Is COE 104 compatible with all other 104 COE?

Swirleigh · #1 2014-04-28, 4:19pm

I'm starting up my flame-work studio out in my garage again, and before I got all my glass from Arrow Springs, but they are temporarily not selling glass any more. I'm about to make a large order at Fossil and Devardi and then it dawned on me, will all these glasses be compatible even though they have the same COE? Will I have to separate my glass by manufacturer or... is all 104 COE compatible?

LynieG · #2 2014-04-28, 4:50pm

Anything listed as 104 COE is compatible with other 104 COE's. Some glasses play nicer than others but are still compatible. Example Devardi is WAY shocky when it's cold and has to be introduced to the flame more gently and more slowly but is still a 104 COE. Most people that use it try to pre warm it first. I personally don't like Devardi but others here love it because of the colors. If you hear the words "Frit on a Stick" they are referring to Devardi glass LOL!

Happy ordering! It's LOTS of fun but really hard on the pocketbook! I keep a towel close by to wipe the drool from my face after looking at all the wonderful colors out there!

ROC · #3 2014-04-28, 4:54pm

It's not a bad idea to keep them separated by mfg anyway. Some identical colors aren't identical, like Vetro Black Trans vs. Eff Black Trans for instance. It's a personal choice how you want to do it, but I'm kicking myself because I have those two blacks mixed together and no way to tell which is which. Just my two cents.

jaci · #4 2014-04-28, 5:38pm

Thank you for asking the most loaded question ever!

It's something we a all struggle with at one point or another when making beautiful color combo's !!!!

Most glass plays well with each other in the 104 line and most all say it's been 'compatibility tested' but '104' is really a range. Anywhere from like 98-110 or something like that. You will find when reading that there are many many threads about the most beautiful color combo that cracked! There are some that don't like to be encased, and others who don't play well with others.. For the most part they all sorta work together.

RSimmons · #5 2014-04-28, 5:47pm

Short answer is NO. COE is an approximation with all glass and will vary slightly around a given number. The 'tested compatible' point above is true. The other 'loaded' issue is viscosity. Not all 104 will be compatible and you'll have to do a certain amount of experimenting to see what works and what doesn't, especially when it comes to encasement.

Robert

AKDesigns · #6 2014-04-28, 6:01pm

Yeah, what Robert said.

houptdavid · #7 2014-04-28, 6:24pm

Ditto ABOVE
Matching COEs is simply not an accurate measure of compatibility.

https://www.bullseyeglass.com/images...chnotes_03.pdf

SGA · #8 2014-04-28, 9:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSimmons

Short answer is NO. COE is an approximation with all glass and will vary slightly around a given number. The 'tested compatible' point above is true. The other 'loaded' issue is viscosity. Not all 104 will be compatible and you'll have to do a certain amount of experimenting to see what works and what doesn't, especially when it comes to encasement.

Robert

This.

The less informal explanation, just because manufacturer-A says it's 104 doesn't mean it's 104. In truth it might be 102. Likewise manufacturer-B may say its 104, but it might be 106.

While 102 will play with 104, and 104 will play with 106, 102 will NOT play well with 106 one hundred percent of the time.

Rudy · #9 2014-04-29, 3:09am

Some of us have learned the hard way. Like encasing CIM purples (specifically: eggplant for me) with Effetre clear is a no no!

Deb L · #10 2014-04-29, 5:19am

Being you are just getting started it would be a great habit to label EVERY rod you buy. And not just so you don't mix coes. Then if they get mixed up you won't kick yourself. And when you find a color you really love you will know what number to reorder.

Double Helix Glassworks · #11 2014-04-29, 6:15am

That's a good question. We did some testing using glasses from various companies, and found that the answer is "usually, but not always". Here's a link to our findings, and our thoughts on the subject:

http://www.doublehelixglassworks.com...patibility.pdf

In the test series shown in paper's chart, each color was tested for strain against that same company's clear. Separate testing showed a significant spread between each company's clear, which can increase the total spread when using one company's color with another company's clear. Sometimes. Or it can improve the fit, depending.

We are working on a follow-up paper that deals with "tolerance stacking", the cumulative strain associated with the differential spread between two glasses, and how that relates to a lampwork artisan's experience when using different glasses, and different batches of the same colors.

--Jed at Double Helix Glassworks

Hayley · #12 2014-04-29, 8:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROC

It's not a bad idea to keep them separated by mfg anyway. Some identical colors aren't identical, like Vetro Black Trans vs. Eff Black Trans for instance. It's a personal choice how you want to do it, but I'm kicking myself because I have those two blacks mixed together and no way to tell which is which. Just my two cents.

Pull a thin stringer from the tip of the rod and you can tell. Effetre black is purple when pulled thin. Vetrofond black is very sought after so it may be worth the effort. I also would hate to see VF be used as a base for it's so rare and the BEST black in stringer form!