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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #1  
Old 2008-03-27, 10:48am
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Default I HATE green

Just want to rant and rave. I think I have about 10000 different kinds of
green boro (I'm a BIT compulsive) - so unfortunately, I don't remember
which ones I used.
I was going through my bead stash to make some bracelets and the
frigging green beads have cracks and checking. Aaaaaarrrrggghhh.

My fault.
So pissed.
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  #2  
Old 2008-03-27, 12:53pm
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Sorry about that, I really feel ya there Karen.. There's always things I want to do with some of the greens that I just can't because they WILL crack (those damn "sparkle" and other chrome greens).
They look sooo friggin awesome under heavy clear, but noooo. pfff.
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  #3  
Old 2008-03-27, 12:55pm
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'zactly.
These beads are just freaking beautiful - and I do love green.
...maybe I should call a priest. OUT demons of cracking! OUT!
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  #4  
Old 2008-03-27, 1:06pm
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LOL, pretty sure I told a few of those damn colors to go to hell..then before long temptation takes over and I try again..and crrrack! Doh!
It's mostly the more GA Sparkle (Neptune and Aquatic lately) colors that I've had trouble with, I've read all the data sheets about the chrome colors growing incompatible aventurine crystals while working but I'm not quite sure how to prevent that.
They say flame chemistry can be to blame, like working in a reducing flame before encasing, but that doesn't explain why the Neptune Sparkle frit cracks when I put it on the INSIDE of clear tubing..maybe just from being heated to much or too long. I don't know..and I hate wasting beads to find out, although if it is possible to use it how I want without cracking, it would be worth a few junk beads being that it looks so cool. If I ever figure it out then I'll be sure to let you know..
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Last edited by evolvingBeau; 2008-03-27 at 1:13pm.
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  #5  
Old 2008-03-27, 1:12pm
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karen,
I was having a lot of problems with green (my favorite color). I have had a bit more success lately - what are you using?
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  #6  
Old 2008-03-27, 2:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nancytobey View Post
karen,
I was having a lot of problems with green (my favorite color). I have had a bit more success lately - what are you using?
I wish I could tell you. Ref my 1st post where I said I own 10000 greens.
They are both sparkly greens - so that may be a clue there.

..and BTW Nancy, I LOVE your beads. Your color pallet is amazing!
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  #7  
Old 2008-03-27, 2:35pm
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Thanks for the compliments Karen! Here is what I do with the sparkly greens (most of them I avoid, but I have found the Trautman Art Glass to be pretty stable). I usually make a thin core of clear - then the green -(and about a million other little bits of color). If I case it - I try to do a partial casing, or a very thin casing at the most. I set up my work days by color - so when I am using the greens - and aqua azul - I house my kiln around 995 while I am working - then I ramp to 1050 for the shortest anneal cycle possible - I have found that holding the greens too long at that temp causes problems - so I go about 30 minutes - 1 hour depending on the size of the work. Good luck with the problems - I know it is a pain in the butt, but it helps if you experiment with one green color at a time.
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  #8  
Old 2008-03-27, 7:19pm
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yeah look what a green that had always behaved itself did as soon as I tried to make a marble last year:
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  #9  
Old 2008-03-27, 7:20pm
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that is the underside of an implosion flower you cant see the checking from the top but it still ruined the marble
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  #10  
Old 2008-03-27, 9:12pm
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Thanks for the tips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nancytobey View Post
Thanks for the compliments Karen! Here is what I do with the sparkly greens (most of them I avoid, but I have found the Trautman Art Glass to be pretty stable). I usually make a thin core of clear - then the green -(and about a million other little bits of color). If I case it - I try to do a partial casing, or a very thin casing at the most. I set up my work days by color - so when I am using the greens - and aqua azul - I house my kiln around 995 while I am working - then I ramp to 1050 for the shortest anneal cycle possible - I have found that holding the greens too long at that temp causes problems - so I go about 30 minutes - 1 hour depending on the size of the work. Good luck with the problems - I know it is a pain in the butt, but it helps if you experiment with one green color at a time.
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  #11  
Old 2008-03-28, 3:38am
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Another biggie is to keep your flame environment oxidized while you're working the green. Once it's encased, it's not a big deal... but while you're working green, turn the oxy up or the propane down.
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  #12  
Old 2008-03-28, 2:05pm
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The only green that I've found that works well encased is NS Forest Green. Someone told me Momka's Ivy worked well too, but I've never tried it.
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  #13  
Old 2008-03-28, 4:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nancytobey View Post
Thanks for the compliments Karen! Here is what I do with the sparkly greens (most of them I avoid, but I have found the Trautman Art Glass to be pretty stable). I usually make a thin core of clear - then the green -(and about a million other little bits of color). If I case it - I try to do a partial casing, or a very thin casing at the most. I set up my work days by color - so when I am using the greens - and aqua azul - I house my kiln around 995 while I am working - then I ramp to 1050 for the shortest anneal cycle possible - I have found that holding the greens too long at that temp causes problems - so I go about 30 minutes - 1 hour depending on the size of the work. Good luck with the problems - I know it is a pain in the butt, but it helps if you experiment with one green color at a time.
Thanks for posting this Nancy, this is the part I forgot about...I haven't experimented with it but I do recall reading that along with the flame chemistry, long garaging and/or annealing can also cause aventurine crystal growth and the resulting coe changes in the chrome glasses..still not sure if this would help for my intents and purposes..have to test it out and see.
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  #14  
Old 2008-03-28, 4:29pm
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ive found my checking is also varying on which brand of clear I used....
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  #15  
Old 2008-03-31, 6:46pm
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i had a problem with ga peacock blue, cus its also a chrome based color. someone else told me that what you have to do is encase it before you pull the stringer, like wrap it round some 8 or 10 mil, then encase that with clear, and then pull ur stringer. my friend said that the key to it is that you should always flame cut your stringer, if not, the point that u snipped it is where it will check from. and yea he said make ur green ur last piece into the kiln cus if u garage it too long it will check. and also like mr smiley said, keep it in an oxy flame.
that said, i just never used that color on the inside again, although i am going to try maybe tonite or tomorrow nite. the thing is it started to check like 3 days after i annealed it so im a lil scared to sell anything with it inside it.
thanks cosmo for that tip on what green works.. ive had a few requests for io green stuff and im always hesitant to say ok.
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  #16  
Old 2008-04-01, 6:28pm
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I never dreamed long garaging or annealing could cause the problem. If anything I've increased my annealing time to try and prevent the problem. No wonder I keep having green check in my marbles. Has anyone tried garaging their marbles at a lower temp and then raising it just for annealing?
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Old 2008-04-01, 7:28pm
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Have any of you tried mixing the green with the clear? Could you encase the green with clear then mix it up real good?
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  #18  
Old 2008-04-01, 7:59pm
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Quote:
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Have any of you tried mixing the green with the clear? Could you encase the green with clear then mix it up real good?
Now REALLY Heidi. That would require work - and you KNOW how
I feel about that!
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  #19  
Old 2008-04-01, 8:11pm
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I was just wondering if it would change the COE just enough to make it less CRANKY.... um I mean cracky!
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Old 2008-04-02, 12:24pm
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I mix Momka's green Ivy and NS Jade together in a 50/50 mix. I've been using it for leaves and stems in implosion marbles and I haven't had one check yet. Here is an example:

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  #21  
Old 2008-04-02, 2:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjglass View Post
I mix Momka's green Ivy and NS Jade together in a 50/50 mix. I've been using it for leaves and stems in implosion marbles and I haven't had one check yet. Here is an example:


thanks for the recipe.. you totally rock my socks and i wish there was a smiley for that
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  #22  
Old 2008-04-02, 2:57pm
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You can vote on the thread above!
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Old 2008-04-02, 11:01pm
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Jason, you had shared that recipe with me at OT and I tried it. Must be user error on my part because I did get checking. The thing that frustrates me is sometimes a marble will be fine and then another in the same kiln batch, with the same green stringer will check. I really think it's something I'm doing wrong. Now I'm wondering if garaging at 1050 is too hot when the marble sits in there for many hours. I'm trying hard to remember if the bad ones were at the start of my day, or the end.

I've also wondered if it has to do with the marble not being consistently hot going into the kiln. Since my final punty is usually on the bottom where the green is, that half of the marble is warmer than the top when it goes into the kiln. Perhaps I need to give the whole thing a twirl in the flame first?

Great marble! You need to quit traveling so you can come to OT and show us your new marbles. We miss you and Heather!
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Old 2008-04-03, 3:50am
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Thanks Kathy. I'm not working the marble any different than you are, I do garage at 1000 though (usually soaks in there for a a few hours at least) and ramp up to 1050 for two hours then I do my ramp down. I finish with the last scar at the green end like you do as well. It's possible that you may have too much jade and not enough green ivy in the mix or that it needed to be mixed up a bit more. I had one check the other night that I mixed up too fast and had too much Jade in it. I've also had stringers where portions were a bit thicker or not mixed as well that checked when other mibs have not off the same stringer. It's not fool proof by any means, but the only mix I've had good success with. Momka does mix a fair amount of clear into her glass which is why I think the green ivy is a good base to use. Try mixing other greens into it and see what you get.

Also, just a quick time saver, I will do smaller test implosions to try different colors and check for any issues. This will save you some time from making a big marble and having the results not be that great.

I'm thinking I'm coming to OT tomorrow, but nothing new to show. I've been making a lot of wonky hollows as I have been trying to learn tubing techniques. Heather is subbing so she won't be able to make it
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  #25  
Old 2008-04-03, 5:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwhim View Post
Jason, you had shared that recipe with me at OT and I tried it. Must be user error on my part because I did get checking. The thing that frustrates me is sometimes a marble will be fine and then another in the same kiln batch, with the same green stringer will check. I really think it's something I'm doing wrong. Now I'm wondering if garaging at 1050 is too hot when the marble sits in there for many hours. I'm trying hard to remember if the bad ones were at the start of my day, or the end.

I've also wondered if it has to do with the marble not being consistently hot going into the kiln. Since my final punty is usually on the bottom where the green is, that half of the marble is warmer than the top when it goes into the kiln. Perhaps I need to give the whole thing a twirl in the flame first?

Great marble! You need to quit traveling so you can come to OT and show us your new marbles. We miss you and Heather!
what kind of torch are you using, and what is your oxy source?
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Old 2008-04-03, 3:15pm
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Eric, I work on a Betta with NG and a M-15. I think it gives plenty of oxy for that torch because I can pull great colors from the APs. The marbles I've been making have crayon colors, so I try to not overheat the whole thing as the design is melting in, then I crank up the heat.

Jason, it is possible I was off on my 50/50 mix and I'm sure I hurried it along because mixing glass isn't my favorite thing to do. Lesson learned, will have to try again. Glad you can make it to OT. Tell Heather Hi!
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Old 2008-04-03, 8:20pm
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No OT, just had something come up .

Give mixing it up a try again. If you are going to error one way or another, use more Green Ivy than Jade.
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  #28  
Old 2008-04-03, 8:23pm
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Thanks Jason, will do. I packed up the boro tonight, so guess that's what I'm working tomorrow. Will miss you!
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Old 2008-04-04, 2:48pm
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If anyone here wants to try Trautman's aventurines, I can send out a sampler of sparkly greens to the first five people who write me a PM here.... Nancy likes them, and I think you will too, if you get a chance to try them. We would like feedback from those who get them, however -- we are trying to decide whether to keep making this many variations.
SO - PM me now to get a sampler of TAG Leprechaun, Sphagnum Moss, Blue Sphagnum and a few of the EXP Sphagnums. These will be a couple of 6-8" pieces of each color.
Yay! I love my job! ~Jenny@ TAG www.taglass.com
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Old 2008-04-04, 7:26pm
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PMing you -- I'll be glad to post results or give you feedback. Thanks for offering this!
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