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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2012-07-23, 3:27pm
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Default Tuxedo Cracking?

I have loved that CiM has just basic black- Tuxedo. I have loved using it for spacers and raised dot work. I am working on beads now that have a core of black before starting on the petals and I am using the Tuxedo. EVERY bead has cracked it is a mandrel crack but that is what Kryptonite did for me as well when I encased it. Has anyone else had these issues? I just cannot afford to loose another WHOLE batch of beads and I am out of other 104 blacks. I do have some R-104 dense black but not sure about its encasing in clear. If anyone knows that too would be helpful Thank you all for any and all help!!!

HUGS!
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  #2  
Old 2012-07-23, 3:47pm
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I use Tuxedo all the time, but I don't do a lot of encased work. I have never had any issues.
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  #3  
Old 2012-07-23, 3:54pm
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What temperature do you anneal at? I am wondering if there is a problem there I was on my striking silver glass annealing schedule which is 940 but I hear a lot of people anneal at 980???
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  #4  
Old 2012-07-23, 4:16pm
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I've had lots of compatibility issues with various CIM glasses. Kathy from CIM recommended annealing at no lower than 990 degrees. I can't say if this worked or not because I simply just quit using it, but other people have said higher annealing provided greater success with their beads.
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  #5  
Old 2012-07-23, 4:22pm
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THank you so much Angie! I will raise the temp of the kiln and try it out on a single bead to make sure. Do you recommend a black I can encase?
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  #6  
Old 2012-07-23, 5:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishBulb View Post
I've had lots of compatibility issues with various CIM glasses. Kathy from CIM recommended annealing at no lower than 990 degrees. I can't say if this worked or not because I simply just quit using it, but other people have said higher annealing provided greater success with their beads.
This has been my experience as well. I now only use CIM for the base color of beads. I no longer feel comfortable encasing CIM glasses.
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  #7  
Old 2012-07-23, 5:21pm
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I was afraid I was going to hear that I have had the worst luck with encasing them but figured that something like a "simple black" would be harmless......... I will use the R-104 Dense black I have or scrounge up a stump of moretti black and punty it up. I was surprised that I had run out of black glass actually....
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  #8  
Old 2012-07-23, 6:56pm
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If you use black as the base.. Effetre shows as black and I have never had trouble encasing that.. When you want black over pale .. That is when effetre looks wrong and can bleed to purple. Hope that helps...
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  #9  
Old 2012-07-23, 7:00pm
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Try the "heat sink" method. Core of clear. encase thinly with Tuxedo, then encase with clear. I haven't tried it with Messy Color but it works for colors that are fussy about encasement such as yellows and reds.
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  #10  
Old 2012-07-23, 7:50pm
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Thank you both!! Elizabeth that is my next step to use that method but I am placing an order with AGH in the morning so I will add some plain effetre black to that order. I know I have a stub of effetre black somewhere so I will use that for the beads I need to remake and then test out the Tuxedo and see if it works!
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  #11  
Old 2012-07-24, 9:08am
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It was because I heard about this a while ago that I bought only tuxedo stringers. Of course, that makes it very interesting when you actually do want to make a base bead out of the stuff...
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  #12  
Old 2012-07-24, 9:28am
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I am just wondering how they can say they have maximum compatibility when half their colors do not encase well and it is rarely info that is disclosed until a bunch of us report that there is a problem. I appreciated that when the ASK colors were out they specified which colors did not encase well.

It would just make a more informed buyer is all. I do not make enough unencased beads to warrant buying most of their colors.
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  #13  
Old 2012-07-24, 6:13pm
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I don't think it is accurate to say that the messy colours are incompatible. I have had some trouble with some colours when encasing them with Effetre clear, but I have trouble with some Effetre colours when encasing them with Effetre clear.

So... I think this statement that messy colours are incompatible is a generalization. I have noticed that the most recent batch of Effetre clear is very different from previous batches with regard to viscosity, too. What colour are you encasing the Tuxedo with? Have you tried encasing the tuxedo with a different encasement glass?
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  #14  
Old 2012-07-24, 9:32pm
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I've experienced cracking when using Tuxedo as a base and encasing with Aether.
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  #15  
Old 2012-07-24, 9:39pm
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My Tuxedo cracks no matter what clear I encase it with.

I only use it when I am not encasing. Tuxedo holds up well to repeated heating, marvering and pressing. No boiling, pitts or scumming.

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  #16  
Old 2012-07-25, 5:04pm
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Totally agree with Melanie.

I've never encased tuxedo to be honest so I can't speak on that. Hades yes.
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  #17  
Old 2012-07-26, 9:02pm
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I encased some tuxedo with moretti clear and so far no cracks at all.
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Old 2012-07-28, 9:07pm
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I have used both effetre and lauscha to encase tuxedo recently and still no cracks so far.
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  #19  
Old 2012-07-29, 2:22pm
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Regarding CIM and incompatibility, the issues I had were all with unencased beads. It's not just the encasing.

Sorry Michelle, you asked me about encasing black way back in this thread -- the odd time I do encase, if the base is black I just use Effetre. Never had a problem with it.
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Old 2012-07-29, 9:21pm
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I made two encased florals (Aether) with a core of Tuxedo today. I'll let you know what happens!

To tempt fate, and because I'm getting ready for an event next weekend, I used the following colours in the flower petals: Lipstick Unique #2, Candy Apple Red, Orange Sherbet, Tandoori, Banana Cream, Apple Green, Emerald City, Earth, Indigo, Grape Ape and a super dark purple transparent limited run whose name escapes me. A fun mix of CiM, Lauscha and Vetrofond.
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  #21  
Old 2012-07-30, 12:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishBulb View Post
Regarding CIM and incompatibility, the issues I had were all with unencased beads. It's not just the encasing.

Sorry Michelle, you asked me about encasing black way back in this thread -- the odd time I do encase, if the base is black I just use Effetre. Never had a problem with it.
Were those the ones with crocus? I don't mix opalinos with non opalinos with CIM or any other brand without caution.
If not those beads I've never had issues when not encasing, I don't anneal any higher, I treat it as any other brand.

I'm sorry in advance, it just sort of rubs me to diss a whole line when others have not had problems, newbies will miss out on some gorgeous glass if this is what they read you know?

I don't encase often, but as said I do Hades, I don't own any Tuxedo.
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Old 2012-07-30, 5:20am
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The Crocus ones were one of several different CIM beads that have cracked on me. Another was when I put Sangre on top of Effetre Clear (ON TOP OF, not underneath) -- big old cracks everywhere.

I'm sitting here trying to remember the other two examples, but can't at the moment. They weren't the usual issues with blues though.

I do remember comments a few years ago from people who were having cracking issues with Leaky Pen. One lady messaged me to tell me her pendants all developed cracks weeks after being in a store and all had to be thrown out. That's probably another one of those colours that needs to be annealed at a higher temp.

Like I said earlier in the thread, Kathy from CIM suggested annealing at no lower than 990. People who want to use CIM might want to keep that in mind. Me, I just use other glass.

I may be dissing the line because I'm annoyed at compatibility issues that I simply haven't experienced with any other glass, so it's not like I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm also mentioning what Kathy suggested so other people can keep that in mind. With some of my beads and CIM combos the cracks didn't appear until after a year, and it sets my teeth on edge to know that some of my work is out there with cracks in it.

ETA: I've also read several glass workers' complaints on Facebook of CIM beads cracking, so I know it's not just me. These issues were with other colours in the line that I've never even used, and again not the blues that are supposed to be annealed at 1040.
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  #23  
Old 2012-07-30, 12:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oenone View Post
I made two encased florals (Aether) with a core of Tuxedo today. I'll let you know what happens!

To tempt fate, and because I'm getting ready for an event next weekend, I used the following colours in the flower petals: Lipstick Unique #2, Candy Apple Red, Orange Sherbet, Tandoori, Banana Cream, Apple Green, Emerald City, Earth, Indigo, Grape Ape and a super dark purple transparent limited run whose name escapes me. A fun mix of CiM, Lauscha and Vetrofond.
I don't have pictures (just pulled them out of the kiln this morning, and now I'm at work, but there are no cracks in my beads. I'll keep an eye on them this week, but they look fine.

I garage at 930, and anneal for 1 hour at 968 before ramping down at 50 degrees per hour to 700, and then 100 degrees per hour to 400 and switching off. I don't know what your annealing schedule is, but maybe it is the problem?
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Old 2012-07-30, 1:59pm
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Mine is similar except I garage and anneal for an hour both at 940, ramp down 50 per hour to 870 where they sit for half an hour, then ramp down again to 680 for half an hour (my Jim Kervin book says the 104 stress point is at 680, this forum says 870, so I do both) then down to 400 and off.

It seems to be like Lauscha, some people can use it fine and mix it with other glass and never have a problem and some people do. I think the CIM line has some of the most beautiful colours anywhere and I wish I was one of those people who could work it without issue, but sadly that's not the case.
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Old 2012-07-30, 10:30pm
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Michelle I noticed you said Kryptonite also, that is an opal (opalino) and while I don't know if it can not be encased, I do not because it is an opalino.
What clear? I have a few and will try also.

Fishbulb I understand you've had issues, and only I'm trying to say that others that may want to try it might want to keep in mind that others do not have problems with CIM.

My schedule is the same as Melanie's as well, my kiln is heating up, I will make a few with different clears.
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  #26  
Old 2012-07-31, 5:44am
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I get what you're saying Ravenesque. In the past I'd commiserated with people in private when they posted here or on FB complaining about cracking CIM because I know CIM is very highly regarded, but with this most recent post I figured I'd better speak out loud.

If nothing else, new people will know there may be issues and to keep it in mind. It isn't just me having these problems. I've seen people on Facebook waste an entire day on the torch only to have the whole load crack when they were being cleaned. I've seen people complain their customers are contacting them, saying their beads are developing cracks.

People should also know if they do have issues then they can always contact Kathy, the US rep for the company. They do have good customer service.

There were incompatibility problems with a variety of blues in 2008 or 2009, people spoke up, CIM did some further testing and found an annealing temp of 1040 worked better for those colours (Halong Bay, Peacock and Leaky Pen). Maybe if people continue to speak up then it'll give CIM the opportunity to iron out the wrinkles, so to speak.
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  #27  
Old 2012-08-16, 6:14am
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after going back and checking beads made with tuxedo 2-3 weeks ago, it appears the ones that are encased fairly thick have cracked and the ones that are thinly encased did not crack.
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Old 2012-08-21, 5:22am
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I am new, so I don't know nothing.

I recently posted about the same problem. I used the tuxedo and encased and almost every bead cracked. The tuxedo by itself came out great. I switched to Hades and so far so good.

Made me sad. Being new even the uglies are a masterpiece. LOL
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