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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

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  #1  
Old 2020-05-02, 12:25am
iBlackSunday iBlackSunday is offline
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Default Ventilation hood and exhaust build + questions

So I've been working on purchasing the stuff to finally setup my work area. I've had a rough patch with money after moving into my own place away from a past relationship and I'm finally to the point where I have some extra spending money. I wanted to start a in depth documentation of this sort of thing since it took me so long to figure out and buy all the right equipment without shelling out more than I care to, while still staying safe.

I started off with searching for a fan. I spend close to 2 weeks research HARD and doing calculations and reading up on what others have used and I decided on THIS fan since it's rather inexpensive (Wasn't looking to spend $600 on a fan) and it pushes roughly 1400 CFM. The fan is also 14 inches (15 inch duct around fan) so it wasn't something astronomical that I'd never find ducting to go to and from. The day I got the fan in I got to work taking it apart and setting up the way I needed it. Since the fan was meant to blow from the duct portion through the square opening, I had to turn the fan around. I also removed the louvers since they would just shut from the air flow being reversed. After reassembling it and testing to make sure it moved air the way I wanted, I took a short video of it sucking up rather large vape clouds on the work bench, which you can see HERE. I actually think the fan works better with the motor turned around the opposite directly, maybe it's the square collar.

My next task was to put together a fume hood to capture all that bad air from the torch and colored glass. I also spent a good 2 weeks on this portion also, since I had the time off work since we're in quarantine and wanted to plan as much as possible before starting to build. I'm very meticulous when it comes to this stuff so of course I was worried about the small things. I came across THIS post here on these forums and I loved the idea and knew what I was going to do. I set to work today building the hood after running to Home Depot to get the materials. HERE is an album of me building the hood. Home Depot only had 3/4 side panels, so I have to wait till they get more in stock, but it's mostly built!

The ceiling of my garage is 96". The hood is 8" and the fan without the square collar is 9" equaling 19", then add a 70" human in the mix means I have 9" to work with if the hood is right at head level. I also need to add a 12" 90 elbow duct, which is roughly 16" in height as well as a 16" to 12" reducer, which is 8" tall, I'm looking at having to lower my hood quite a bit. This has me really thinking if I should just attach the fan to the wall and run a short amount of ducting from the hood to the fan, then resume my exhaust ducting out the bottom of the garage door. I don't want to put the fan too far from the hood, since the further away, the lower your average CFM will be, and I don't want to mess with lowering it too much. Any ideas that could help keep the brainstorm going would be appreciated. I really wanted to just attach the fan to the hood to allow for absolute direct airflow, but am worried I'll have to lower the hood much lower than planned and have it effect my working area and possibly bumping my head into it. I also thought about cutting one side of the hood so it was 4" - 5" shorter on the working side so the elbow would be pretty butt up with the ceiling. I currently have the 90 Elbow, 5' run of rigid duct, 16" to 12" reducer as well as a small amount of flex tubing to go from bottom of rigid out the bottom of the garage door on order from Home Depot, will be here next week. I chose flex tubing because I'll be moving it in and out of the way whenever I work. Won't be too long of a run, maybe 2' - 3' at max. I understand Flex Duct is VERY frowned upon, but I didn't have many options.

My current idea for a setup is Hood > Fan > Elbow > Reducer > Rigid Run > Flex Ducting

Purchases to date (Will update):
Running Total: $2175

Last edited by iBlackSunday; 2020-05-23 at 5:11pm.
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  #2  
Old 2020-05-13, 2:39pm
iBlackSunday iBlackSunday is offline
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Just finished up the ventilation setup and boy was it a PAIN. I ended up removing a portion of the fan to attach it to the hood, which wasn't that difficult. Ended up cutting the hole in the hood and attaching the 'collar' with screws, which the fan then sat right into. The duct work was the biggest pain. I had to do some custom modifying to one of the 90 ducts because it was attaching to a 15", and the 90 duct was 16". I ended up putting a really thick ring of foam around the fan to make it sorta fit, then just screwed the 90 duct into it. It's air tight because of a nice amount of foil tape which I've attached to damn near everything I can find that has an air leak.

The biggest issue I had with building the run of duct was keeping it together. I had to attach one thing, then make sure it was correctly in place, then place a few screws in to keep it there before going on to the next part. I had a huge issue at the beginning with keeping everything together to measure and make sure I had it attached correctly so it wasn't wildly off to where I wanted it officially.

HERE is a picture of how it's setup. I've done A LOT of testing to make sure it's working correctly, and I believe it's functioning correctly. Using a pretty strong vape, it does a good job of grabbing all the fumes are kicking it outside. One issue I'm having at the moment is there are small parts around the hood where I can feel the air moving, which could cause a turbulence issue, but I'm not majorly worried about it. It's functioning really well for what it is, and my total cost so far is roughly around $500.

Now on to looking at setting up Oxygen and Propane. I'm looking into oxygen concentrators since my living situation gives me zero outdoor storage and I believe it would just be a really good investment. K tanks and T tanks wouldn't be very friendly either, because I simply wouldn't be able to haul them with my tiny convertible sports car. Good news though, I have a reliable source for oxygen cons, it's just the cost that is damn scary...

Last edited by iBlackSunday; 2020-05-13 at 2:42pm.
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  #3  
Old 2020-05-14, 10:58am
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Speedslug Speedslug is offline
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Looks like you have a pretty good handle on the ventilation.

I would suggest replacing the corrugated sections with as much smooth wall ducting as you can.

The ribbing causes all kinds of turbulence inside the ducting and can reduce the 'effective size' of it by as much as 30%.

If you just put a foot or two where you absolutely have to be able to bend it to put it out side you will save a lot of turbulence.


Oh and make sure the out put end is at least ten feet from where your 'make up air' comes in.
Otherwise you can wind up sucking your fumes right back in to the studio in a loop.
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Old 2020-05-14, 11:05am
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You can also increase the efficiency by putting 3 walls around it or even partial walls.

It will help with directing the flow more smoothly.


It does suck that there really isn't a "one size fits all" answer to ventilation setups but everyones situation is different and we all have to make it up as we go along.

You only have to get it right once, but you do have to get it right that one time.


Looks good.
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Old 2020-05-14, 12:30pm
iBlackSunday iBlackSunday is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedslug View Post
I would suggest replacing the corrugated sections with as much smooth wall ducting as you can.
I've been brainstorming what to do to keep as much of the flex vent out of my setup. I just ordered another 90 12" elbow to add into the bottom of the 5' run of straight rigid duct and I'll look into adding a 1'-2' of rigid duct that I can add and remove when I work in the shop. This had crossed my mind a decent amount because I want this done correctly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedslug View Post
Oh and make sure the out put end is at least ten feet from where your 'make up air' comes in.
Otherwise you can wind up sucking your fumes right back in to the studio in a loop.
This is also something I battled with simply because I have a garage door to do my venting, and that's it. No windows or anything. My plan for the near future is to make a board that goes along the bottom of the garage door where one side has the duct exhausting from, then I'll have the top of the garage door as my 'make-up' air. My area is always really windy in the opposite directly. I've thought about this a lot because I don't want all my vent work to be done and have it be non-functional because of an oversight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedslug View Post
You can also increase the efficiency by putting 3 walls around it or even partial walls.
I actually read about this at the beginning and implemented that in the setup last night after doing my incense test. It seems to work better from the incense test, but I guess it really depends on the air flow in the work area.
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  #6  
Old 2020-05-15, 7:47pm
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Sounds like you are thinking everything and I applaud you for that.

A lot of folks just starting out throw together whatever they have at hand and only find out that it isn't cutting it when they get headaches, irritated eyes or a scratchy throat by which time they have already sucked in a ton of crap.



If you are going to torch in the winter time I suggest an infrared lamp pointed down in front of your face and another one or two pointed at you hands.

I use them in my garage when I am (was) working on the car or other projects when it was cold outside.
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Old 2020-05-17, 9:45pm
iBlackSunday iBlackSunday is offline
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Today I found a Millennium M10 Oxygen Concentrators (Goes up to 10 LPM) on Craigslist for $375 with 9 hours. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read it. I know the Millennium M10 is one of the juggernauts of the Oxy Con world, and with it having 9 hours, I was on top of it! E-mailed the lady and had it in my car within the hour, it had been posted 20 hours before.

I turned the machine on at the pick up location and it ran for a good 8 minutes while we talked. LPM rises and is very strong through-out. She said her boyfriend bought it as a back up, but they need the money right now and he already have one that's 5 LPM, and the 10 LPM is too powerful. Nice easy cash from me. She asked me if I was using it for a medical reason, we talked glass for a second and I head on my way out.

HERE are some pictures of the Oxy Con. I know this was repaired for some reason, assuming once the hospital was done with it, they cut the power cord and tore the serial label off. The guy she bought it from gets them and repairs them, so it's obvious this was more than likely the reason for it having a really short power cable and no serial number sticker.

I get my torch, hoses, regulators and flashback arrestors later this week so we will test the Oxy Con officially once all this is delivered. I'm super excited, because now this gives me more money for a better quality kiln or a bunch more starter glass to learn on. I have a small box of scrap borosilicate which I'll be practicing on.

Tomorrow is my birthday!
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  #8  
Old 2020-05-18, 6:06am
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Speedslug Speedslug is offline
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Well happy Birthday To You then!

Sounds like you scored.


Being from the Detroit area myself I have always been leary of anything that has had the serial number removed.
That has always been a sign of stolen property to me.

I picked up 4 oxycons that were sold at auction as scrap from the medical center in Ann Arbor Michigan because they were determined to be models that were too old and no longer worth repairing. The tubing inside gets brittle with age and the units need to be overhauled every 2 or 3 years to remain certifiable as life sustaining medical equipment.

I paid $50 each and it cost me more to get them shipped than that.

I bought them from the scrap dealer back in 2007 or so.

But they all still had serial numbers on them.

Also, 9 hours is brand new so that raises red flags for me as well.

But you do what you think is best on all these counts.

Sounds like you got a great deal and I am honestly happy for you.


Oh, and about torching in the winter; beside the infrared lamps to keep your face and hands warm you are going to want a heater under the bench to keep your feet and legs from freezing.

I suggest the quartz rod type heaters rather than the blower type.
You will find radiant heat is more cost effective than blowing warmed air that is going to get sucked right up the ventilation system and be gone in a heart beat.

You could rig up a "make-up air supply" to bring the cold outside air right to the back or bottom of your torch area.
( I have my torch bench right up against a window that I can crack open and it draws outside air right in at the torch area so that it feeds 90% of the "make up air" going up the vent system and only the 10% of it coming around me is heated / conditioned air from my house.

That way you can reduce the waste of any heated air going up the ventilation.

I designed such a set up from brainstorming the duct work parts at the hardware store for a friend who also is torching in her garage.
It minimizes the loss of room air while still allowing as much air the vent system wants.
And it doesn't need to leave any evidence if its existence in a rented garage.

Let me know if you want the details.
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Last edited by Speedslug; 2020-05-18 at 6:16am.
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  #9  
Old 2020-05-23, 4:59pm
iBlackSunday iBlackSunday is offline
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So once I picked up the oxygen concentrator, I knew I was just a few things away from actually doing some glass work. I decided to pick up a GTT Lynx because I really liked the way they look and how the Lynx is the center flame for the Phantom. Keeping the price relatively low compared to the Phantom and not make things too complicated from forcing me to use Oxygen Tanks. I figured I could use the 10 LPM Concentrator for the time being until I come into another Oxygen Con that is a good deal and start working my way up. I also bought the fuel regulator, flash back arrestor and the hosing to go with the torch. My father gave me a propane tank and I picked up a new one, now I can either exchange them or refill them, depending on the situation. I have edited my original post to reflect on my recent purchases.

HERE is an album of some photos I took of the 'studio'. (I know you guys are gonna yell at me about my propane tank, it goes as close to the garage door as possible when melting) Can I officially call it that even though it's just my garage? I think I've done enough research and money spending to be able to call it a studio. I'm really liking the torch so far and I've done about 5 hours of messing around making some really small basic implosions to get the hang of it. It's a lot easier than I thought, the hard part is not having the knowledge and experience to be able to spin things at the correct speed or coordination to put dots on a hot piece of glass without SHAKING LIKE CRAZY. Added Hardie Backer for my table top as well as the back wall to mitigate anything fiery happening. Also bought and mounted a fire extinguisher about 8 feet from my work area (As shown in last picture). I really like how my work area is at the front of the garage, so I can back my car in and at an angle and still have room to work. Grabbed a decent stool from my dads house, but I haven't used it much. I find it too hard to work while sitting, maybe I'm just not comfortable enough yet.

I also decided I needed some raw glass and went to work looking for the better deal/shipping on glass + some tools I needed like an L torch marver, paddle, reamer and such. I found that mountain glass had the better shipping, but they were out of 2 of the sizes of glass I needed, so I went with Lampwork Supply. I loved that ABR had free shipping, but their cases weren't on sale and the price was the exact same as Lampwork Supply even without the tools, so I stuck with the better pricing at Lampwork Supply. I guess you never really realize how expensive shipping is until you're shipping a good 130 lbs of glass around the country.

Last edited by iBlackSunday; 2020-05-23 at 5:14pm.
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  #10  
Old 2020-05-23, 5:49pm
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Eileen Eileen is offline
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It looks like you are working hard at making a good space. I hope you have many happy and productive hours there. Some people never do sit, they just feel better standing, no right or wrong. Some stand and sit depending on how they feel best for each task. It is looking like a studio to me

Some safety thoughts though:

Does the exhaust tubing extend when the torch is running? Can you extend it far enough to get it away from the garage door so the fumes are at least 10 feet from the door? If it is right by the door, it will be coming back in as replacement air. I can't tell, so figured I would ask to be sure.

Maybe think about getting a longer propane hose when you can so you can put it all the way outside for safety. Would it be possible to angle the hoses to the left instead of right under the table, to give you a bit more length?

Also, for safety, I would move the fire extinguisher so you can access it easily from the exit side of the garage, like on the opposite wall or to the outer wall in the corner to the left of your torch. Where it is now means you would be moving away from the outside to get it, and possibly be hampered from escape by the car.

Enjoy your space (but make it as safe as possible.)!
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  #11  
Old 2020-05-23, 11:02pm
iBlackSunday iBlackSunday is offline
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Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
It looks like you are working hard at making a good space. I hope you have many happy and productive hours there. Some people never do sit, they just feel better standing, no right or wrong. Some stand and sit depending on how they feel best for each task. It is looking like a studio to me

Some safety thoughts though:

Does the exhaust tubing extend when the torch is running? Can you extend it far enough to get it away from the garage door so the fumes are at least 10 feet from the door? If it is right by the door, it will be coming back in as replacement air. I can't tell, so figured I would ask to be sure.

Maybe think about getting a longer propane hose when you can so you can put it all the way outside for safety. Would it be possible to angle the hoses to the left instead of right under the table, to give you a bit more length?

Also, for safety, I would move the fire extinguisher so you can access it easily from the exit side of the garage, like on the opposite wall or to the outer wall in the corner to the left of your torch. Where it is now means you would be moving away from the outside to get it, and possibly be hampered from escape by the car.

Enjoy your space (but make it as safe as possible.)!
Safety is always in the back of my head constantly. I will move the fire extinguisher to the opposite side of the garage toward the front. Thank you for the tip!

The exhaust tubing does extend quite far out of the garage. It goes out and around the corner. I do put down a long board across the bottom of the garage so this forces the fresh air to come in through the top of the garage door, it is very windy where I am, this also helped the decision to put the studio against that wall as opposed to the other side of the garage. I keep the flex tubing in the garage when the garage door is shut, and which is why I tried to mitigate the flex tubing as much as possible, but it can only stick out so far with rigid duct. My fan is pretty powerful, which is what I was nervous about in the very beginning of building the hood. I would like to add more Hardie Backer or Fire Retardant dry wall painted white to reflect as much heat and light as possible on the sides. This would prove to be much more efficient than the card board sides currently. This will probably get done in next day or two before I go back to my job.

The propane tank does not stay under the table when I am working on the torch, I grab it from under the bench and pull it as close to the garage door as possible, but I do think I should angle them left to give me more hose to stick it outside, another great observation and I will move them tomorrow before working.I really would like to run the hose along the back of the bench and out of the way, then just move the propane tank directly out of the garage. It honestly makes me more nervous outside, but I know it's a safety issue.

All great observations and I really appreciate the more knowledgeable here helping with safety. Some keep glass secrets, but never let a safety hazard go unnoticed!

Last edited by iBlackSunday; 2020-05-23 at 11:08pm.
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Old 2020-05-24, 5:32am
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It sounds like you are doing great!
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  #13  
Old 2020-06-26, 12:11pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iBlackSunday View Post
So once I picked up the oxygen concentrator, I knew I was just a few things away from actually doing some glass work. I decided to pick up a GTT Lynx because I really liked the way they look and how the Lynx is the center flame for the Phantom. Keeping the price relatively low compared to the Phantom and not make things too complicated from forcing me to use Oxygen Tanks. I figured I could use the 10 LPM Concentrator for the time being until I come into another Oxygen Con that is a good deal and start working my way up. I also bought the fuel regulator, flash back arrestor and the hosing to go with the torch. My father gave me a propane tank and I picked up a new one, now I can either exchange them or refill them, depending on the situation. I have edited my original post to reflect on my recent purchases.

HERE is an album of some photos I took of the 'studio'. (I know you guys are gonna yell at me about my propane tank, it goes as close to the garage door as possible when melting) Can I officially call it that even though it's just my garage? I think I've done enough research and money spending to be able to call it a studio. I'm really liking the torch so far and I've done about 5 hours of messing around making some really small basic implosions to get the hang of it. It's a lot easier than I thought, the hard part is not having the knowledge and experience to be able to spin things at the correct speed or coordination to put dots on a hot piece of glass without SHAKING LIKE CRAZY. Added Hardie Backer for my table top as well as the back wall to mitigate anything fiery happening. Also bought and mounted a fire extinguisher about 8 feet from my work area (As shown in last picture). I really like how my work area is at the front of the garage, so I can back my car in and at an angle and still have room to work. Grabbed a decent stool from my dads house, but I haven't used it much. I find it too hard to work while sitting, maybe I'm just not comfortable enough yet.

I also decided I needed some raw glass and went to work looking for the better deal/shipping on glass + some tools I needed like an L torch marver, paddle, reamer and such. I found that mountain glass had the better shipping, but they were out of 2 of the sizes of glass I needed, so I went with Lampwork Supply. I loved that ABR had free shipping, but their cases weren't on sale and the price was the exact same as Lampwork Supply even without the tools, so I stuck with the better pricing at Lampwork Supply. I guess you never really realize how expensive shipping is until you're shipping a good 130 lbs of glass around the country.
Be careful using the Lynx on a concentrator. Always keep the blue oxy slighlty cracked open at least and realise that this torch was never intended for use with a concentrator so its always on the edge of oxy deprivation which could lead to damage at the torch face. You really should consider moving to compressed tanks since you really will not get the best from this torch unless you do.
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