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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #1  
Old 2012-04-21, 6:05pm
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Default Cheetah driving me crazy

I am really going crazy. I have a beautiful Cheetah torch that I cannot used. I just can't get used to the flame and I am not sure if it is me, the torch, or both.

The flame is much bushier than that of a minor right? It runs so hot, that I can't even hold my mandrel without my hand burning. I am totally unfamiliar with the triple mix. Is there a way of knowing if it is running properly? I thought it would be better for boro, but it have a much easier time on my minor.

The oxygen valves really do not pull the flame in much at all. I would think it would give me a tighter flame with the second oxygen valve.

Your help is so needed and appreciated.

Thanks,
Cheryl
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  #2  
Old 2012-04-22, 1:37am
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It is much wider and hotter than the minor. You should be able to get a finer flame using the blue knob. I start by lighting the torch small propane flame then use only the blue knob to get a very small flame. But remember you are running 13 jets. Then I turn up the propane and add the green oxgen knob. You will not be able to get a real small pinpoint flame like you can on a Lynx. I ran propane at 5 -7 and oxy at 25. I used it for both soft and boro beads. Sounds like you are raging it. You should be able to use it and not burn your hand. Longer mandrels?

I upgraded to a Mirage and really like the fine flame I can get on the Lynx centerfire.
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  #3  
Old 2012-04-22, 5:21am
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Thanks Dave,
I will try that today. I was hoping for more feedback being a newbie with the bigger torch is so frustrating. I am seriously thinking of selling it and getting something with the center jets like the Lynx. I watched a you tube video and it seems like the only way to get the flame I am looking for is with the center jets. I never even noticed the Cheetah did not have this until I watched the clips. Does the Lynx melt the boro any better than a Minor?

I appreciate your help.
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  #4  
Old 2012-04-22, 6:18am
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The Lynx will definitely melt the boro!! I had one but found it difficult to do soft glass with so I sold it and bought the Scorpion which I love!!! I do both soft and boro on it. It doesn't get the pinpoint flame like the Lynx did but the tradeoff was worth it. If your used to using a minor, it will take a little getting used to. Start with a SMALL flame until you are comfortable. They are great torches!!!
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  #5  
Old 2012-04-22, 6:35am
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What O2 supply are you using? Is it enough for that torch? the cheetah uses more O2 then my scorpion. I own both torches. Maybe the torch does not have enough O2 to push the flame forward....
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  #6  
Old 2012-04-22, 6:40am
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Yeah, GTT torches are known for their "thrusting" flame and less radiant heat than other torches. Seems like something's wrong.

The Cheetah is basically a lynx with another ring of jets, if I recall correctly, but it should be ideal for working boro. My lynx is a workhorse as well, bigger than than the minor, much hotter, and well able to handle smaller boro pieces.
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  #7  
Old 2012-04-22, 10:59am
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I use the Lynx centerfire of my Mirage 90 percent of the time. Some days I never kick on the second stage at all. So yes, it will melt boro easily. You can get a nice bushy flame on a GTT it just takes some getting used to. Once the torch is running, I turn the blue knob off get about an inch of white candles above the 3/4 inch of blue then just crack the blue knob until the white is just about gone. You always need to have the blue knob at least cracked. I got the hang of this in a Kobuki class where you need a bushy flame. If you blow towards the flame you should see it move.
When I first moved from the Cricket to the Cheetah I would go back to the Cricket for soft glass. Once I got the hang of setting the different flame characteristics, I started using the Cheetah and now Mirage for both soft and boro.

LyndaJ uses a Cheetah and has for a long time. You might want to PM her.
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  #8  
Old 2012-04-23, 9:23am
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I use my cheetah for fine work all the time.
I first open the fuel (red) then ignite open the green until you have a nuetral flame then I open the blue valve while slowly closing the the green valve do not close it all the way. some times you need to back off on the red valve a bit to get the sharpest flame. there is a bit of back and forth with the green valve to get the best balance of sharpnes whithout over thrust
I started on a mega minor and I find the cheetah to be a much better torch
I find it cooler on the fingers to work higher up in the flame and to use longer mandrels
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  #9  
Old 2012-04-23, 12:20pm
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Hi Morgan,

Is that a picture of the Cheetah running? If so, there is something wrong with me. What do you run it on. An earlier post suggested I may not be running it with enough oxygen power. I am using two 5 concentrators, each set on 3 1/2. I have ran it on oxygen before though and stop using it for the same reasons. It is a beautiful torch, barely used so I hate that I am not able to enjoy it.

Thanks so much for your reply.
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  #10  
Old 2012-04-23, 12:22pm
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Thanks to all for trying to help. I usually work in soft glass with a minor and have no issues there. This is so frustrating.
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  #11  
Old 2012-04-23, 12:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl View Post
Hi Morgan,

Is that a picture of the Cheetah running? If so, there is something wrong with me. What do you run it on. An earlier post suggested I may not be running it with enough oxygen power. I am using two 5 concentrators, each set on 3 1/2. I have ran it on oxygen before though and stop using it for the same reasons. It is a beautiful torch, barely used so I hate that I am not able to enjoy it.

Thanks so much for your reply.
Yes that is my Cheetah, the concentrators are your problem I can run mine at about 1/2 to 3/4 power on two m20's but that flame in the pic is on tanks
the cheetah is desinged to run with 20psi oxy which the m-5's cannot deliver
if you are looking to replace your cheetah for a torch that can run on the m-5's I understand folks love the Bravo.
I love my Cheetah but it wants tanks to run at optimum
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  #12  
Old 2012-04-23, 12:42pm
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as you can see here it needs 20-25 lbs of oxy
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Old 2012-04-23, 2:12pm
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I had a feeling you were going to answer you had the small concentrators. I used mine on 2 M-20's but it still did not work well. Now I run a scorpion on the M-20's and my cheetah is on a shelf.
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  #14  
Old 2012-04-23, 2:13pm
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All GTT triple mix torches like high pressure oxy. The non-triple mix like the Cricket, Scorpion and Sidewinder were all designed for concentrators.
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  #15  
Old 2012-04-23, 2:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hangs Well View Post
All GTT triple mix torches like high pressure oxy. The non-triple mix like the Cricket, Scorpion and Sidewinder were all designed for concentrators.
What Dave said!!!!
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Old 2012-04-23, 2:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hangs Well View Post
All GTT triple mix torches like high pressure oxy. The non-triple mix like the Cricket, Scorpion and Sidewinder were all designed for concentrators.
Dang, I really want a Scorpion or a Bravo...

But the boss says two torches are enough.

She only uses the minor so has no empathy for my need
for HOTTER flame with better control than the midrange.

Next year... Next year...
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  #17  
Old 2012-04-23, 2:46pm
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Tell the boss you'll sell the old torch once you get a new one
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  #18  
Old 2012-04-23, 3:09pm
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^^^ THIS

that's the deal around my place, too, if I want something new that we already have, I have to sell, trade or otherwise get rid of the old thing. I apply this rule to most things and better yet is to get rid of 2 old things for every new thing that enters in the "our stuff" realm
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Old 2012-04-23, 7:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunyip View Post
Tell the boss you'll sell the old torch once you get a new one
I am going to try that...

The Midrange burned me today for discussing it's departure.

Just need to find buyer(s) for a clean Midrange plus and an almost new
Mega Minor..
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  #20  
Old 2012-04-23, 9:23pm
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seems like used torches hold value even on ebay
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  #21  
Old 2012-04-24, 5:46am
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Thanks Morgan....I have been to the GTT site and never noticed the oxygen pressure. The oxygen around me is so expensive. That is why I went with the concentrators. So that being said....

Could anyone tell me what torches would work for boro with two 5 LPM Oxycons and what they set there concentrators on in order to run them.

Does anyone know the shelf life on a Cheetah?

Last edited by Cheryl; 2012-04-24 at 5:55am. Reason: spacing
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  #22  
Old 2012-04-24, 7:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hangs Well View Post
All GTT triple mix torches like high pressure oxy. The non-triple mix like the Cricket, Scorpion and Sidewinder were all designed for concentrators.
GTT's scorpion should be ideal for your current setup.

Sell that cheetah and get a scorpion!

http://www.glasstorchtech.com/torches.html
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Old 2012-04-24, 7:37am
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Hey Chris,

In your opinion what is the advantage of the Scorpion over the Lynx that you are using? I noticed the Scorpion has the center flame of a Cricket that is why I'm asking. I really appreciate your input.

Cheryl
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Old 2012-04-24, 8:16am
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In your case, the main advantage of the Scorpion over the Lynx is that the scorpion is designed to run on your setup (2 5LPM concentrators). The Lynx is a triple-mix. It works on concentrators... but certainly not optimally. Kara uses the Lynx for soft glass (and loves it!), but I use my 'cuda on tanked oxy for boro for a reason.

Another advantage is that the Scorpion is a two stage torch - so definitely get the four stud. That way if you ever want to add a pedal, or run the outer ring on tanked oxygen (or both!) you can.

My "real" recommendation is to get a Phantom or a Mirage and use it on tanked oxy. The Lynx is ideal for smaller boro pieces up to 1.5" - and the outer ring kicks it up several notches. Since you said that's not an option, the Scorpion is great...or if you want to add more oxycons to your system you can really kick it up a notch or 2 and get the Sidewinder.
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Old 2012-04-24, 8:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl View Post
Thanks Morgan....I have been to the GTT site and never noticed the oxygen pressure. The oxygen around me is so expensive. That is why I went with the concentrators. So that being said....

Could anyone tell me what torches would work for boro with two 5 LPM Oxycons and what they set there concentrators on in order to run them.

Does anyone know the shelf life on a Cheetah?
by the way oxygen prices are very flexible when I first started flame working they charged me $40 a tank for 240cf but after going to several places and talking to each place I got them down eventually to $18 a tank that being said with the two of us we spent over $1500 on oxy last year so this year we got a couple of m20's but even with 2 feeding my cheetah they cannot compare to tanks I can do beads and small sculpture ok on the m20's but for marbles and my goddesses and blown work I use my tanks
oh and most GTT torches I have seen sold used are only at a small loss any where from $50 to $100 off of purchase price or some times not even that I watch ebay weekly for used torches and follow the GTT sales when they come up
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Old 2012-04-24, 9:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunyip View Post
In your case, the main advantage of the Scorpion over the Lynx is that the scorpion is designed to run on your setup (2 5LPM concentrators). The Lynx is a triple-mix. It works on concentrators... but certainly not optimally. Kara uses the Lynx for soft glass (and loves it!), but I use my 'cuda on tanked oxy for boro for a reason.

Another advantage is that the Scorpion is a two stage torch - so definitely get the four stud. That way if you ever want to add a pedal, or run the outer ring on tanked oxygen (or both!) you can.

My "real" recommendation is to get a Phantom or a Mirage and use it on tanked oxy. The Lynx is ideal for smaller boro pieces up to 1.5" - and the outer ring kicks it up several notches. Since you said that's not an option, the Scorpion is great...or if you want to add more oxycons to your system you can really kick it up a notch or 2 and get the Sidewinder.
Great advice, there. I started using just the Lynx centerfire on my Mirage on tanked Oxy which was fine for solid forms below 1.5" thick. Now as I progress towards 2" and bigger marbles and sculpture I am using the outerfire maybe 5% of the time to help with heating the whole mass up to temp as well as heating striking colors. Amazing the difference in color vibrance between minimal heat from the center and full outer as well. I now see what was intended with a lot of these silver glasses.
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Old 2012-04-25, 9:06am
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I own the scorpion and the sidewinder too.
I used my scorpion with an M-20 and an M-15. but sometimes I turn on my other M-20 and use all 3 with the scorpion. I do not think the scorpion will work with with 2 5"S...... You need more O2 then that to work well.

The sidewinder needs 3 high power concentrators..... The scorpion needs two.

You need 2 M-15's for the scorpion to work well. Mine gets hot as it is....

I also have used both the sidewinder and scorpion on tanks and that is even more powerful..... A dream to work with.
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  #28  
Old 2012-04-25, 3:16pm
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GTT disagrees with you Heather, though I can't speak from experience, I quote their website:

"The Scorpion was designed with concentrators, low pressure and low consumption in mind. The Scorpion runs great on one 10 LPM concentrator or two 5 LPM concentrators with the optimal setup being two 8 LPM concentrators or tanked oxygen. Oxygen consumption is 11 LPM (22 CFH) at the maximum flame size. It requires as low as ¼ psi to 5 psi of natural gas or propane with a low consumption rate of 1.5 LPM (3 CFH) at the maximum flame size..."

I'm guessing it will probably be much better than the Cheetah for her, regardless.
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Old 2012-04-29, 8:32am
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I work boro mostly, occasionally melt some 104. I could not imagine running a scorpion on any less than what I have, and be happy with it for boro. I run mine with 2 Regalia's and it is everything I need it to be. I run the Regalia's full on at 10, for everything.
I am very, very happy with this. I can do everything from tiny little stringer work on soft glass, to 2inch marbles. I tried running it with one Regalia, and it was weak for boro.
Sometimes less is not more.
The Scorpion was designed to work with the lower pressure of a concentrator. The Cheetah was not. Pressure means a lot, and any torch with the 3rd valve, like my Lynx has, is going to need
more pressure. I went from the Lynx to the scorpion and after I got used to it, I loved it. At first I missed my blue valve.
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Old 2012-04-29, 5:46pm
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How's your purity on those Regalias running at 10 LPM?
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