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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions. |
2009-11-21, 6:36am
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boro color bender
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Join Date: Jun 06, 2005
Location: The Oregon coast!
Posts: 10,039
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Schott Artistic...
Does not play well with silver colors in implosions...
The silver leaches into the clear and it gets all foggy... not a pretty foggy either. Looks like a thin coating of mold...
I like Simax so much better... that is all....
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2009-11-21, 9:04pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Dec 07, 2006
Location: Scappoose, OR
Posts: 1,445
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Yep, what he said!
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Angela Kane To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. -One of a kind boro frit blends!
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2009-11-21, 9:23pm
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He can do the origami
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Join Date: Nov 24, 2005
Location: Najin Oyate
Posts: 1,474
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Yep,
What she said he said...said.
Otter
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2009-11-21, 10:01pm
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And silence is golden
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2005
Location: The Shrimp Shack
Posts: 3,230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otter's Flame
Yep,
What she said he said...said.
Otter
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2009-11-22, 11:19am
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Hummel factory reject
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2006
Location: New Yorkish
Posts: 615
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Word.
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2009-11-22, 2:13pm
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Attack of the Snuggie!
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Join Date: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 209
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Thanks for posting this Brent was thinking of buying a case or two to try...
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Dave
On a Delta Elite with compressed tank and generators
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
...Stephen F Roberts
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2009-11-23, 6:34am
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boro color bender
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Join Date: Jun 06, 2005
Location: The Oregon coast!
Posts: 10,039
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If you're using WYSIWYG colors, it's fine.... silver leaches into it really weird... gets cloudy... makes a silver glass guy scratch his head, but I finally got the clue that it's definitely the clear after two encounters with the same issue. Just glad I could warn the silver glass users... maybe avoid some head aches...
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"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
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2009-11-23, 6:45am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Feb 18, 2008
Location: The Villages, FL
Posts: 636
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OK, call me stupid if you have to, but what exactly is silver glass?
Greg
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Greg
A pessimist is an optimist with experience.
"In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress." - John Adams
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2009-11-23, 7:21am
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The Battle of Boro Boro
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Join Date: Mar 16, 2009
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Posts: 171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getdul981
OK, call me stupid if you have to, but what exactly is silver glass?
Greg
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It's any glass that uses pure silver as a reactive colorant. Eg. DAP, Silver Creek, etc.
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~ Jamie
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2009-11-23, 10:32am
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Pyromaniac
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Join Date: Aug 12, 2006
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,868
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I have used Simax almost exclusively and love it still, but I ordered some Pyrex recently and really like the way it reacts with the silver colors to create blue wisps and that halo effect.
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Lana
Sexy Barracuda and Mirage
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2009-11-24, 8:22pm
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Member
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Join Date: Jan 09, 2007
Posts: 38
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yucky schott artistic?
it would be most interesting to see a photo or two of this effect?
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2009-11-24, 8:42pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Feb 18, 2008
Location: The Villages, FL
Posts: 636
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Thanks Jamie, I figured it must be something like that.
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Greg
A pessimist is an optimist with experience.
"In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress." - John Adams
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2009-11-24, 9:00pm
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ManBearPig
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Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 8,540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptrautman
it would be most interesting to see a photo or two of this effect?
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Here's a pic of the same color with 4 different types of clear.
http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143134
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2009-11-25, 4:09am
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product of the universe
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Join Date: Sep 06, 2005
Location: Rutvegas Vt
Posts: 598
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isn't blue moon a color that if you breathe to deeply or look at it the wrong way while working it causes the color to change regardless if all the pieces were made in the same atmosphere? I mean that's a lot of silver. I'd like to see this test done with multiple colors to give a good consensus. One test with a wild varying silver color may not be the best control.I'm not saying that the test isn't good, i just think that there are a lot of factors that go on and to draw a conclusion with absolute certainty based on one test isn't very practical.
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Chris
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And the men who hold high places,Must be the ones to start,To mold a new reality,Closer to the heart--Rush
Currently using fire.
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2009-11-25, 7:35am
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ManBearPig
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Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 8,540
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Well, if someone would like to donate some glass to me, I'd be glad to do such a test.
But, for me, Blue Moon has always been pretty predictable.
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2009-11-25, 9:28am
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funny mofo
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Join Date: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 1,089
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Blue Moon is one of the colors I never have a problem with unless I specifically do something like use a flame with no oxy just to see what will happen. And my skill is nowhere near my enthusiasm -- if I can usually make it work, it's probably an easy color. You may be thinking of a different color?
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Donna's law of glass: If you're the first one to smell something burning, you're probably the one on fire.
Washington, DC: Taxation Without Representation, 200+ Years and Counting.
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2009-11-25, 7:17pm
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boro color bender
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Join Date: Jun 06, 2005
Location: The Oregon coast!
Posts: 10,039
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Paul, I would, but i give my demo pieces away... let me see what I can do... will try to post pics of how it fuzzes out...
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"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
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2009-11-25, 9:45pm
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He can do the origami
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Join Date: Nov 24, 2005
Location: Najin Oyate
Posts: 1,474
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Brent, I will look through my pics to see if I got a good pic also.
Otter
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2009-11-25, 10:42pm
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Surrounded by Trouble
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 14,165
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I have a piece from your last class Brent. I will be happy to take a picture of and post in the next couple of days if you want me to. It will show the effect your talking about.
Since I also own some Schott Artistic and Simax I will also do some of my own testing. At the same time, same torch settings, same chemistry this weekend. Sorry I only have these two boro clears in right now.
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"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi
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2009-11-27, 9:33pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jan 07, 2008
Location: La Verne, CA
Posts: 9
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here's a couple of implosion mibs made using schott with silver fume/cobalt blue (left) and amber purple, onyx (right). sorry to those with limited bandwidth but this image is rather large
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2009-11-27, 10:07pm
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Flamewoman
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Join Date: Jan 12, 2007
Location: California
Posts: 985
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I noticed some problems years ago with (the case I bought ) of Schott.
Some of my favorite beads are base of Ruby strike 4 with green exotic frit then clear.
When I clear coat them with schott I just get a really ho hum green blobs in a bead type of bead. When encased with simax the result is very dramatic, and one of my favorite beads.
So I have a case of punty's.
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Mary K
GTT Sidewinder & 3 Regalias
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2009-11-29, 7:26am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 02, 2009
Location: coastal ri
Posts: 108
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schott gets a bad rap. i know at least 10-15 blowers who use it exclusively(including some of the biggest names in the industry).
the silver colors look better on the outside of schott than any other brand imo. the inside encasement issues are a learning curve. the four brand comparison has too many variables(torch chemistry, tanked or concentrator, user error, torch and gas pressure settings)
northstar uses schott, simax and kimble for cullet so schott can't be all bad.
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2009-11-29, 9:52am
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Hummel factory reject
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2006
Location: New Yorkish
Posts: 615
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The only thing I don't like Schott for is implosions. Use it exclusively for everything else. Very buttery and smooth melting clear.
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2009-11-30, 5:48am
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boro color bender
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Join Date: Jun 06, 2005
Location: The Oregon coast!
Posts: 10,039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjmarchwinds
schott gets a bad rap. i know at least 10-15 blowers who use it exclusively(including some of the biggest names in the industry).
the silver colors look better on the outside of schott than any other brand imo. the inside encasement issues are a learning curve. the four brand comparison has too many variables(torch chemistry, tanked or concentrator, user error, torch and gas pressure settings)
northstar uses schott, simax and kimble for cullet so schott can't be all bad.
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Schott isn't all bad... for some applications, it may work just fine... for implosions with silver colors, it sucks... plain and simple, it doesn't do what I need it to do... the silver leaches into the glass in a weird fashion... might look great under a silver color if you're applying it to the outside.... but for what i teach, it sucks bad... Simax is much better for what i need...
and I'm not sure regular Schott ever gave me this issue... Schott Artistic is different... I'll try to nail that question down with some experimentation...
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2009-12-07, 8:06pm
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Lampworker
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Join Date: Jul 06, 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 211
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from what i hear its a very slight difference in the chemical composition
schott duran
SiO2 B2O3 Na2O + K2O Al203
81% 13% 4% 2%
http://www.us.schott.com/labware/eng...ies/index.html
Simax
SiO2 B2O3 Al2O3 Na2O + K2O
80.4% 13% 2.4% 4.2%
http://www.pegasus-glass.com/simax.asp
as you can see the differences in the sodium oxide + potassium oxide differs by 0.2% which is enough to give a different effect on silver colors.
i found this out the hard way, and tried to supsitute schott for simax, then we had a world of difference with BM, aurora, AP, exotic red, blue carmel, and other silver colors.
yea some people love it. try mixing stringer of NS exlt yellow with schott and you will get some nice irridecent blues. some colors look like they are glowing. i see lots of art with this effect and was wondering how come my colors dont come out like that....its all in the clear...Abe, Paul and i were talking about this at the Flame off this year.
pick your clear and stick with it if you want consistancy.
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=4855591
here is another interesting read on the invention of borosillicate glass in 1880 i found while looking for those formulas.
and another intersting read on all the different types of borosilicate that schott makes,
http://www.us.schott.com/english/dow...s_guide_us.pdf
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2009-12-08, 1:50am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Mar 11, 2009
Location: lil' rhody
Posts: 10
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great post tofu. personally i've never had an issue with schott artistic, i don't do too many implosions anymore but when i do they look amazing. plus i've had cracking issues with simax, i find greater stability when working solid schott.
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2009-12-08, 2:56am
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He can do the origami
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Join Date: Nov 24, 2005
Location: Najin Oyate
Posts: 1,474
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Great post Tofu, thanks for the information.
I was Brent's T.A. at a class in Portland when the issue started showing up. In fact it was funny because he was not getting the results he normally got with his silver glass implosions. He was puzzled but knew something was different about the way the clear was acting. Only later did we find out they had changed clears to Schott Artistic and had not told him.
When I got home I went to Schott's website and looked at all their different products. I sent an email asking for the specs specifically for Schott ARTISTIC but have not heard back from them yet.
We did side by side comparisons with implosions done with Simax and with Schott Artistic... there was an amazing difference.
Thank you for posting the specs.
Otter
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2009-12-09, 4:34am
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boro color bender
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Join Date: Jun 06, 2005
Location: The Oregon coast!
Posts: 10,039
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I'd be really interested in finding out if there's a difference between Schott and Schott Artistic... I've used the original Schott clear before and never got this weird result... I suspect they are producing this in another plant or having it made and slapping their name on it.
Like Otter said, this studio I was teaching at had switched from Simax, without telling me... I have encountered this with Schott Artistic before, but when it happened on what i thought was Simax, I was seriously scratching my head... then it dawned on me to ask if they had switched clear... I was so relieved when they said "Yeah, now we use Schott Artistic"... with all the variables we already face using silver colors, I just wanted folks to know there is a difference in the clears as well.
I'll stick with Simax for most of what I do... it plays well with the colors I like...
Thanks for adding to the discussion and posting the formulas... neat stuff...
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2009-12-09, 9:30am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 21, 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,807
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There was quite a bit of discussion here regarding opinions on SBA, including some posts on SBA and Duran.
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Lynda
Cheetah, 5 lpm and 7lpm conc/generator (8-9 psi), natural gas (booster), started 11/06
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