TAG - Is It Just Me....

Curly Irish Girl · #1 2009-02-28, 9:35pm

or does this glass present a real challenge to get reactions??? I've been doing flamework for about 7 yrs....but this stuff makes me feel like the first day at the torch...nothing seems to work!!! EEEEKKKKKK!!!!

nagibeads · #2 2009-02-28, 9:53pm

which colors are you having trouble with?

Curly Irish Girl · #3 2009-02-28, 9:57pm

All of them! Got a sample pack and am getting nothing....going to try using them over ivory tomorrow.....I really want some of those pink/blue/purple faded shadings!!!!!

Reenie · #4 2009-02-28, 10:17pm

Lynn,
Let me know what colors you are trying to work for tonite. I've got some tips somewhere here that will kind of give you a start to getting colors....
Or pm me

Elizabeth Beads · #5 2009-02-28, 11:17pm

It's not just you, there are two of us at least. I can't get Dalai Lama to strike and I can't get Taxco to reduce consistently. At least Taxco is a pretty blue green.

I do like Zeus and I have high hopes for Juno, Green Dalai and Cezanne.

likes to make glass stuff · #6 2009-03-01, 9:46am

It's not just you...I have great luck with DH glass, though! Really poor with Precision, also.

Troll Lover · #7 2009-03-01, 9:56am

I love the TAG colors, they work much better for me than some of the Precision colors

.

Lyn,, have you read the tips TAG gives on working their glass (you can find them on their website: http://www.taglass.com/working_ips_ricks.html)?

Kirima · #8 2009-03-01, 10:23am

I love them, too! But must admit that I've had the same problems when I first tried to make TAG glass do it's magic!

You can find hints in Hayley's Silver Exchange threads here in the patio section, too. Taxco reduces best for me when I turn the oxygen almost off and wave my bead at the tip of the reducing flame that is about 3 inches long. Give it some extra oxygen before, wait for a few seconds and then reduce, that might help as well. The striking colours had been a bit tricky on the Minor, whereas my new Cricket (running on propane and one 5l oxygen concentrator) strikes them like a dream.

Good luck!
Martina

Curly Irish Girl · #9 2009-03-01, 10:36am

I've read the tips....wish they had it in a format that I could print as my computer is not in my studio.....the format won't even allow for copy/paste.....call it a senior moment, but by the time I get out to the studio I've forgotten what it said about which glass!

Maybe I'm a DH girl....and that's great as I have a boodle and LOVE to work it and those beads sell FAST! I just really like to support as many of the great vendors that I can by purchasing their products. TAG is a beautiful glass/reaction for those that can make the magic happen....for me and my Mini CC and 2 oxycons, it just doesn't seem to be in the cards....but I'll keep trying until my sample pack is used up!

DesertDreamer · #10 2009-03-01, 10:54am

Try Taxco over transparent cobalt blue. Make your base bead, apply the Taxco as dots or stripes. Melt it in and reduce. Encasing is optional, and will give you different effects.

Taxco is also lovely as just a plain bead, lightly reduced.

JBeads · #11 2009-03-01, 12:17pm

You are not alone...............

Buttkiss here too.

I gave up after I finished the sample rods I got. Won't be ordering any. I am not a patient person and I like results now, without much fuss.

J

Kirima · #12 2009-03-01, 12:19pm

This might help as well:

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...&postcount=359

AND: of course Angel's new tutorial, it's excellent:

http://www.perlaperla.ch/main.html?src=%2F#4,0

Otter's Flame · #13 2009-03-01, 12:20pm

I have found that for whatever reason I have better results working TAG than any of the other brands. The tips section seemed to help but the tips on other brands of glass never seemed to work for me. Good luck and keep experimenting.

Otter

PaulaD · #14 2009-03-01, 1:20pm

I think that the biggest mistake people make with silver glass in general is that they don't let the bead cool enough before they strike or reduce it! Not that I am an expert but I have friends who are!
Hold your bead under the table and be sure the glow is gone.
Paula

killerbeedz1 · #15 2009-03-02, 12:28am

TAG is the most challenging silver glass color for me also. Almost burning through 1/4# of Taxco, I finally got it to work over black. It reduces beautifully by itself, but after taking it out of the kiln the next day or a couple of minutes later the reduction is gone. I've garaged and annealed anywhere from 880 degrees to 940 degrees and have also tried putting charcoal in my kiln. The reaction is the same. Also, just to mention, I do let it cool under the table before reducing or striking. I know some say to use dragons breath. That has not worked for me. I need a reducing flame with a little oxy added to get any results with most of my silver colors. Maybe it's because I use natural gas (with two oxycons). I don't know. TAG is the only silver glass that I have not been able to get consistent results with.

Firebrand Beads · #16 2009-03-02, 11:38am

Hi folks! Sorry, I was away at an event this weekend, and am just now getting caught up on this....

A couple of things: first of all, TAG glass is somewhat different than Double Helix, so if you apply your DH skills to ALL silver glass brands you may not get the results you want. I think our silver colors tend to reduce and strike more similarly to Precision colors. But I admit I spend most of my time with TAG so I would need to hear about that from someone else who uses all three on a regular basis.

Another thing to consider is your set-up. I have been hearing that people using natural gas are getting somewhat different results than the people using propane. I will need to spend hours comparing the two before I could really offer any hard evidence about how you work any specific color in NG vs Propane. I do know that Hothead users get different results, and it appears that concentrators vs tanked oxy makes a little difference too. SO -- bear in mind that all of my working knowledge of TAG comes from using PROPANE, and while I used to test using the tanked oxy more, I now use my M-15 nearly all the time. I still have the Minor burner I've been running since 1992, but for most of the last year have been using a loaner Mini CC , and most recently, last week or two, have been striking the glass on a Cricket I borrowed from a friend.

On my gigantic list of things to have done by yesterday, lol, is to add a FAQ section to the website and to add more detail to the Tips and Tricks. I include a hard paper copy of our working tips with all the glass we sell retail from the TAG factory, but when you buy it from a distributor they may not include the same information. And hey,

ANYONE who wants our tips and can't download them (that's on purpose, BTW, to limit copyright infringement) PLEASE PM ME IF YOU WANT AN E-ATTACHMENT OF OUR WORKING TIPS! I am HAPPY to send you a copy via e-mail.

Now, the Taxco does vary a bit from batch to batch. I occasionally have more trouble with some batches than others but if they don't pass my reducing test, they don't get released. (For those of you who do care, I do mark every bundle that I send to distributors with a batch number, so ask them for it if you want to know.) IN GENERAL I like to reduce Taxco when it is still glowing just a little bit. Reducing glass will take a reduction a little quicker when it is hotter than it does when it's cooloer -- however, with the Taxco there appears to be a limited window of too hot (and the effect doesn't stick, essentiall burns off from the heat on the inside) or too cool and it won't do much -- until all of a sudden you have been in the reducing flame too long, it is heating up quick, and BAM you have too much reduction and it's muddy and gaining some terra cotta. So for me, the delicate dance is to shape the bead, reheat the whole thing with 'insurance' heat so it's even, cool it until it is only barely glowing and then start the reduction.

OK, now that you have a better sense of my procedures... I personally prefer Taxco over a darker color. I get a lot of green when I use it over Ivory though, and that is a nice effect -- like all silver glasses you will get some nice veining efects from using them on dark ivory. SO I make the bead, shape, evenly reheat and then adjust my flame to about a 2 - 3 inch yellow candle. When the bead is down to a low glow, I reduce for a couple passes, then a quick flash of neutral, then oxy OFF and propane UP for the Dragon's Breath reduction. If you haven't heard of it, the HUGE bushy flame has lifted off the face of the torch, and you wave in the upper part of that. It's been described a dozen times on this forum, so I won't elaborate further.

So if you are having trouble with Taxco, consider that narrow window of best reduce-ability. If you still have problems, PM me and we'll work on some specific things.

Now - someone said they were having problems getting the beads to come out of the kiln looking like they did going in. Hayley (sa-LUTE!) has spent countless hours working out kiln cycles for annealing reduced silver colors, and at this point her info may be very useful to you. I don't have that problem with my little (ancient now!) bead kiln with the set-point 'dum-dum' controller but KILNS VARY WIDELY and so do pyrometers, so what works in my kiln may not work in yours -- and vice versa. Some people are getting good results from using activated charcoal in their kilns.

And finally, some of you are saying you are not getting much from Dalai Lama. That one does benefit from a deep heating cycle to start, like many of the opaque amber-purple striking 104 colors. The thing that takes getting used to is how long the heat remains in the bead. Striking only occurs when the glass has passed through a range of temperatures, from higher to lower. For me, if I heat the snot out of a Dalai bead, then wait and watch it under a lamp, I need to wait a LOT longer than just the usual time for set-up. Language is not serving me well this morning.... what I am trying to say is that if you know instinctively how long to let something cool down and quit being so soft before working it more, (for the glass to "set up") then for the Dalai lama you want to wait about TWICE AS LONG. Seriously, I'll have it under the lamp and I'm waaaaiting for it..... waaaaaaiting for it, and BAM! Suddenly I get the blush of amber on the tan. THEN striking the amber gives me blue and purples.

ANYWAY! I hate for anyone to go away unhappy. I seriously do have other things I need to be working on this morning, but you can always PM me, or e-mail me at jenny@taglass.com for personal assistance. I will say, however, that sometimes trying to put these things into words leaves things out. There really is no substitute for working the glass with someone over your shoulder who is trained to be looking for the little things you don't notice when you are absorbed with getting the bead round or not singeing your fingers!

So if you want me to come out to your studio for private lessons, hey! I love to travel.

But since that probably won't be happening, we can try to do it on e-mail.

Troll Lover · #17 2009-03-02, 11:45am

I played with some new TAG colors today, the first time I melted the rods. This is Cassis:

It really gets that blueberry color!

And this is Montreaux over clear. It's really transparant and I think it will look stunning over other colors as well. Pics don't do it justice:

I reduced it the same way I do all my silver reducing glass, only then a bit longer and I let it get a bit glow in the reducing flame (with DH colors, by then you'll overreduced the bead). My advice: just try and experiment! Heat it, cool it, reduce it with less oxy or more propane, experiment!

nagibeads · #18 2009-03-02, 11:51am

I can't find my Dalai Lama rods to try and see what the method is, but these are TAG Transcendental. I love this color and it is easy to strike once you figure out it needs alot of heat.

Troll Lover · #19 2009-03-02, 11:54am

Nagi, those ROCK!!!!

nagibeads · #20 2009-03-02, 11:57am

thank you Anouk!
Your beads are amazing too(as they always are--wow!)! I am loving the Cassis especially!! I gotta look and see if I have any

Kirima · #21 2009-03-02, 12:15pm

Wow, Denise, those look just amazing!!!

Martina

nagibeads · #22 2009-03-02, 12:17pm

thank you Martina!

Firebrand Beads · #23 2009-03-02, 1:15pm

WOW! Beautiful beads! I am so happy to see someone playing with the Cassis. That is a very very dense reducing color, and it stands up well to clear or white bases. Transcendental is similar to Tibet, and is a striking amber purple (yep, what Nagi said -- heat!) Thanks for posting your techniques, too, everyone!

Troll Lover · #24 2009-03-02, 1:18pm

I really love the Cassis, it was so easy to use too!

nagibeads · #25 2009-03-02, 2:20pm

interesting....I got more blues with Tibet--I'll have to try it again.
Will Transcendental be a regular color soon?
thanks!

Reenie · #26 2009-03-02, 2:34pm

That Chasis is beautiful but that Trans...whatever lol (Sorry Jenny) is really, really nice.

nagibeads · #27 2009-03-02, 4:10pm

Thanks!!!
they are the rods I got from you Irene!

I got myself all ready to make a specific bead last night and took a break to try this glass and now I am hooked on it.
Took me long enough to try it, huh? I think I bought them from you last year,was it? LOL! Why did I wait that long!?

Kirima · #28 2009-03-02, 4:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebrand Beads

......................Now - someone said they were having problems getting the beads to come out of the kiln looking like they did going in. Hayley (sa-LUTE!) has spent countless hours working out kiln cycles for annealing reduced silver colors, and at this point her info may be very useful to you. I don't have that problem with my little (ancient now!) bead kiln with the set-point 'dum-dum' controller but KILNS VARY WIDELY and so do pyrometers, so what works in my kiln may not work in yours -- and vice versa. Some people are getting good results from using activated charcoal in their kilns. ....................

-> Ciao Jenny, Saluti Hayley!

After spending countless hours searching for information about annealing information here on LE, I finally did the programming for my kiln and it works just perfectly fine (for me!), as well as for normal 104 glass as for the silver glasses. Thanks to whoever had posted information!!! Without it, I guess I'd still be sitting here and wondering how to do it..!

My kiln is a Paragon Bluebird. Orton Scenty Express 4.0.

I do anneal at a lower temperature & for a longer time. It's calculated for a diameter of about 1.75 - 2 inches or smaller:

- garage at 896°F / 480°C
- go up to 928°F / 498°C within 10 minutes
- hold 928°F / 498°C for 60 minutes
- go down to 850°F / 454°C within 90 minutes
- hold 850°F / 454°C for 20 minutes
- go down to room temperature within 150 minutes (or just turn the kiln off)

I hope this helps!
Martina

Firebrand Beads · #29 2009-03-02, 7:08pm

Thanks, Martina!
I do like to make sure I can get results with an idiot-proof controller and simple kiln, though, because I am a lazy beadmaker, advocating for other lazy beadmakers, lol!

Where's the smiley of lounging on the couch instead of hiding behind it??

Curly Irish Girl · #30 2009-03-02, 8:00pm

Thanks for the info and your time, Jenny! I did get my TAG with an order from a vendor and there were no instructions that I recall.....so I checked the website....and found the Tips section.....perhaps it's just me but surely didn't see anything that I would routinely consider intellectual property per the copyright component....