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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2008-06-09, 8:04am
Beadzz Beadzz is offline
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Default WTF!! I so don't get this, how is this possible?

I made this bead (based on Sherry's gorgeous Chaos beads) yesterday and now it has so it seems incompatible cracks and this is not the first time. Some time ago i made one using light ivory and that one also has a very strange crack. I didn't use anything weird or not compatible, just copper mesh, vetro purple, effetre fossil and diamond clear, sis on top. What is wrong here? Hope you all can see the cracks ok The top one goes from left to right, well as long as there is mesh. I have no clue, it isn't along the mandrel and i put it in the kiln while still glowing. Ok, now i see one more little crack. I've made one before using the same glass, only the fossil was something else, that one didn't crack. Someone knows what might cause this to happen?




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  #2  
Old 2008-06-09, 8:38am
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There was a bad batch of Diamond Clear. Any chance you got some of it. Beautiful bead, so sad that it cracked.
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...=diamond+clear
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  #3  
Old 2008-06-09, 8:48am
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I made a bunch of heart beads recently that were encased in Diamond clear, and they all cracked too - I am beginning to wonder if it was the Diamond clear. Either that, or I looked at them too long before I put them in the kiln - lol.
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  #4  
Old 2008-06-09, 8:55am
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cracks or no, that is one gorgeous bead!
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  #5  
Old 2008-06-09, 9:22am
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I don't know the answer but I'd try the same combination without the copper and see if it cracks. Then make a bead again and leave out one color each time to figure out if one of the colors is not compatible. Paula
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  #6  
Old 2008-06-09, 9:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaD View Post
I don't know the answer but I'd try the same combination without the copper and see if it cracks. Then make a bead again and leave out one color each time to figure out if one of the colors is not compatible. Paula
This is a good idea!

I've also found that in working with metal inclusions in glass that it is best to start your annealing cycle at a higher temperature with a longer soak time and a slower ramp down time.

For me that equates to soaking at 980 degrees for at least an hour after I have completed the last bead then ramping down at about 1 degree per minute until my kiln is at 600 degrees. Then my kiln shuts off and cooling continues as the kiln cools (my kiln is firebrick).

Metal has a much different COE than glass and it can get tricky to include it without getting incompatibility cracks.

Beautiful bead, by the way!
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  #7  
Old 2008-06-09, 10:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judi_B View Post
There was a bad batch of Diamond Clear. Any chance you got some of it. Beautiful bead, so sad that it cracked.
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...=diamond+clear
Yes Judi, thank you. I know about the bad batch and at that time i did buy Diamond clear. I've also bought a pound of "new" diamond clear because i don't want to use the older, probabely bad batch.
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  #8  
Old 2008-06-09, 11:00am
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Originally Posted by Jane P View Post
I made a bunch of heart beads recently that were encased in Diamond clear, and they all cracked too - I am beginning to wonder if it was the Diamond clear. Either that, or I looked at them too long before I put them in the kiln - lol.
Ooo, don't look too long at them, i did that myself a few times but then it gets a nice crack right along the mandrel
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  #9  
Old 2008-06-09, 11:03am
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I don't know the answer but I'd try the same combination without the copper and see if it cracks. Then make a bead again and leave out one color each time to figure out if one of the colors is not compatible. Paula
Thanks Paula, i'll do that. And i will also make one using the same glass but no Diamond clear, i'm gonna use Vetro crystal clear and see what happens.
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  #10  
Old 2008-06-09, 11:09am
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Originally Posted by MaryBeth View Post
This is a good idea!

I've also found that in working with metal inclusions in glass that it is best to start your annealing cycle at a higher temperature with a longer soak time and a slower ramp down time.

For me that equates to soaking at 980 degrees for at least an hour after I have completed the last bead then ramping down at about 1 degree per minute until my kiln is at 600 degrees. Then my kiln shuts off and cooling continues as the kiln cools (my kiln is firebrick).

Metal has a much different COE than glass and it can get tricky to include it without getting incompatibility cracks.

Beautiful bead, by the way!
Thank you too Mary Beth!
I do have a firebrick kiln and the soaking time is at least an hour after i've put the last bead in. Can't be the kiln and with this kind of cracks it must be the glass so tomorrow i'm going to try Paula's good idea.
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  #11  
Old 2008-06-09, 11:49am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beadzz View Post
Thank you too Mary Beth!
I do have a firebrick kiln and the soaking time is at least an hour after i've put the last bead in. Can't be the kiln and with this kind of cracks it must be the glass so tomorrow i'm going to try Paula's good idea.

So, then, what temp are you soaking at?
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  #12  
Old 2008-06-09, 1:30pm
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At about 945 because otherwise i'll loose color from my striking glass and end up with poop. I think my kiln gets too hot. I converted the celsius into fahrenheit
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  #13  
Old 2008-06-09, 8:13pm
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At about 945 because otherwise i'll loose color from my striking glass and end up with poop. I think my kiln gets too hot. I converted the celsius into fahrenheit
Ahhh! I can sympathize about the striking glass and too high of temps. I rarely use transparent red because it gets liverish at high kiln temps.

But, for large inclusions of metals in glass you really need to raise your kiln temp during the soaking phase.

Does your kiln store multiple programs? If so you could make things with your striking glass and anneal at the lower temps and run a different program with higher annealing temps when you want to use a lot of metal with your glass.
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  #14  
Old 2008-06-09, 8:27pm
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I've made hundreds of these beads, large and small, and the only time that I had a crack was when I used vetrofond light ivory under the copper. Just that one time, and the crack was evident immediately.

I don't raise my kiln temp at all, but I soak for a minimum of 2 hours. No breakage.
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  #15  
Old 2008-06-09, 8:39pm
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I have used copper mesh . . . not a lot but quite a few beads and since I make large beads, the copper mesh is fairly big too . . . and never had cracking problem annealing low. I garage and 890 and anneal at 920 for 1.75 hours since 99% of my beads contain silver glass (lots of striking ones). I don't think the temp contributed to your cracking, Tam . . . sounds like what Sherry suggests . . . Light Ivory may be the culprit.
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  #16  
Old 2008-06-11, 1:48am
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Thanks Sherry and Hayley for your answers
The one i described with the ivory, that was Effetre ivory and the one from the pics is Vetro purple (the odd one). It really has a "web" of incompatible cracks right now (only where the purple and mesh is). I made one yesterday with CIM Heffalump because i encased that one in Diamond clear a few times before and that went well, so i just took it out of the kiln and cleaned it, it looks just fine, hope it stays that way
I think it's the combo of the purple with the mesh, can't think of anything else what could have caused it. This week i'm going to make a spacer with the purple and some copper mesh and encase it and see what happens. I need some copper mesh, do you know where to get it at a good price?

Keep your fingers crossed please, i hope this one will be ok!
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  #17  
Old 2008-06-11, 2:22am
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Default Update, not good :(

The first crack is a fact. It goes from one side to the other, from mesh and glass to mesh and glass. I think i'm going to cry now , well almost or maybe for real. It took me quite some time to make this bead and i really thought it would work
I'm not so happy right now, will take pictures and post them here later, i'm possitive it has more cracks in a while..
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  #18  
Old 2008-06-11, 2:30pm
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if the vetro purple is an ODD lot, maybe it is not really 104?? it IS an odd lot??
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Old 2008-06-11, 3:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beadzz View Post
Thanks Sherry and Hayley for your answers
The one i described with the ivory, that was Effetre ivory and the one from the pics is Vetro purple (the odd one). It really has a "web" of incompatible cracks right now (only where the purple and mesh is). I made one yesterday with CIM Heffalump because i encased that one in Diamond clear a few times before and that went well, so i just took it out of the kiln and cleaned it, it looks just fine, hope it stays that way
I think it's the combo of the purple with the mesh, can't think of anything else what could have caused it. This week i'm going to make a spacer with the purple and some copper mesh and encase it and see what happens. I need some copper mesh, do you know where to get it at a good price?

Keep your fingers crossed please, i hope this one will be ok!
If you have a michael's craft store nearby you can get it there. Good Luck.
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  #20  
Old 2008-06-12, 1:53pm
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if the vetro purple is an ODD lot, maybe it is not really 104?? it IS an odd lot??
Yes, it's an odd:
791952 Vetrofond Dark Violet Pastel ODD
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  #21  
Old 2008-06-12, 6:39pm
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I have no insight but do have a question.

That is the coolest effect. Was there just a thread on how to push glass through mesh like that? How do you do it, if you don't mind sharing.

Thanks,
Sue
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  #22  
Old 2008-06-13, 12:52pm
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Here's a link for you to look at Sue: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=92271 and Sherry is busy making a tutorial
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  #23  
Old 2008-06-14, 10:16am
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Bummer about the cracks! Beautiful bead. Just wanted to add that not all Michael's stores carry copper mesh. I've been to two in the Portland area and neither had it. I know Paula at FlameDame carries it.
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  #24  
Old 2008-06-14, 10:43am
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Bummer about the cracks! Beautiful bead. Just wanted to add that not all Michael's stores carry copper mesh. I've been to two in the Portland area and neither had it. I know Paula at FlameDame carries it.
Yep. It's discontinued at my local Michaels, but when I was in Alberta, they had loads of it, so I'm pretty much stocked up for life, lol. I'm guessing they change their stock depending on the local market?

But it is available at Dick Blick, it's actually sold as armature material.
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Old 2008-06-14, 10:50am
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Bummer about the cracks! Beautiful bead. Just wanted to add that not all Michael's stores carry copper mesh. I've been to two in the Portland area and neither had it. I know Paula at FlameDame carries it.
And I've been putting it in goodie bags this month for peeps...

Paula
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Old 2008-06-15, 5:11pm
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I tried my local Joann's for the copper mesh yesterday and they have discontinued it also. Went ahead and ordered it from Paula when I got home. Guess I'll have to wait until next weekend to play.

About the cracks, are we sure it's not the clear? I will have to try to remember not to use the light ivory also.
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  #27  
Old 2008-06-19, 2:44am
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I'll post a pic of the bead i told had 1 crack, it still has that 1 crack. It runs through the middle, from mesh to mesh only were the clear is.



I was really getting pissed about it yesterday so i made 2 other ones but using another clear. The Vetro crystal clear i just bought is scumming , i cleaned it before use and melted it, saw scum and got the 1st blob off with tweezers but nothing helped so i got a rod i had lying around for some time now, flex clear. I made both of them with flex and got the beads out of the kiln this morning and they are still in 1 piece. Lets hope this is the solution, i would be really happy.
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  #28  
Old 2008-06-19, 7:17am
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YEAH!! My beads have no cracks, now i need to find me some copper mesh
Was it the clear or not, i don't know but i keep using the Flex clear from now on for my mesh beads.
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  #29  
Old 2008-06-19, 9:19am
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I don't think it's the clear. Heather posted a photo of copper mesh over ivory with Lauscha clear in the sales rack so I am thinking that your purple coe is off. I'd be very careful with the Flex clear. The only way a clear can cross so many different coe's is to have a lot of lead in it.
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