How to achive an intense black without the bleeding problem ...

Art of Hand · #1 2008-08-26, 2:13am

This has bugged me for a long time. I used the tecnique of covering a dark cobalt blue with black transparent, but with very thin hairline stringer, I could not get a real black black, as the blue came thru. So back to the drawingboard. How do I get intense black without the bleeding, and not wanting to order more black from other manufactures?

Well, what about encasing Intense black with transparent black????

IT works! You can pull the thinnest tread with it, no bleeding; except ocasionally at the beginning/end of the stringer line, but that is easy to cover-up with a tiny dot of normal tranp black.

I would love to hear feedback, and if anyone else is using this method. Also, if it worked, please let me know! Show pics if you want! I am at work today, otherwise I would have posted a pic or 2.

Diana

Sharon Abood · #2 2008-08-26, 3:52am

Thank you for the tip. I will try it.

KayG7 · #3 2008-08-26, 5:46am

Try pulling stringers from Moretti compatible black cullet -- great stuff!!! Good, stiff black with no bleeding. Learned this one from Larry Scott.

GinnyHampton · #4 2008-08-26, 6:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by KayG7

Try pulling stringers from Moretti compatible black cullet -- great stuff!!! Good, stiff black with no bleeding. Learned this one from Larry Scott.

Yup! I was going to suggest this too, it works great

I think you buy it at Arrow Springs . . . but correct me if I'm wrong!

Art of Hand · #5 2008-08-26, 6:32am

Never heard of that one, Kayg7!

I have limited acess to glass, and my stash of 40 odd kilogram 104 COE dare not increase. I already get the jeebies when I look at it and the cost involved. So I basically had to look at what I have, and adapt that to my needs. I work with really fine stringer a lot and ordinary black trans just did not work, but neither did intense black, as it will spider the moment it is that thin. Anyway, that was when I decided to combine the 2, using each black's best qualities, and hide it's worse. And it works.

Diana

Moth · #6 2008-08-26, 6:36am

Diana, great tip, thanks! I have encased the intense black with clear before to keep it from bleeding, but it leaves an outline around the black which isnt' attractive. Using the black transparent would be much better.

I don't use much hair thin stringer so I've never really experimented too much about the black, but I will surely remember your tip the next time I'm making something that needs thin black lines.

Take care.
~~Mary

Anne Ricketts · #7 2008-08-26, 6:44am

I use vetrofond black, much more intense than the moretti black and it doesn't bleed like the moretti.

Anne Ricketts · #8 2008-08-26, 7:47am

Yeppers!

Carlabeads · #9 2008-08-26, 9:20am

I hate Vetrofond black because I get a nasty haze on it if it stays in the flame too long, and a lot of my beads take at least 30 mins to make... In very small amounts it's ok, but if i'm using it as the primary or base color of a bead, forget it. Yuck.

LaurieBSmith · #10 2008-08-26, 9:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlabeads

I hate Vetrofond black because I get a nasty haze on it if it stays in the flame too long, and a lot of my beads take at least 30 mins to make... In very small amounts it's ok, but if i'm using it as the primary or base color of a bead, forget it. Yuck.

I am glad you said that....I have that problem as well. Makes me feel better than I am not alone...and that's it's probably not me!

Anne Ricketts · #11 2008-08-26, 9:32am

I don't use it for my base because of that, I use it for my stringer work. I use moretti black for my bases.

swamper · #12 2008-08-26, 9:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anne Ricketts

I don't use it for my base because of that, I use it for my stringer work. I use moretti black for my bases.

Now see I'm totally opposite. My vetrofond makes great base beads but my Moretti pits - I've been told to get my graphite marver hotter to avoid this but geeze it hisses now if I put it in the water. I don't know how I cold get it it hotter. I know I don't have them mixed as there are tags on them.

Also, I had a batch of Moretti black that behaved like Moretti Dark Silver Plum - it got a silver sheen on it if my flame was too oxydizing.

Carlabeads · #13 2008-08-26, 3:39pm

That's weird Linda... this is exactly how the Vetrofond acts for me (and i've heard of several other people that have this same problem). The silver haze and boiling/pitting.

NLC Beads · #14 2008-08-26, 3:52pm

*raises hand* You're describing why I unloaded every bit of my Vetro black, hate the stuff... Moretti sometimes turns a bit silverish, but not too bad.

Thanks for the tip on keeping black black, though!

KayG7 · #15 2008-08-26, 7:39pm

CRLoo has Moretti compatible black cullet -- super cheap, espcecially if you buy in quantity......

http://www.crloo.com/Products/Lampwo...effetre_5.html

Beadanna · #16 2008-08-27, 2:15am

Time for a cullet bulk buy anyone? I won't be doing it as I am not in the US. Oh and repacking it might be a challenge.
$2.45 per lb for 100lbs+ from CRLoo. $3.16 for 30+ lbs. $4.89 per lb.
Sounds like a good deal if anyone was interested in doing it.

Anna

swamper · #17 2008-08-27, 3:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlabeads

That's weird Linda... this is exactly how the Vetrofond acts for me (and i've heard of several other people that have this same problem). The silver haze and boiling/pitting.

That is totally wierd - tonight I will grab a rod of each that are labeled and check it out - maybe I am dis-remembering.

If anyone does a bulk buy for black 104 cullet, I'm in for a few pounds.

ziggys · #18 2008-08-27, 2:50pm

Linda, I would love to hear what you find out. I thought I loved my Vetrofond!!! I switched a long time ago. Still have a couple Moretti rods but thought I always grabbed the Vetrofond black for big base beads with lots and lots of dots, that I work a long time. No pitting, etc. Maybe there are good and bad batches?

I would hate to spend an hour (or more) making another one only to see the problems others have had. (This is one of those sets that will take me about 10 years to complete as I only make about one a year. )
Please let us know! Thanks!

Frit Diva · #19 2008-08-29, 2:57pm

Diana~ What a smart idea! I'm partial to solutions that use glass I already have.

I also have problems with moretti black as a base if I let it overheat at all, so I just keep it out of the flame, that seems to work pretty well for me. Direct fire is what seems to make it pit.

Linda, you put your graphite paddle into water to cool it? Wow, what planet have I been on?! I was taught to avoid getting my paddles and graphite tools wet, that it would stress them and they'd eventually crack. Anybody else ever heard this? Of course, I was told this back in the dark ages of lampworking, 15 years ago... on the other hand, I still have my original graphite paddle.... LOL!

Jo

Kybeadmaker · #20 2008-08-30, 11:14am

I've always used the Vetrofond because it stays black and never had a problem with hazing until I used a rod from a new batch last night. Big haze problem, but it went away in the kiln...go figure.

beadgirl · #21 2008-08-30, 1:29pm

I am so glad I found this tread!
Moretti Black has a silver sheen to it some times. Bought it about 6 months ago.
The latest batch (2 months ago) I got will pit if using graphite. Or the bead
takes along time to make.
I heat the graphite in the flame then paddle it. Then re-interduce it in the flame slowly.
And bathe it slowly to keep pitting from happening.
Could it be my torch? Bobcat

What is cullet??

Moth · #22 2008-08-31, 3:51pm

Yeah, I've never heard of anyone dunking their graphite tools in water. We aren't supposed to be putting them into the flame to begin with. However, I've been guilty of it on occasion. LOL Just a quick flash...you know.

swurlgurl · #23 2008-09-01, 4:39pm

I have found that CIM hades doesnt bleed. iono, maybe i have just been lucky with it.