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Jelveh Designs - Glass Beads Torched One-by-One

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Go Back   Lampwork Etc. > Library > Safety

Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

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  #1  
Old 2010-10-19, 8:00am
lisa@lo.and.behold lisa@lo.and.behold is offline
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Default Torch with Natural Gas and OxyCon

Hi Everyone,

I am going to set up a small torch (minor burner, carlysle cc, or mega minor) in a home studio with no tanked gasses - natural gas off the house supply and an EX15 from Carlisle. Can someone please advise me about what regulators/FBA/quick connects I need? I know with tanked gasses you need a regulator on both hoses, but I think it's different in my set up.

Thanks in advance for your help. I'm not experienced enough to post here, but I learn a lot from lurking!

lisa
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  #2  
Old 2010-10-19, 8:23am
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You need to be sure the torch you use will work with Natural Gas. I have a bethlehem betta hooked up to NG with an Oxycon and love it.
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Old 2010-10-19, 9:06am
lisa@lo.and.behold lisa@lo.and.behold is offline
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Thanks, Wendy. I just looked at the Betta on the Bethlehem website. Does that mean you don't need any flashback arrestors or regulators? When you are done torching, do you turn off the gas at the torch AND at the pipe, or just at the torch?
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  #4  
Old 2010-10-19, 10:29am
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Generally when using NG supply you do not use a flashback arrestor..... Also there is usually not enough pressure in NG supply to allow them to "open" to allow gas flow...

As for regulators, none needed, the NG supply is regulated at meter outside residence at about 1/3 PSI... Oxy-con output is probably stable enough at its internal delivery pressure (internal regulator) so no regulator needed there either....

As for quick disconnect for gas line, a standard welding type (sold at welding supplies and glass suppliers) is the most common and can be used... Also the quick disconnect for a portable gas grill may also be applicable. DO NOT even consider quick connects used in home garage for air compressors/ air tools as the DO NOT have the quality or precision to be exempt form leaks...

Here is some information...

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum....php?f=12&t=12

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...c.php?f=12&t=9

Here is a couple of picture of some other's NG installations...




Also this little GEM allows you to connect between standard gas piping (NPT or National Pipe Thread) to the proper threads of standard welding style "B" fittings found on welding hoses (which happen to be left hand threads) ...



Dale
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Last edited by Dale M.; 2010-10-19 at 10:40am.
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  #5  
Old 2010-10-19, 11:03am
lisa@lo.and.behold lisa@lo.and.behold is offline
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Thank you, Dale. I found your article at ArtGlassAnswers after I posted here, and I sent it to my contractor. Now I will send the photos, too.

Can you run me through the shut down process after torching. i.e. turn off torch, bleed line, turn off gas at source, disconnect hose at source. Are all those steps necessary or is it OK to leave the hose connected? leave the gas turned on? I will not, at this point, be changing torches at all, so my only purpose in have a quick connect would be if it is a safety issue to disconnect the hose.

Thanks again, lisa
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  #6  
Old 2010-10-19, 1:19pm
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You got it pretty close.... Shut down torch, shut down Safety Valve on end of metal piping, go back and open torch valve and bleed it off, you can either burn it off or not, but be sure ventilation is running....

Disconnecting hose from safety valve at wall is your choice. If leaving it connected does not interfere with "traffic" in area or there are not any problem with it being damaged with something like child's trike or a vacuum cleaner, by all means leave it connected, if you prefer you can disconnect it. The main thing is TURN OFF MAIN SAFETY VALVE when done torching.... And NEVER BLOCK ACCESS to safety valve. Maybe even a sign telling what valve is for and showing position of valve when off/on... Not just for you but "others" who may be in studio ( in case of accident), maybe fire personnel or paramedics or even family members....

Something you may want to consider is to put a 90° turn on piping as it comes through wall so hose and safety valve are parallel to wall and do not "stick out" into room...

Dale
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  #7  
Old 2010-10-19, 1:26pm
lisa@lo.and.behold lisa@lo.and.behold is offline
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Hmmm. I always did it the other way with my HH - shut down tank, burn off extra gas in hose, shut off torch. Is that wrong?

There will be no vacuum cleaners or trikes (I know my studio is going to be safe, but still, not a place for little kids scooting around, if you ask me!) and I will always turn off the main safety valve - as I always did with my tanked gas for the HH.

Thanks for all your suggestions.
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Old 2010-10-19, 1:31pm
bryntaran bryntaran is offline
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Hi Lisa, I have a Cricket torch, oxycon and hookup to natural gas. I love my torch and Crickets were made to run well on ng. I turn off my ng at the torch, then the valve when I am done, but leave the hoses connected. Haven't had a problem yet. Hope this helps, Judy
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Old 2010-10-24, 1:59pm
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Hmm, I'm on a minor with NG and oxycon. I turn off my O2, then shut off my NG valve til my flame blows out, then shut off at torch. I want to bleed out any gas in my hoses. Wonder if that's wrong? I'm a newb on NG as well. I also called Carlisle and got a firecheck. It's a one time use device my plumber installed that in case of a flashback would "quench" the fire before it reached my gas line. The guy at Carlisle is wonderful and even offered to speak to my plumber and walk him through the install if he didn't know how to do it.
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Old 2010-10-24, 2:24pm
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If a firecheck is the same as a flashback arrestor then you missed Dale's comment above in regard to a NG installation.

"Generally when using NG supply you do not use a flashback arrestor..... Also there is usually not enough pressure in NG supply to allow them to "open" to allow gas flow..."
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  #11  
Old 2010-10-24, 3:21pm
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Fire Check is not a flashback arrestor.... A flashback arrestor is a is a sort of a spring loaded check valve... A fire check is a device that has a microscopic membrane sort of material that has small pores and will allow natural gas molecules to flow through it, but the "pores" are small enough that it will not allow a FLAME front to pass through it..... IT takes a larger opening for a physical flame to pass through than the NG, that is why its called a "fire check".... And I believe I brought this to the forum a few years ago (or maybe it was on AGA), but discussion did not get any traction then... Ahhh yes... July 2006... http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum....php?f=7&t=210

http://www.carlislemachine.com/Carli...ire_Checks.htm

The large "hex" device in gas line in this picture may actually be a "fire check" but I have no documentation to support this ...





Dale
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Last edited by Dale M.; 2010-10-24 at 3:31pm.
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  #12  
Old 2010-10-24, 6:36pm
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Yes Dale your picture is correct. The large brass hex shape you mention is indeed the firecheck. Mine is exactly that. Thanks for that great description. Much more than I could have done. And yes it was your post from a few years ago when I was researching that prompted me to call and order one. Thanks again!

Here's mine. sorry the pic is so large.
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Last edited by glasslass2; 2010-10-24 at 6:48pm.
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  #13  
Old 2010-10-24, 6:57pm
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Great example of "how its done"....

Dale
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