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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

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  #1  
Old 2010-01-23, 11:00pm
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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Default Smoke Bomb Test

Hi All,
I wanted to share my results of the smoke bomb test on did on my funnel style vent system.

I am not going to give specifics at this time because this is only a test.

This video is showing test results of my ventilation system. It is not a recommendation on how anyone should provide ventilation for their glass shop !!
Hire a Professional, and do your own research.
I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHOICES YOU MAKE !!

I have 60 smoke bombs left for more testing if we come up with other ideas

This was only a test not a guarantee that is is safe.

AcidFly

http://img697.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smoketest.mp4
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  #2  
Old 2010-01-24, 6:54am
NMLinda NMLinda is offline
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Acidfly - thanks for starting this thread with your first test. The funnel style vent system, as can be seen in your video, intrigues quite a few of us, myself included. I'm glad to see that you did the test with your torch running. Just to put things in context, would you mind sharing a little about your system? Things that would be helpful to know is how big the rectangular opening of your mini-hood is, what diameter vent pipe you used, how many cfm your fan is, and what type of torch you used in your demo. What would also be helpful to know is some idea how far away your hood is from your torch. It looks like you've moved it quite a bit closer than you had it in some of your earlier posts. Maybe a useful measurement would be from the center of your hood opening to the end of your torch.

The straight-on clips you provided are very interesting. There were a few things I couldn't tell about how the smoke was moving from that angle, however, that I think would be really good to know. Would you mind taking a video from the side? A clip from the side with the torch running, someone sitting at the torch splitting the flame with a glass rod and a smoke bomb released under the torch, as you did in your first video would be very valuable to see.

Thanks,
Linda
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  #3  
Old 2010-01-24, 7:11am
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I agree with Linda, side view shots, with person seated at torch station and mandrels or rods in flame (actual working conditions) would be even better proof your system works....

Also you do a disservice to all the rest of the people who have a interest in your design by not sharing details....

And I congratulate you for going the extra mile of putting together test, it is something very rarely done... Most of the time people just post a still picture of a torch in front of hood that actually proves very little....

Dale
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  #4  
Old 2010-01-24, 7:36am
Glow Joe Glow Joe is offline
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awesome!!!!! too bad you didn't have white smoke......neighbors would have thought that you elected a new Pope.......lol!!!!!
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  #5  
Old 2010-01-24, 8:47am
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I did a similar test with incense to test for plume disruption when working in the flame with mandrels and rods of glass. Basically, there wasn't any significant plume disruption. The smoke followed the same path up and out the vent. My DH described it like standing in a stream of water. The water just moves around your leg and continues along the same path.
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  #6  
Old 2010-01-24, 9:50am
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Excellent Steve! I have the same system as Steve has. I'm just about to put the final wiring on it. I too did the incense test on it. Very successful. Thanks for doing the video. You rock!
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  #7  
Old 2010-01-24, 4:59pm
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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Thx guys
ok will do some more tomorrow with your idea's
this is going to be fun

AcidFly
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  #8  
Old 2010-01-24, 7:19pm
NMLinda NMLinda is offline
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Wonderful! Look forward to seeing the side shots. Thanks for doing them

Linda
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  #9  
Old 2010-01-24, 8:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidFly View Post

I have 60 smoke bombs left for more testing if we come up with other ideas

AcidFly

http://img697.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smoketest.mp4
Love the Purple smoke bomb!
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  #10  
Old 2010-01-25, 5:46am
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Thanks for sharing .... I just did the same exact thing but went a step further just to see the circulation of the shop .... the shop is 22 ft by 40ft so I did the same smoke bomb test you have shown in the video and then went to all 4 corners of the room and one at a time set them off ..... the reason was my store is about 2200 sq ft ... but the studio in the left hand corner of the store is around 22 x 40 ... I made it as air tight as I could so not to suck out all the cold A/C air out of the main store .... I busted 2 basement type vents in the block wall on the back of the store for the fresh air makeup .... from all 4 corners you could see the circulation from all corners ... was a great thing to see as you could really tell what the makeup air was doing .... from all corners it jetted straight to the intakes.
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  #11  
Old 2010-01-25, 6:02am
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Hey....glassshack

Glad to see you back amongst the world of the living......

Dale
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  #12  
Old 2010-01-25, 6:26am
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great video!!!! and your ventilation looks like it is working well. one thing i would suggest is if you do another smoke test. place the smoke bomb at the same level and near the end of the torch and have hole pointed back where you sit to lampwork. the smoke plume will be forced backward to get a situation similar to what i was describing in the back flow thread. your funnel design is much better than most that i have seen here at LE. good job on your ventilation and the cool smoke bomb videos.
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Last edited by laserglass; 2010-01-25 at 6:31am.
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  #13  
Old 2010-01-25, 7:41am
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Please send smoke bombs LOL!!
I would like to see what would be the result if you held the Smoke bomb parallel to the vent opening but above the torch area ( where a rod would be held) see #C
My vent system is most like #B. But I was considering putting some kind of plexiglass baffle above to capture any escaped fumes above the opening of the vent.
#A is a typical hood system
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Last edited by cadia; 2010-01-25 at 7:54am.
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  #14  
Old 2010-01-25, 8:52am
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Well I'm going to try some of these idea today but not sure if it will pass them all as the smoke bombs are quite powerful "force it comes out" and if i point it outward not sure if it would catch it all. It will clear the room of smoke over time but don't think it will catch the smoke if its pointing out away from the vent as like i said it comes out of the bomb with some real force, more then anything that would be in the flame.
But i will try to a point, as these things stink bad lol and i would hate it to get into the house, carpet, furniture, etc.
But I will try
You guys got any idea on how to slow the force of the bomb, I mean these things kick, it will roll away or jump out of your hand when it ignites. I thinking we will never get that kind of force from something in the flame so might not be a true test and probably fail.
but we will try.

thx
AcidFly
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  #15  
Old 2010-01-25, 9:04am
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Please be careful!
Don't have an accident trying to be safe.
Reminding me I want to cover the exposed hoses with foil near my tabletop.
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  #16  
Old 2010-01-25, 9:23am
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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O ya very nice illustrations you gave Cadia wish i could use a paint program that good lol my stuff looks like a 3 year old was coloring in a color book lmao

AcidFly
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  #17  
Old 2010-01-26, 5:54am
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Heyas Dale, still alive and kicking friend ... those are great illustrations cadia ... I'm going to go for the first picture as that's how I build all my hoods ... I do wish I would have made mine wider, more towards the torch .... it works but could work so much better .... my thinking is when you create a good air tight hood it creates a vacuum from all corners of the hood .... when the "plume" is created from sticking something into the flame I would think since the hood is so much closer to the edge of the torch then the other two pictures you would get a better "vent" action from it? I'm by no means an expert but I have built 5 studios in 4 years and have done so much research building it better each time ... thnx to the forums and others sharing what they've learned. Does anyone remember which magazine had the "plume" pictures? It was either Flow or GlassLine ... the pictures were great in showing really what happens to all those fumes when you disrupt that very directional flame.
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  #18  
Old 2010-01-26, 9:04am
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I am going to break my promise to Bill Harrison who did original study around June 2007 and show a couple of pictures ... From his original article he allowed me to review before publication...

First one is of "general plumb" with no ventilation pulling fumes or nothing (glass) in plume...



And image below is how plume deviated when glass rod was inserted into flame...



Hope I don't end up in copyright court....

Dale
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  #19  
Old 2010-01-26, 10:51am
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Very interesting Dale thx and Hope you don't get into trouble.
those are side shots right ?

Sorry i could not do tests yesterday as we got a weird wind storm and snow and it was hitting the exhaust shoot out side and was make the fan very in RPM so I didn't torch or anything.
The winds still up but it has shifted direction so I might be able to get it done today.

AcidFly
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  #20  
Old 2010-01-26, 11:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidFly View Post
Very interesting Dale thx and Hope you don't get into trouble.
those are side shots right ?

Sorry i could not do tests yesterday as we got a weird wind storm and snow and it was hitting the exhaust shoot out side and was make the fan very in RPM so I didn't torch or anything.
The winds still up but it has shifted direction so I might be able to get it done today.

AcidFly
Correct, those are side shots...

Dale
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Old 2010-01-27, 5:59am
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Great pictures and great examples, thnx Dale .... wish I could have been around when the pictures were taken ... only because I would love to see the different plumes as you stuck a 7mm regular rod .... a nice gather of say 20mm flat lollipop and so on just to record the different plumes ... I would think the more mass you put in the flame would do some serious "plumage". Good stuff, really important stuff
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Old 2010-01-27, 7:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassshack View Post
Great pictures and great examples, thnx Dale .... wish I could have been around when the pictures were taken ... only because I would love to see the different plumes as you stuck a 7mm regular rod .... a nice gather of say 20mm flat lollipop and so on just to record the different plumes ... I would think the more mass you put in the flame would do some serious "plumage". Good stuff, really important stuff
you are correct. a large flat lollipop would have many time the disruption to the flame plume.
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Old 2010-01-27, 1:10pm
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I did about the same tests but used blackpowder as a smoke generator. Had trouble locating some of the ingredients for web based smoke bombs. Where did you get the colored smoke bombs?
PJ
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Old 2010-01-27, 4:38pm
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Bill Harrison's pictures are among the most compelling I've seen posted - worth their weight in gold, in my opinion. As attractive as vent systems B and C in Cadia's post are, I've never been willing to either use one myself, build one for myself, or advocate one because of these pictures and the supporting science that predicts them. From the smoke tests I've seen posted by people with vent system A in Cadia's post, the tests appear to support the analysis that goes behind the design of these vent systems and the fact that they don't seem to have much turbulence (if they have sides to the table).

Cadia's picture for A is a little misleading in that the fan, as she's drawn the vent duct, would draw more from the back of the hood, not uniformly downward under the whole hood. The actual laminar flow of the plume to the hood exit would therefore be more diagonal, away from the face. This can be seen in the smoke test videos folks have posted with that kind of system. That said, and being short in the saddle, I've wondered if there aren't improvements that can be made to this classic design, like a 'sneeze guard' - I've seen those on chemical vent hoods.

Regardless, I'm open to learning something new, so I'm looking forward to seeing Acidfly's side shots as soon as the weather cooperates for him.

Linda
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Old 2010-01-27, 7:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMLinda View Post
Bill Harrison's pictures are among the most compelling I've seen posted - worth their weight in gold, in my opinion. As attractive as vent systems B and C in Cadia's post are, I've never been willing to either use one myself, build one for myself, or advocate one because of these pictures and the supporting science that predicts them. From the smoke tests I've seen posted by people with vent system A in Cadia's post, the tests appear to support the analysis that goes behind the design of these vent systems and the fact that they don't seem to have much turbulence (if they have sides to the table).

Cadia's picture for A is a little misleading in that the fan, as she's drawn the vent duct, would draw more from the back of the hood, not uniformly downward under the whole hood. The actual laminar flow of the plume to the hood exit would therefore be more diagonal, away from the face. This can be seen in the smoke test videos folks have posted with that kind of system. That said, and being short in the saddle, I've wondered if there aren't improvements that can be made to this classic design, like a 'sneeze guard' - I've seen those on chemical vent hoods.

Regardless, I'm open to learning something new, so I'm looking forward to seeing Acidfly's side shots as soon as the weather cooperates for him.

Linda
I've been told that if you place the 8' or better yet 10' intake dead center of the hood and add baffles to the sides, inside the hood, that it makes the pull, left to right and front to back much more powerful in the vacume of the hood ... hope that makes sense I'm about to try it on both my hoods and see if there's any difference in the tests. I'm a firm believer in sides from the hood to the desk good and air tight.
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  #26  
Old 2010-01-29, 8:28am
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Paul Stankard has initiated a study on the ventilation problem and is organizing a group of experts in the field to address this issue. This group will contain professional lamp workers, ventilation experts, air quality specialists and is even "trying to find a lawyer to volunteer and guide the conversation in a constructive way without worry about liable issues". They will be doing air quality tests to define the actual dangers we face as lamp workers and studying how well different ventilation systems evacuated the toxins we are all concerned with in the hopes of finally finding a solution to this problem and
It will be nice to finally have some real world studies and results with solutions.
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Old 2010-01-29, 10:07am
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well the weather finally broke here and the wind is gone for now But as I read I see I'm not needed any more as the experts have taken over as it wouldn't mater what a non expert would have to say about it lol .
guess it takes a expert to watch colored smoke get sucked up a pipe and a gas sniffer to see if there is any unburned gas or fumes left lol I just hope the tests are done with the vent on as what difference does it make what things do if the vents are off lol.

l8tr all
Have a great day !
AcidFly

Last edited by AcidFly; 2010-01-29 at 10:11am.
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Old 2010-01-29, 10:37am
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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but I'm still going to do my tests hopefully today and have the video's for you this weekend

AcidFly
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Old 2010-01-29, 11:00am
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Can't wait to see it Acidfly.
Yours is the same system as I am using in my shop and I am amazed at how well it works. I can stick a 2 x 2 piece of wood directly in the flame where a glass rod wood be and not smell any smoke or see any for that matter. I guess it is due due to the complete burning of the organic matter in the intense heat of the torch. If I drop the wood just below the flame I get a nice plume of smoke off the wood that goes directly into the collector. Even tried it with a 30mm tube in the flame and the smoking wood just beneath that. Same results. All smoke went straight to the collector.
Seems pretty good to me.
I am very interested in seeing the Paul Stankard groups results. Its nice to see professionals in the field working on this rather than venders and hobbyists with self professed knowledge or good search, copy and paste skills.
Its time to see some real world results.
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Old 2010-01-29, 11:04am
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lol off topic !! You do know Christmas is over right ? if not sorry you missed it LMAO
or are you getting ready for next year already ?

hahahahahaahahaahaa

AcidFly
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