Newer than newbie....soft glass...ventilation needs??

jlady · #1 2008-12-02, 1:28pm

I have been thinking of learning lampwork but have pretty much dismissed the idea because of the ventilation requirement. I don't want to re-engineer my house (cut holes in walls/ceilings etc).

I was talking to someone who does lampwork and he said if you use soft glass you can just use a window or fan for ventilation. He even said you don't need a kiln and can just dip the bead into something to anneal it (or something to that effect)?

Is this correct??

And what is soft glass?

ruca · #2 2008-12-02, 1:33pm

you can dip the bead in hot vermuculite or put it into a fiber blanket, but that will not anneal your glass. it will just cool it at a rate where it doesn't crack.

IMO, using just a window & box fan for ventilation is seriously, not enough, no matter what glass your using. you could get a high CFM exhaust fan (atleast 800CFM) & mount it in your window, however, which is not the best top-of-the-line ventilation but it avoids having to put holes in your house. make sure you use plywood or something to seal off the rest of the window so the fumes aren't just flying back in.

i would do some serious reading in the safety & studio sections of this forum & see if its something your still interested in. also, before going out & buying a set up i would look around at local studios or galleries that offer classes - $300 for a class is a lot less inexpensive then buying your own set up if you decide its not for you.

p.s. a class will also help answer a lot of questions & get you started on basic technique.

Toni Lutman · #3 2008-12-02, 1:44pm

Not to be rude, but anyone that tells you that soft glass can be annealed in vermiculite may not be your best source of information.

Perhaps he simply didn't communicate what he meant very well, but to be sure, double check the info you get from him.

And don't get overwhelmed. There's a huge amount of information in the Safety section. Read a bit, and it will help you focus on some specific questions you might have that relate to your specific setup.

ruca · #4 2008-12-02, 1:48pm

wow toni, i feel like my post looks so mean next to yours.

sorry! i wasn't trying to be!

i hope you have the best of luck in pursuing lampworking!

Toni Lutman · #5 2008-12-02, 1:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruca

wow toni, i feel like my post looks so mean next to yours.

sorry! i wasn't trying to be!

i hope you have the best of luck in pursuing lampworking!

Don't be silly! Your post wasn't the least bit mean.

You gave some good information. I just want her to be aware that the info she got from her friend may not be the most accurate, and she should be careful.

jlady · #6 2008-12-02, 2:37pm

It was probably my faulty recollection of what he said. I don't really remember what he said. Just the high points....window/fan ventilation and something about dipping and no kiln. I put the words "anneal" in the message but shouldn't have. I only remember key points...that is why I am not a good student!!

MardiGrasGlass · #7 2008-12-02, 2:40pm

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buckey29 · #8 2008-12-02, 2:47pm

As a newbie myself, I can tell you that there is a great deal of information on this site. I know that part of my problem was that I didn't know what questions to ask in most cases. I also received some information from people that I questioned and since found out wasn't quite accurate. But I think it was probably more my lack of understanding than them steering me wrong. (I also had the same question about vermiculite).

I can tell you - you are in the right place. I've got a lot of great information by just reading what others have written. However, I recently bought a book that has been a HUGE help to me in learning all the basics that a new person MUST know. The book is "Lampworked Marbles" and while it is a book about making marbles, the first 115 pages discusses things like ventilation, hoses, torches, glass types, annealing, etc. For $29 its well worth the money even if you never make 1 marble.

pam · #9 2008-12-02, 2:51pm

That may work well for you, Christopher, but then again it may not, depending on the torch you are using. If you smell a chlorine-like smell after you have been torching for a while, then you are building up nitrogen oxide which can be very harmful to you and other members of your home. If you want to know more, you can read the document on this link: http://www.isgb.org/education/nox.shtml

Lampworking can be a very rewarding hobby, however there are hazards that you will need to guard against and some of the "guarding" can be costly. Ventilation is a primary concern, as well as proper annealing procedures once you get passed the practicing stage.

Carolyn M · #10 2008-12-02, 3:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MardiGrasGlass

I am a newbie too. I set my torch up in a spare bedroom on a work desk. I can't afford a full vent hood, and special exhaust fans, so I just open the window. And the way our house is set up, we have a hallway door that is directly adjacent to the bedroom door. So I put a fan in front of the open window to pull fresh air in, and I put another fan at the doorway to push air out the hallway door. I still need to install a CO2 monitor, so I dont torch more than a few hours right now to be safe, but the fans run on high to create cross ventilation.

ETA: I dont have a kiln either. I'm using a fiber blanket to cool them, and then I'll have a friend batch anneal for me.

So you are actually venting into your house? This system is not adequate and you could get sick if you continue to torch with this set up

KarenBeth · #11 2008-12-02, 3:15pm

JLady,

Without spending the 300 on a class, you can get a mapp gas set up with hot head torch for about 175 and a book (I bought Cindy Jenkins' book, Making Glass Beads) to get started and try it out. Thats what I did. Even if you want to just buy the book and read it first to get ur basics. I bought my set-up at a local art studio, so check that out where u live first. If they don't carry it, I think Sundance carries them. As for ventilation, you can set yourself up out in your garage with a fan for exhaust and your garage door open to get u started, or even on your back porch if you have one.

Mardi gras,
I hope your not blowing your fumes out into the hallway into the house? What good does that do, except making it more likely to blow up your house rather than the room your working in.

You should never have your set-up inside the house without proper ventilation even though I've heard others do and don't mind taking the chance. I've just heard horror stories and would never endanger my family over a hobby.

Starrr · #12 2008-12-02, 3:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MardiGrasGlass

I am a newbie too. I set my torch up in a spare bedroom on a work desk. I can't afford a full vent hood, and special exhaust fans, so I just open the window. And the way our house is set up, we have a hallway door that is directly adjacent to the bedroom door. So I put a fan in front of the open window to pull fresh air in, and I put another fan at the doorway to push air out the hallway door. I still need to install a CO2 monitor, so I dont torch more than a few hours right now to be safe, but the fans run on high to create cross ventilation.

ETA: I dont have a kiln either. I'm using a fiber blanket to cool them, and then I'll have a friend batch anneal for me.

This set up sounds like you are pushing the fumes directly into your home and besides yourself could cause harm to any animals or children if you have any.

There is tons of information on building your own proper ventilation system and not all of them are that expensive.

ruca · #13 2008-12-02, 4:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MardiGrasGlass

I am a newbie too. I set my torch up in a spare bedroom on a work desk. I can't afford a full vent hood, and special exhaust fans, so I just open the window. And the way our house is set up, we have a hallway door that is directly adjacent to the bedroom door. So I put a fan in front of the open window to pull fresh air in, and I put another fan at the doorway to push air out the hallway door. I still need to install a CO2 monitor, so I dont torch more than a few hours right now to be safe, but the fans run on high to create cross ventilation.

ETA: I dont have a kiln either. I'm using a fiber blanket to cool them, and then I'll have a friend batch anneal for me.

a tip for setting up inexpensive more effective ventilation: search craigslist for high cfm exhaust fans. i got a dayton 890cfm fan used on craigslist in great condition for $20. then you can mount it in your window where it is blowing out, as in pulling the fumes away from your face & blowing them out the window. you want it set up pretty much at face level in front of your torch, of course a safe distance away from the flame. again, make sure you block off the rest of the window with plywood or metal or something to keep the bad stuff from coming back in. this is not the best ventilation set up, but it is certainly better than just an open window. you also want to make sure you're getting fresh air coming in. a door that's letting air in from the rest of the house may not be sufficient. an open window behind you would be more suitable.

for more ideal ventilation there are some really great threads here on how to set up a ventilation system with a hood & all that good stuff.

ginkgoglass · #14 2008-12-02, 5:35pm

There are lots of different ways to get set up without spending a lot of money initially on equipment. I started torching on a Hot Head torch on my screened in porch with a fan behind me to blow the fumes away from me and out the screen. I did not anneal my first beads because I was just practicing and never gave them to or sold them to anyone. No one would've wanted them anyway, LOL. I just put them in a fiber blanket to cool them. Was this ideal, no. But I figured it was better than spending a ton of money on something I wasn't sure about.

If you are in a room, set up your bench by the window and have a strong fan blowing behind you to move the fumes away from your face towards the window, and a fan IN the window to pull the fumes out as Jes suggested. You should also have a source of fresh air such as another open window or door to the outside. This is still risky though and it would be better to torch outside or in a screened area until you are ready to invest in the best equipment.

Eventually, when I knew that I was really going to do glasswork seriously, I bought a kiln and upgraded to a larger torch. Now I am in my garage with serious ventilation and a workbench. Eventually, there will be a larger vent for 5 stations!

You are going to have so much fun!!!

ginkgoglass · #15 2008-12-02, 5:38pm

Oh and soft glass is like the glass they use in Murano glass . . .

jlady · #16 2008-12-02, 5:58pm

Can someone tell me more about soft glass, is there a certain name for it? How is it sold ... under what name? Is it the most/least common type of glass to torch? Is it easier than another type??

I fuse glass and understand COE so it that what we are talking about??

ruca · #17 2008-12-02, 6:03pm

yeah, soft glass has to do with coe. i don't work soft glass so i can't be of much help in that department, but kandice has some great info on her website:

http://www.coloraddiction.com/resources.html
http://www.coloraddiction.com/glossary.html

hope she doesn't mind me plugging her website

MardiGrasGlass · #18 2008-12-02, 6:21pm

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pam · #19 2008-12-02, 6:58pm

Well, I didn't question your pulling air out the hallway door, but it might have made it clearer if you had said the door is to the outside, assuming it is. Christopher, if you don't want anyone to comment on things you say, then that will be a problem, especially when you are advising someone on their ventilation. That's probably why everyone jumped. Ventilation is a part of lampworking that everyone takes very seriously as it can cause permanent damage to your lungs.

This thread will explain more: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...thing+problems

MardiGrasGlass · #20 2008-12-02, 7:11pm

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ruca · #21 2008-12-02, 7:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MardiGrasGlass

Sorry, your the lucky winner that I chose to reply to, and I will address everything at once.

Y'all must have missed the part about CROSS VENTILATION. Fresh air comes in one window, and then goes out the door. Perhaps my wording wasn't quite as clear in your minds as it was in mine, but I'm not so stupid as to vent from one room to another.

None of you live at my house, and none of you have seen pictures, so please dont be so quick to tell me I am wrong in what I am doing. If you think I need a vent hood, then buy me one. If I followed everyones advice, I'd have to torch in the middle of my back yard.

I'm figuring I'm just going to have to quit posting, y'all are WAY to quick to attack and accuse around here.

i was not trying to attack or accuse. i was just trying to help. sorry.

DesertDreamer · #22 2008-12-02, 7:30pm

Christoper, nobody's attacking you, we're trying to keep you and anyone else in your home SAFE.

That cross ventilation might be marginally passable IF you were blowing air OUT the window from your torch, and not into the rest of your house. At the very least, please reverse the fans...bring air in from the hallway and blow it OUT the window. It's still not great, but it's a start, and much better/safer than what you're doing now.

Raven Wylder · #23 2008-12-02, 11:37pm

Christopher, what you need to realize is that while it might work for you, for now. That really isn't considered ventilation, and certainly not the best ventilation. People can get get seriously affected by fumes (I'm on of them) and can be truly harmful to their health. I'm glad you clarified what you meant that you're not venting through your house but what seemed like an attack is just concern for you and for your loved ones that could unknownly get harmed by fumes.

And with the internet, these threads live on and on....I know I wouldn't want incorrect information that someone might use to base their "ventilation" decision on in the future. That's another reason why people will state and question your setup. I know you're new and like I said above, I don't think you were attacked, I'm glad you got questioned. I hope it helps you realize that you've only got one set of lungs and that you get an actual ventilation system in the future. I will be pm'ing you this just in case you don't check back here.

Jlady - you've already got a bunch of answers above and there are lots more to read in the Safety room of LE. The search function works great to look up specifics about fans, calculations, etc.

Joeman · #24 2008-12-03, 12:16am

Hey,

I have a question... Why are all these posts by "MardiGrasGlass" not showing up in this THREAD ? Are these being censored or something ? What the heck is going on ?

/J...

DesertDreamer · #25 2008-12-03, 8:42am

Looks like he edited himself, if you read the fine print at the bottom of the posts. There certainly wasn't anything there that Corri would've bothered to censor.

I've just gotta say, having read the original posts, that he was being unnecessarily defensive. There's a LOT of collective knowledge and wisdom here, and arguing with what is KNOWN to be a risky situation just doesn't hold water. Very few of us have a financially vested relationship with the ventilation folks, we're concerned with keeping people safe while they pursue a hobby that can be dangerous in a number of different ways.

I was present, back in 1998, when the SGB invited the NIOSH folks to The Gathering to do a bunch of different environmental tests (mostly air quality and vision safety). The results (which Pam linked to) were incredibly valuable. The short version is that carbon monoxide usually isn't a problem, but NOx IS. Good ventilation is essential to protect yourself and other members of your household.

Joeman · #26 2008-12-03, 7:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertDreamer

Looks like he edited himself, if you read the fine print at the bottom of the posts. There certainly wasn't anything there that Corri would've bothered to censor.

I've just gotta say, having read the original posts, that he was being unnecessarily defensive. There's a LOT of collective knowledge and wisdom here, and arguing with what is KNOWN to be a risky situation just doesn't hold water. Very few of us have a financially vested relationship with the ventilation folks, we're concerned with keeping people safe while they pursue a hobby that can be dangerous in a number of different ways.

I was present, back in 1998, when the SGB invited the NIOSH folks to The Gathering to do a bunch of different environmental tests (mostly air quality and vision safety). The results (which Pam linked to) were incredibly valuable. The short version is that carbon monoxide usually isn't a problem, but NOx IS. Good ventilation is essential to protect yourself and other members of your household.

Okay, good to know...

Thanks,

/Joeman...