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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2008-01-17, 8:37am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 17, 2006
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Bummed!!! What am I doing wrong!!???
I have made many smaller heart beads like this using Amy Trescott's tutorial and have had no problems-although they are 1 solid color- not encased...
Now I'm trying larger hearts that are encased but they keep cracking!! So upset! I'm attempting to attack photos so you can see... It appears the cracking is in the encasing ONLY not thru the entire bead.
The purple one I made a couple days ago I figure was trashed anyway after I pulled it from the kiln so I thought why not try to reheat it molten yesterday and see what would happen then pop it back into the kiln. Seemed to work til I pulled it out of the kiln again as well as the red encased one was all cracked again!!!!!! (**WAH!!**)
Absolutely NO clue what the heck I"m doing wrong-any thoughts/suggestions?
Thx-Amanda
ps-ic annot get a pic to upload correctly I'm sorry-I hope this link works. NOt sure what I'm doing wrong-not good at resizing...
http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...dhearts002.jpg
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2008-01-17, 8:44am
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First of all, what colors are you encasing and with which clear?
Second, you can't encase red. The only thing you can try is to make a base of clear, encase that thinly in red, and then encase again.
Or you could just make a solid red bead - no encasing at all. - NEVERMIND. I JUST SAW YOUR PICS. oops!
Oh. I see you used purple. I'm very interested in the actual colors and brand of glass. Were they Effetre? Opaque? Transparent?.....Be more specific about the glass & I think we can help pin it down.
Sorry they cracked!!!
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2008-01-17, 9:08am
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Oops-sorry.
The base is white moretti and each is encased in moretti as well,trans red and a deep purple. No clue the exact names but since they're all moretti it shouldn't really matter right? Surface decor is moretti as well.... Kept in heat, not cracked when they went in. Kiln set to sit at 950 for 2 working hrs then up to 960 held at 1/2 hr if I remember correctly...
Hope this helps!!
Amanda
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2008-01-17, 11:00am
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Do you have any other brands of glass in your studio? Like Bullseye? I'm stumped if you're saying they're definitely Moretti and they're only cracking thru the encasing. There's got to be a glass screw up somewhere, somehow. Did you buy the glass from a vendor or from the garage? This wouldn't even be a kiln issue.
Hmmm. I can always answer these and this one has me boggled! Thats' not good. It's GOT to be the glass. Moretti purple and red don't do that though. They're fine over white so that's why I'm thinking you have another brand on there you're not aware of.
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"I am convinced that men are inherently lazy and women were created to kick their asses." ~Kendra
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2008-01-17, 11:20am
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I do have a few rods of Bullseye but they're clearly marked.
I used a diff white rod that I actually bought yesterday under the red as well that is definately moretti......sigh. I bought from the stained glass shop here in town who only sells Moretti. It does sound logical that diff coe's would be the culprit but I'm thinking no...
sighhhhhhh-what to do.........
Amanda
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2008-01-17, 1:12pm
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Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Apr 12, 2006
Location: Victoria BC Canada
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The larger the piece, the greater the likelihood of incompatibility cracks.
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Dennis Brady
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2008-01-17, 1:22pm
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That purple looks more like lauscha than moretti... gorgeous colour but it often cracks... also reds are notorious for cracking ... and it will only get worse the more often you refire them I was told when I first started 13 years ago to never fully encase reds yellows or oranges leave the ends of the beads open..
Try the beads in green if they are still cracking it's your clear.... There was a clear floating around a year ago that always cracked, Arrow Springs was selling it.... so if that's where your retailer is getting the glass it could be the problem!
Lynne
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2008-01-17, 1:35pm
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Ah HA! It's the white!
Yes, reds can crack if encased. All sulfa colors have that lovely little attribute. But there are ways like the one I mentioned above, to stop it. EIther that, or just don't encase all the way. I can totally encase red & silver glass & frit with clear and I can encase coral. And Kandice Seeber encases coral all the fricken time.
As far as that purple, it does kind of look like Lauscha (not that it makes any difference) but I thought it was one of the ink blue violets.
Dennis, she's not encasing the red. She used it OVER white.
Glad you found the problem! Try the white on a test bead with stringer only and see what happens. Otherwise use white you KNOW to be 104.
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"I am convinced that men are inherently lazy and women were created to kick their asses." ~Kendra
"Art enables us to find ourselves and lose ourselves at the same time." ~Thomas Merton
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2008-01-17, 6:12pm
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maybe tomorrow
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The purple might be Effetre Violet Dark Transparent. It's a gorgeous color. Very dark though, so I usually only use it as an encasement over clear or white so the color shows through. I've never had an cracking problems with it though.
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2008-01-17, 6:15pm
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geekitude on two wheels
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I think its the white, too. Those look just like the beads I made with a bullseye white that snuck into my moretti. It wouldn't be unlikely for a stained glass supplier to have some bullseye rods kicking around as samples even, since they all carry bullseye sheet anyways. one way to tell is that bullseye doesn't etch as well as moretti.
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2008-01-17, 7:39pm
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I forgot to mention I did a smaller purple heart last night for my daughter and it's fine-no cracks-about an inch long and no issues-same white and purple used...
I"ve asked the stained glass guy to carry Lauscha and Bullseye and he says he'd rather not since he's never had anyone but me ask for it. So unless it got into his mix by accidnet from the company it's not anything but moretti...that and teh fact that my smaller heart is just fine makes me go hmmmmmmmm.
I have an order pending for a couple encased hearts and I'd rather not waste the glass or the time...Nothing worse than making something that turns out then in teh morning it's shot to hell.
Oh ya-the holes still have white around-I couldn't get the colored encasing to the very tips so teh white is showing there no issue there...
agh!!!
Amanda
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2008-01-17, 8:18pm
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Any chance the white is opalino or alabastro?
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2008-01-18, 5:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmandaL
I forgot to mention I did a smaller purple heart last night for my daughter and it's fine-no cracks-about an inch long and no issues-same white and purple used...
I"ve asked the stained glass guy to carry Lauscha and Bullseye and he says he'd rather not since he's never had anyone but me ask for it. So unless it got into his mix by accidnet from the company it's not anything but moretti...that and teh fact that my smaller heart is just fine makes me go hmmmmmmmm.
I have an order pending for a couple encased hearts and I'd rather not waste the glass or the time...Nothing worse than making something that turns out then in teh morning it's shot to hell.
Oh ya-the holes still have white around-I couldn't get the colored encasing to the very tips so teh white is showing there no issue there...
agh!!!
Amanda
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If you don't like the white showing, you can make small wraps of glass on the shoulders of the heart near the holes. Tilt your bead so you aim the flame at one of the wraps at a time and the glass should belt down towards the hole over the white.
I'm not explaining this well - I just got out of bed. Hit the transparent color only with a small flame. Don't hit the white. Glass moves where the heat is so you want to pull that glass down over the white with the flame. You could cheat and use a tool to help push it there too.
As far as the white glass, does the guy carry any 96 coe? You know, he may have it there without knowing. I'm telling you those cracks are compatibility and it's just a matter of time before your new hearts crack. Could be a while. I wouldn't trust anything made with that white glass right now, especially if you're selling it to a customer. Sometimes, the smaller the bead, the longer it will take to crack. It could crack next month or next week. Do you want to take chance?
You can order white from any supplier on this board. Most will ship it first class for you if you ask and only order 1/4 - 1/2lb.
JMHO.
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"I am convinced that men are inherently lazy and women were created to kick their asses." ~Kendra
"Art enables us to find ourselves and lose ourselves at the same time." ~Thomas Merton
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2008-01-18, 3:24pm
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Isinglass Design
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You might try annealing a little higher- maybe 980 to 1000, then ramping down slowly. Sometimes it's not coe, it's viscosity, and for that a higher annealing temp. seems to help. I've had purple problems, especially with the ink blue, before myself. And yes, size does matter.
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Laurie
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2008-01-18, 3:39pm
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Seems to me that years ago I learned to use a "heat sink" before the white to prevent cracking. White is the softest Moretti color, and clear the hardest. The Italians are not so keen on verifying the exact COE of their glass, and say it's all "around" 104. Try making a core of clear (even funky-looking, scummy stuff - it shouldn't show) and then cover with the white. Proceed as usual. Try this especially if you are working large.
In the beginning of my beadmaking experience I bought a bunch of the Opalino and Alabastro Moretti colors (notorious for incompatibility) and they almost always broke if I made one of them the core of an encased bead. But the clear core as a heat sink ended that problem permanently for me.
Good luck! ~Jenny
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2008-01-19, 8:52am
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hmmm interesting! I"ve never geard of layering up w/ clear like that before-I'll give it a try...
I did make a rather large one w/ clear lime green over the same white and it's just fine...very strange...I am paranoid about that one and the smaller purple cracking later now though. I"ve just never pulled something out of the kiln and it was cracked...
And yes it's not opalino or anything-just plain ole white...
Amanda
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2008-01-23, 11:36am
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HOt WArm COld = Howaco
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The way the cracks are parallel with the mandrel, I'm going to bet that you are ramping your kiln down to fast. The thinner part of the bead is cooling faster then then thicker part. (the thicker part is going to retain the heat longer.) Slow down your ramp down after you make sure they have a good soak at the top temp.
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2008-01-23, 1:09pm
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Cracks and reannealing?
I'm a newbie - so I hope this isn't a stupid question. If the cracks were caused by the cool down ramp being too fast could these be reheated and annealed again using a slower schedule? I have seen people doing it in a kiln on purpose to make crackle glass bowls and have wondered if it would work on beads - Would the glass still come apart later?
Charleen
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2008-01-23, 4:14pm
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Yeah - How do you make crackle glass beads? I've never looked into it but know it can be done. There's an artist here I've seen do it. Hmmmm. Anyone?
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2008-01-26, 11:36pm
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You know I did that once accidentally. I made a bead that I didn't like and put it hot into water and of course it cracked, and looked like those fried marbles. The bead stayed together oddly so I thought for the heck of it I would put it into the kiln and annealed it to see if it broke apart. The thing stayed together. I even bounced it off my table top and nothing broke. So maybe the fine line to this process is to cool the bead to the cracked point but not so much that it breaks apart. I could be way off base, but it does make you wonder.
Red
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2008-01-27, 11:32am
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HOt WArm COld = Howaco
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Red, you are right on. Go ahead and plunge the bead into water. Then take it back out and "heal" the outside in the flame, then anneal. They are obviously still not as strong as regular beads, but they are pretty and I have some that I have had for years that are still ok. I would string them into necklaces, but I would not put them on bracelets. Bracelets take to much abuse.
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2008-01-28, 8:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JameyLynn
Red, you are right on. Go ahead and plunge the bead into water. Then take it back out and "heal" the outside in the flame, then anneal. They are obviously still not as strong as regular beads, but they are pretty and I have some that I have had for years that are still ok. I would string them into necklaces, but I would not put them on bracelets. Bracelets take to much abuse.
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Thanks JameyLynn! You're the best! I've been wanting to know this for a while and the only part I wasn't sure on was the healing in the flame part. Does the bead like to go flying? Do you need to go slow? I would imagine the glass likes to scare the crap out of you by jumping off the bead but maybe I'm wrong.
Oh! I'm so excited!!
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