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Safety -- Make sure you are safe! |
2012-04-09, 1:20pm
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ScrapSurfGlassPaddleSew
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,223
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Do I actually need a hood?
Okay, we have the fan in the wall, the insulation and paneling is up, and we'll be putting the loft floor/torch alcove ceiling in this week. Here's the picture (taken before walls, unfortunately) with the bench painted in to show how it will look when it's finished.
So the area above the bench, below the loft, and between the side walls is essentially a box measuring 7.5' wide, 3' high, and 2 1/2' deep. The fan is centered between the 2 torches, just to the right of center, 4" below the ceiling.
The fan is 3 speed, and claims to run from a low of 1350CFM to a high of 2280CFM. (Here's the link to the fan: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hv...hutter-3-speed )
So, my question is this: Given that the bench enclosure basically amounts to a 56 cubic foot box, and assuming the fan produces any where near the advertised CFM, do I actually need any kind of hood? Or will the fan just pull enough air without one? There's no loss to ducting - it's straight through the wall to the outside.
Obviously, once the bench is in I'll do a smoke test to see, but just curious what ya'll think.
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Pat The journey is the reward To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. L-111
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2012-04-09, 1:59pm
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Salt Box Beads
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Join Date: Oct 23, 2005
Location: Heading to Paradise
Posts: 4,161
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Pat, it is about capturing the fumes and then extracting them. A Barley type box or open faced hood with a front baffle ideal for this.
You can do anything else you want but most safety gurus and in depth tests show the above to be the best extraction system
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2012-04-09, 4:36pm
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Queen Bee
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Join Date: Oct 26, 2008
Location: Ellington, CT
Posts: 1,253
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I'm interested in this answer as well - if you have a barley box, can't you have the ducting come out straight through the top of the Barley box and eliminate the need for a hood?
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Donna
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2012-04-09, 4:39pm
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Salt Box Beads
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Join Date: Oct 23, 2005
Location: Heading to Paradise
Posts: 4,161
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Barley box is synonymous with hood. A hood really is likened to a stove range hood or other over head fume capturing system. A Barley Box style hood enclosure is an exaggerated hood system.
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2012-04-09, 6:46pm
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Curmudgeon Engineering
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Join Date: Feb 15, 2006
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,723
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The cubic feet of the 'hood' is not what you base the fan size on. Base it on the square feet of opening. Thus you have 22.5 (7.5 X 3) square feet X the minumum accepted factor of 100 and you get 2250 CFM fan needed. If you were to drop a 1' (12") curtin from the ceiling all the way across just in a little from where your head will be you have only 15 square feet X 100 = 1500 CFM. Very close to your fan specs. Depending on your height the curtin may or may not get in your way...and it provides a convenient place to hang tools and stuff.
And/or perhaps a storage unit on each side against the walls to cut the measurment down by another 2 feet. Then you have 5.5 x 2 x 100 = 1100 CFM or 5.5 x 3 x 100 = 1600 CFM. All very close to what your fan size is.
Sometimes we get hung up on definitions and don't see the obvious that the constrained end of your studio is in fact a sort of hood. Sounds like it will work to me.
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2012-05-21, 3:58am
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ScrapSurfGlassPaddleSew
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,223
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Oh, yeah, it works!
Final update on the fan installation - it works INCREDIBLY well! It passes the smoke test even on the lowest speed, and on the high speed it's amazing.
Here's a pic of the finished installation - for more see the studio thread here:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=220718
I walked past that end of the shed outside while the fan was running the other night, to turn off the propane at the tank, and thought "Man, the wind is really whipping out here" - then realized it wasn't the wind, it was the fan!
VERY happy with how this worked out! And thanks again to you safety mavens for making me aware of the importance of getting this right, and for all the help navigating through the process.
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Pat The journey is the reward To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. L-111
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2012-05-21, 10:08am
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Curmudgeon Engineering
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Join Date: Feb 15, 2006
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,723
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That's looking good!
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2012-05-22, 9:17am
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honorary bead lady
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Join Date: Jan 14, 2008
Location: Mostly the doghouse
Posts: 5,180
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Just a heads up, your shed is covered with OSB smart panel siding
MAKE SURE that all the cut edges around the fan are caulked and painted, also make sure that the bottom edge of the panels are painted
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2012-05-23, 4:26am
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ScrapSurfGlassPaddleSew
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,223
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David - we've been really careful about sealing any openings. This is actually the 12th one of these Amish barns we've purchased, so we've had a lot of experience with the siding. We have another tall barn at the house - Hubby's shed is 12x24 - and we've been involved with the purchase of 10 more for a gun club we belong to. Some of them are over 15 years old, and they hold up incredibly well here, especially given our horrible climate. The only thing that tends to fail is the plywood doors - they eventually start to warp.
But then, my shed is the only one of the lot that has all the exposed wood painted out, all the rest have been left plain wood on the interior, other than the floors.
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Pat The journey is the reward To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. L-111
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2012-05-23, 1:20pm
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Queen Bee
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Join Date: Oct 26, 2008
Location: Ellington, CT
Posts: 1,253
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So, just to clarify, is the answer "no" you do not need a hood? And if so, is it because you are using a hothead, rather than a full size torch and doing boro, etc? Or is the set up sufficient as it is for the size of the studio? I have a 12 x16 shed I'm finishing off, and it has come to a stand still because I'm unsure what to do for ventilation. Thanks!
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2012-05-24, 12:24pm
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Curmudgeon Engineering
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Join Date: Feb 15, 2006
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,723
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Donna,
From what I read you do not need a hood. The Barley box serves that purpose.
The purpose of a hood is to more effectively 'collect' the contaminated air and direct it to the exhaust fan/ducting most efficiently. The size of the studio really has no bearing on the hood size nor does the type of torch. Maybe think of it this way. The hood is an inverted funnel that leads to the outside where bad stuff is disbursed and diluted. The torch is a container of contaminants that flows upward due to the heat effect and to the air flow induced by the fan. The funnel needs to be only large enough to catch all the flow. The flow needs to be only large enough that contaminants don't escape and mix back into your air. Notice I said your air. Ventilation is for your benefit... to keep your breathing air clean.
Not sure this makes any sence, I hope so.
PJH
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2012-05-24, 4:31pm
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Queen Bee
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Join Date: Oct 26, 2008
Location: Ellington, CT
Posts: 1,253
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Yes, thanks, it does make sense. I always thought you needed either a hood or a Barley box, but it appears the set up above has neither, and is still deemed a working solution. Which is why I was wondering
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Donna
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2012-05-29, 5:35pm
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Queen Bee
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Join Date: Oct 26, 2008
Location: Ellington, CT
Posts: 1,253
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Nobody has an opinion? Would love to hear some, as I need to order my ventilation asap, and am considering this set up
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Donna
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2012-05-30, 9:09am
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Curmudgeon Engineering
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Join Date: Feb 15, 2006
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,723
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Donna,
The setup above does not need a hood because the space is narrow, the bench extends the entire width of the room, and the ceiling is low enough and the fan big enough that the entire end of the room forms a 'hood' or confinement area as the above space does. This is a somewhat unique situation. Your studio, being 12' x 16', would not 'channel' the contaminants out of the working area.
I would;
A. Determine bench size. The actual working area of the bench if it is going to be larger than for one torch station; say 4' out of the center of an 8' or 12' bench as an example.
B. Size the hood to cover your working area wiith perhaps 6" setback in front for head room.
C. Calculate the CFM required based on the hood opening size and whether there are side curtins "Bailey Box style".
D. Fiqure out where the ducting, if needed, will go and how big it will be and how it will penetrate the walls, ceiling, window, etc.
E. Purchase a fan and ducting parts to meet the criteria above.
PJH
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2012-05-31, 6:46am
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Queen Bee
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Join Date: Oct 26, 2008
Location: Ellington, CT
Posts: 1,253
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Thanks so much! I didn't notice how narrow the above room was
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Donna
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Vintage & Contemporary Beads, Findings, Chains, Trinity Brass, Vintaj, Bead Tubing, Bobbins
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