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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2009-02-10, 2:53pm
rodeocowgirl85 rodeocowgirl85 is offline
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Wink Needing some informations ground up on setting up for lampworking.

Hi yall, I'm new here and I'm needing some information. I'll need all I can get!!! I'm wanting to start lampworking and I need to no what I need to start, whats the best torch to get, what kind of set up does the torch you recommend require, what kind of glass, tools, safty glasses and whatever else I've left out you can tell me I need to start I would really appreciate it! Thx
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  #2  
Old 2009-02-10, 3:08pm
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More than you ever wanted to know about glass Beadmaking
by James Kervin
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  #3  
Old 2009-02-10, 3:18pm
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If you go under the torch section you will find all kinds of info on torches. As far as glass you need to decide what your focus is going to be, beads? sculpture? both? Take a look around LE by searching specific terms, it just needs to be at least four letters long to search it. Just start cruising the threads and you will find a wealth of info. One recommendation I would make is that if you have not taken a beginning class and have the funds and time to do so it will pay for its self ten fold, I started from scratch just out of books and it's so much easier to learn by watching someone else. Good Luck, welcome to Lampwork Etc. and to a never ending addiction.
Donna
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  #4  
Old 2009-02-10, 3:56pm
rodeocowgirl85 rodeocowgirl85 is offline
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Well that's the problem I have been searching online for bout a week now and I can't decide on the stuff I've found. I was really hoping to get some information from people that have been doing lampworking and to hear what they had to say and what they suggested. I'm getting really frustrated with finding one thing and then I find another. If that makes any since.
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  #5  
Old 2009-02-10, 4:08pm
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that is why I suggested the book . It is a lot to learn the book I suggested has tons of information and it cost about $ 30. I think. Also there is a ton of information here keep reading it takes more than a week to figure out. Taking a class will connect you with local lampworkers maybe go to the local chapter of the ISGB meeting. Good luck.
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  #6  
Old 2009-02-10, 4:24pm
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See if you can find a studio nearby to take a class at & maybe rent torch time. That way you can play around without buying all the stuff & setting up a studio.
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  #7  
Old 2009-02-10, 4:55pm
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The thing is, if you ask five lampworkers what their favorite torch is, you'll probably get five different answers.

The book Yellowbird suggested is excellent, and a must-read IMO.

The next step is to figure out what kind of lampwork you want to do, and what your budget is for getting started. That way, when you have a question, you'll be able to give us some background information so we'll have a basis for answering.

It might be very helpful for you to look in the Gallery at other people's work, and when you see work that's along the lines of what you want to do, ask the maker what kind of torch and oxygen supply they use. Different torches have different working characteristics.
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  #8  
Old 2009-02-10, 7:54pm
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I would recommend going to page 1,(the last page), in all the threads starting here and the gallery. Not only can you see the progression of talent you see that most of your much admired lamp workers started out with the same questions. ALOT of questions can be answered by just scouting the beginning pages. And hell, sometimes this place gets boring, it brings in new ideas that you can springboard off of.

Just a thought! Good luck!
Gayle
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  #9  
Old 2009-02-10, 8:20pm
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I started with a hot head torch, MAPP gas (yellow canister) didy safety glasses, a window fan, 10 Effetrie rods - assorted colors, a few 3/32" mandrels, bucket o mud bead release, vermiculite in a crock pot. Oh, and I needed a friend handy to light the darn hot head for the first week!
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  #10  
Old 2009-02-10, 10:34pm
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Yup. . I was going to suggest a hothead too. Also, Cindy Jenkin's book "Making Glass Beads".
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  #11  
Old 2009-02-10, 11:35pm
rodeocowgirl85 rodeocowgirl85 is offline
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Thx desertglass that's the kind of answer I'm looking for. Ive read books and researched for a long time and I just want some personal opinions on the topic. And what I'm interested in is beads and sculptures. So everyone's opinion would help and I don't care how many let me in on what they have used. So basicly this is what I'm doing at the moment!
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  #12  
Old 2009-02-11, 12:11am
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Being rather new to this myself, and thinking about it for a few years (Kalera knows), finding a safe place to work is one of the first decisions to make. Maybe watch somebody make beads, take a class, read a lot of things, books, tutorials, etc. If you still want to do this, get a HotHead, MAPP gas/propylene or maybe even 1lb propane if you already have it, fiber blanket (I bought a kit locally from the lady I took the class from - support my local art business), some glass if you're not buying a kit that includes some, and start with the color rod (if you have an assortment) that you find the most ugly. If you have some beginner's luck you may be able to use those beads. I now have a pair of earrings in a color I really don't like very much. If you get Cindy Jenkins' book (second the recommendation), read from the beginning, especially if you don't take a class, and stick with the recommendation to practice. I'm still practicing, but I don't have much time to do so, so it takes a bit longer (but being a (software) engineer by job I also know you only get somewhere by persistence (we only make things once, one of a kind stuff, so it never gets boring, my last "thing" took 2 years, on the side to daily operations). I knew I was getting somewhere when I put my creation station together, put my arms on it and my hands started moving like they were holding a mandrel and a rod.

Start with the inexpensive glass colors, some may turn out to be your favorite (petroleum green is one of mine), you most likely going to waste (if you want to call it that) quite a bit. Watch the "garage sales" here (I'm sooo tempted by that minor, if it isn't gone already), I got my Cindy Jenkins book from there, as well as the "sales rack", I'm getting my dydymium glasses (I think you can torch without, if you have tropical daylight or summer daylight in the temperate zones, for some limited amount of time), some stringer, and my kiln from there, and I'm in email contact with JameyLynn (HoWaCo glass, see the sales rack) about an assortment of glass (being in Hawaii I want a safely packed but full flat rate USPS priority mail box).

To some extent I agree with Kalera, see what you want to make and go from there, but I also wouldn't get as heavily invested in e.g. boro until you know that you're going to stick with it (it IS addictive). I'd love that Minor, but for the time being I need more glass.

Being rather frugal on myself at least (you can find a lot more about me on the net, I have some side conditions - and for the time being I still have a rather well paying (in my book) full time job), I am taking this the "not too expensive" way.

As Kalera said (rephrased), if you ask 5 people you get 5 different answers. But I think most of us started on a HotHead, and you 'll want to have (and read) Cindy Jenkins' book (in my case: thanks again to Cindy Lee). I started with a new HotHead, but there are some available (for much less than I paid) here.
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  #13  
Old 2009-02-11, 12:32am
rodeocowgirl85 rodeocowgirl85 is offline
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Thx Maren for the advice. But you do need to wear those protective glasses because the glass gives off an invisible light that can cause cataracts. So its a good thing that you are getting them. Just don't work with out them! Be nice to your eye's! U only get one pair!!! And thx again!!!
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  #14  
Old 2009-02-11, 3:31am
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IMHO torching without any kind of glasses is jeopardizing your eyesight (at least get some goggles!), torching in the dark (my definition) without at least dydy's (for soft glass) is the same. Get yourself the eye protection you will need, and the more the better.

As the invisible light goes, I work at an Infrared telescope (UKIRT) and being a physicist/astronomer by education I know a few things about light (visible or not).
Which end of (in)visible are we talking about, and at what light levels? Your pupils will protect you to some extent, depending on your light level, but not from flying glass.
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  #15  
Old 2009-02-11, 8:19am
NMLinda NMLinda is offline
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Rodeocowgirl85 - I heartily second getting James Kervin's book. While Cindy Jenkins' book is also one of my faves, I would recomend starting out with James' book first, and start reading it back to front. It has one of the best, and most comprehensive safety sections of all of the books I've seen.

[quote=maren;2371703] I'm getting my dydymium glasses (I think you can torch without, if you have tropical daylight or summer daylight in the temperate zones, for some limited amount of time)QUOTE]

Maren, I must politely, but urgently disagree with your statement above and support Rodeocowgirl85's recommendation not to work without didys (or better). Have you had a chance to read James' book? If not, I would highly recommend it. He has a fairly extensive discussion of the impacts of various bands of both IR and UV light on the eye, not to mention the sodium flare line. On the basis of this and related information available to the glass community, I don't believe it is ever safe to torch without didymium or better spectral filtering glasses. While the effects are cumulative, it's impossible for any of us to know what our individual sensitivities are until the damage is done. I too have an engineering background, by the way. I've worked extensively in MMW and microwave frequency ranges and have built IR telescopes. As part of my job, I have had to understand the water absorption band characteristics at various frequencies and the impacts on the human body, so I consider myself knowledgeable, also. I was lucky to have come across James' book before I started torching, and, based on what I read, never torched without didy's or better. Given your technical background, I'm sure you will find James' book, and his sources, similarly enlightening.

Otherwise, I think Maren and the rest of the folks here have given you, rodeocowgirl85, excellent suggestions. Getting started with a sample pack (or a few inexpensive colors, as Maren suggests), a hot head with 1 lb canisters, didys, good ventilation (a discussion all by itself), mandrels and maybe a hand-held marver will at least give you a feel whether you want to pursue this. As was pointed out, a great many of us start out that way.

If you decide you want to take the next step, folks here have asked you some great questions and made some excellent recommendations. Torch upgrades are pretty specific to what you want to do next. There are many good choices, but which is right depends on what you want to do.

Linda
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  #16  
Old 2009-02-11, 8:22am
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Safety glasses no matter what you do, at least clear lens ones for soft glass work. Popping glass and shards flying about are NOT something you want in your eye... Being blind in one eye the rest of your life will not be fun..... Not embellishing anything here, its a simple truth...

As for Didymium or ACE safety glasses, this allows you to actually see the glass object you are creating in the flame by blocking the orange flair of light that surrounds the hot glass creation you are making and prevents you seeing the "details" of your work....

IF you work with the soft glass (soda lime) the infrared and ultraviolet emissions are rather low and will probably not have any effect on your vision (unless you have sensitive eyes), going to borosilicate (Pyrex) glass where the temperatures of glass is much hotter and the infrared and ultraviolet emissions are quite a bit stronger and you will need glasses with shaded lenses that block these emissions and that will protect your vision ....

IF you scrimp in this area alone, you will probably regret it for the rest of your life if you cause yourself any eye damage...

This is also a interesting read.....

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles2/10237/200/

Dale
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  #17  
Old 2009-02-11, 9:18am
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Dale,

Both you and Maren are correct that eye protection against flying shards is also very critical.

You and I must have read the technical info on eye health vs radiation bands differently. You have been a wonderful proponent of safety over the years and a superb source of excellent information. And while I agree that didymium and ACE glasses have been designed to enhance visibility against sodium flare, I must, however, and with respect, disagree with your statement

"IF you work with the soft glass (soda lime) the infrared and ultraviolet emissions are rather low and will probably not have any effect on your vision (unless you have sensitive eyes)"

From what I've read (both related to lampworking and for my job), some bands emitted by soda-lime glass are low, yes, but some are more easily absorbed by the eye and can, indeed, cause problems such as cataracts and ptyrgium. These eye health impacts can be cumulative and may not appear for some time. The last part of your statement, above, to me is the most critical: "unless you have sensitive eyes". It's hard for anyone to know at the get-go if they are sensitive or not. For that reason alone, I would advocate the conservative position of always advocating didys or ACEs.

With Respect
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  #18  
Old 2009-02-11, 1:21pm
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Rodeocowgirl, if you are interested in starting with a Hot Head, it will make the beginning setup that much less expensive.

I don't always suggest people start with a Hot Head, because they are quite different to use from oxy/propane torches, over time the fuel gets very expensive, and the limitations can be frustrating. They are, however, easy to learn with because they melt the glass more slowly, giving you more control, and they are vastly more affordable to start with.

Have you considered a starter kit from a place like Frantz?

http://www.frantzartglass.com/index....oducts_id=4407

They are very flexible about adding or removing items according to your needs, and are incredibly helpful.
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  #19  
Old 2009-02-11, 6:24pm
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Kalera, yea i hear you. I don't want to start out with a hot head torch though. What do you know about the bobcat torches?

Last edited by rodeocowgirl85; 2009-02-11 at 6:26pm.
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Old 2009-02-11, 6:37pm
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I love my minor. I have 2 oxycons hooked up to it.

I suggest taking a class if you can, just for getting to try the studio set up.

also, get good safety glasses. I was using regular lampwork glasses with magnifiers for a long time, and just spent $200 on prescription safety glasses and they are worth every penny. some people wear lampworking glasses over their prescriptions glasses and that works too.
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  #21  
Old 2009-02-11, 6:55pm
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Miahawk, thx for the info. I can't really get out and take classes on lampworking cuz i live in the middle of no were and i have no transportation. After my resent divorce I've had to move back in with my parents and the only transportation is the one vehicle we have and my mother uses it to go to work everyday. I did have transportation but in the middle of the divorce I got laid off from my job. So I just started picking up on my arts and craft business more and making money that way. So I do A LOT of online shopping and have a lot of spare time on my hands to learn new things!!! I have taught myself a lot of things on my own buy watching dvd's and reading books on different stuff and have been very successful in being a jewelry artist. But I want to take the next step in making my own beads and making sculptures by using lampworking. I have done some clay sculpting but I'd love to try it and be successful at it also with glass. I have taught myself to do just about anything I have wanted to. I already have the safety glasses. So I guess that's one out of a thousand things I can check off my list!! lol
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Old 2009-02-11, 7:01pm
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Oh and another questions to. I've looked at some kits online and they say this is all i need and nothing more to start lampworking! BUT. They don't say anything about getting a kiln. They say to use the cloth in the kit to slowly cool down the bead, but i have read in places were this is not the best way as the bead can crack. I know i need a kiln. I just no i do. Any suggestions on a particular kind? And all i need is a small one, maybe after I get good at this I'll buy a bigger one.
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  #23  
Old 2009-02-11, 8:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodeocowgirl85 View Post
Miahawk, thx for the info. I can't really get out and take classes on lampworking cuz i live in the middle of no were and i have no transportation.
There's also youtube (not everything on youtube that has glass bead making in it is meant as a tutorial though), and of course Joe from Avenueglass who you can watch torching live (also not necessarily a tutorial, but you can learn from watching).
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Old 2009-02-11, 9:36pm
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Oh trust me I've watch plenty of videos and it never gets old!!! I love youtube lol! Thanks Maren!
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Old 2009-02-11, 9:43pm
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OK, now we're getting somewhere; we know that you want to make beads and sculptures, that you already know you want an oxy-propane torch, and that you want to sell your work, so you'll need a kiln.

Have you done any research about whether you want to be using bottled oxygen or an oxygen concentrator? Do you have any idea of your starting budget for getting set up... will you be buying everything at once, or buying a bit at a time?

If I could have my ideal starter setup, I would probably go with natural gas and a good oxygen concentrator like the Regalia. I would shop for a starter torch that functions well on NG and one oxycon, such as a Cricket, a Minor, or a Minnow. With NG and an oxycon you don't need regulators, so that helps offset the cost of the oxycon.

I'd probably go to Mike at Glasshive for a kiln. He makes good ones at a very reasonable price. Or, if I had more to spend, I might go to Arrow Springs.

Then, you'll need glass, mandrels, bead release, and tools. Basic, can't-do-without starter tools for me would be a torch-mounted marver, a graphite paddle, a tungsten pick, and tweezers.
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Old 2009-02-11, 9:54pm
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I love my glasshive kiln. it does have to be on a circuit pretty much by itself, though. it will not run with my oxycons. I could run Kalera's chili pepper on the same circuit with my oxycons, but my glasshive kiln draws a bit more juice and Mike is awesome for explaining how to use it.

also, someone at the company servicing my oxycon suggested checking classifieds for oxycons, since when people pass away after having purchased one, they become one of those things that the family has to sell off and you can usually get them for a decent price.
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  #27  
Old 2009-02-11, 10:05pm
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I started on a HH but within a year I wanted a bigger torch. I wish I had of just went straight to the Minor on a Concentrator, but that is a budget thing.

If you have the ability money wise to start out on a Fuel/Oxy torch, do it.

If you want a small kiln there is the Chilli Pepper but personally for the money that one costs, I would just go for a Jen Ken or other comparable one. Not that there is anything wrong with the Pepper, its a money/space/ability to do other things, thing with me.

Safety is first though, therefore make sure you have all those ducks in a row first.

Good luck!

J
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  #28  
Old 2009-02-11, 10:07pm
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I strongly suggest that you find someone in your area and take a class before you invest in any expensive equipment and a kiln. It would be great if you could take a one on one class and get a good feel for the art. Many people think they would love to do lampworking but after taking a class find they cannot put their fingers so close to the flame and just don't like it. It was love at first sight for me, but I have tried to teach others and it was not for them. If you can find a good instructor, they will show and tell you everything you need to know about getting started and all of the safety information you will need. Books are great sources of information, but having someone show you how to hook up your torch to your oxygen and propane, check for leaks, bleed you lines, etc. is invaluable. Good luck!
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Old 2009-02-11, 10:08pm
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Oh and I could not do without my dental picks, marver and my tweezers!!!!!

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  #30  
Old 2009-02-11, 10:23pm
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lol - you sound like me a couple of months ago - too much information!

i read so much i was making beads in my sleep before i even ordered a torch!

count yourself lucky its not too expensive in the US to set up - a good kiln here is the best part of $2000!

my only advice would be to find somewhere convenient and safe to work - well ventilated but out of drafts, somewhere you can put all your stuff and not have to move it - that was my biggest problem
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