far.

I placed an order with Hertigage Glass in New Baunfels, TX yesterday for some more glass... again 104 coe. I figured I better get ahead of Margie's beadmaking so she doesn't run out again.

Is it better for me to post many different posts in here with our many questions...??

david

jaci · #17 2008-05-23, 12:35pm

Add a little water, it is easier to add more than to wait till it dries out again. Just make sure there is no water softener in your water and you'll be alright.

Firebrand Beads · #18 2008-05-23, 1:52pm

Might not be different glass at all... most of the Italian rod, whether made by Moretti or Vetrofond, should work the same. Moretti is what the majority of beadmakers use, by far, with Vetro a close second, and most of the 104 starter packs (unless specified as being another brand) use Moretti.
Can't comment on the Fireworks bead release. I've been making my own since 1991, when you either made your own or went without, lol!

yellowbird · #19 2008-05-23, 4:11pm

Yes it must be the release because it should not be falling off when touched.

they have some at wales which is close to you but closed on sat.

margiek19380 · #20 2008-05-24, 3:58pm

Well... I'm guessing that it's the bead release... we'll have to get by with this for now... and order something different in the future...

What's the difference between bead release and kiln wash? I see that Annie's Bead Release is promoted as either?

david

jaci · #21 2008-05-24, 9:47pm

Kiln wash can be used as bead release. It is used to coat fusing and slumping molds so glass does not stick to them. For that it needs to be super smooth and usually pretty thin. You may even need multiple aplications to get the right covering. Bead release is made stronger and tuffer for some good abuse. Basically it has been modified to fit our lampwork needs.

margiek19380 · #22 2008-05-25, 6:37am

Ok... I'm thinking that we have added water enough times that maybe the original ingredients to the bead release are too diluted to work well? Would coating the mandrel twice help with that?

jaci · #23 2008-05-25, 8:44am

when you have to add water it it because the water that was already in it has evaporated. just leave the lid off for a while, (a day at should do it. Stir it every now and then if it is more than a day, or let the water come to the surface and pour it off)

double dipping SHOULD work for now

make sure it is dry before dipping again, and then let it air dry, no flame dry for double dippers! they don't play well with others...

kbinkster · #24 2008-05-25, 9:04am

Remember, when dipping your mandrels, the slower you pull the madrel out of the release, the thinner the coat and the faster you pull it out, the thicker the coat. I think that it is better to coat it thinly and redip than to coat it thickly the first time, but that's just my opinion.

I used to use Alice's bead release and kiln wash. Then, I moved to FosterFire heavy duty bead release. They are both pretty good. I have some pink kiln wash (BE pink slipper?) that I have been wanting to try as a bead release for no other reason than it is pink and I would get a kick out of having a bunch of pink mandrels standing around.

papimom · #25 2008-05-25, 11:44am

I threw a few ball bearings into my release so when I shake it up it gets a better mix. It really has helped. I guess I was not shaking enough without them.
Joan

jaci · #26 2008-05-25, 11:21pm

Joan GREAT point!
I use broken beads and wonkies in my release! works great!

simvet02 · #27 2008-05-26, 12:24pm

I added some kiln wash to the bead release when I got it too thin. I have added water and kiln wash a few times now and I love the bead release now. (I am still using the same bead release that came with my hot head kit).

margiek19380 · #28 2008-05-26, 1:18pm

Hmmm.. maybe we just aren't doing this right.

We tried dipping the madrels.. letting them dry overnight, then dipping again. What we are seeing is cracking of the bead release.. and then as we heat the mandrel the release tends to crack a little bit more.

Sometimes the second the glass touches the release it just breaks off the mandrel and sticks to the glass.

Are we not getting something hot enough? I mean the glass seems like it's screaming hot and practically running off the end of the rod... the mandrel is at least glowing hot as we get it ready.

hmmmmmm... we're going to keep working on it...

david

jaci · #29 2008-05-26, 3:29pm

it is the bead release. not you.
can you get away with one dip? or is it too thin? I find that one dip is always stronger.

krisdaka · #30 2008-05-27, 5:43am

I thought I read somewhere to *season* the mandrels, put them through a kiln cycle and get them hot and let em cool, could be wrong though. I do it occassionally though.