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  #541  
Old 2009-02-06, 9:57pm
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WOW Daniel, that is a very rude and condescending post. I will never buy from you based on this post alone. Asking if working condition in the factory where you get your glass is not attacking you nor trying to steel your business. As an example, many people questioned CIM in the beginning and the owners brought forth information about working conditions in their factory as China is historically well known for poor working conditions, as is India. If you were not aware of the bad working conditions in India and the reports of these then you are naive.
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  #542  
Old 2009-02-06, 9:58pm
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I have been watching and waiting for answers.. Well, now I have them..... That rant closed the deal. No Devardi glass for me.
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  #543  
Old 2009-02-06, 10:12pm
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Wow! I'm in shock and completely offended by your post Daniel. You have not helped youself or your wife by posting as you have. I kick myself for having made the mistake of purchasing a sampler from you and your wife. I was just *too* excited about the possibility of new glass and was willing to give the benefit of doubt. Lesson learned. I will never be purchasing from you again.

BTW - you can check all my posts - I've always tried to be helpful.

ETA: I'm editing my post since several posts have been deleted and I want to clarify my statment above.

I think if Natasha and/or Daniel had simply stated that they didn't know the conditions of the factory but they'll find out. That they had a plan to take a tour, etc... and once they have, that they plan to disclose info. Or if they had stated something like, they were currently working on a distributorship contract with them and until they have been signed they don't feel comfortable disclosing our supplier's name, etc, I truly believe everyone would have given them a chance to find out. Unfortunately, they way the questions were answered weren't clear. The responses were vague and it seemed like they barely knew any info or were hiding something about the factory and only had the info provided by their contact. It wasn't until later that Natasha mentioned actually planning to tour the factory. Also unfortunate, I believe prettyangel (Natasha) has deleted all their posts as well as several other posts currently under review by the moderator so I can't go back and quote them. This also makes this thread hard to read and disjointed.

I did purchase a 3.5 lb sampler since I was excited about the new colors - I have no idea what to do with it now. I can not in good conscious sell any bead made with this glass. What disappointed me the most and the reason that I will never buy from them again is how Daniel responded below (btw, I am not threatening to not buy again, it is a fact - I will never buy from them again!) I found the post below very insulting, completely offensive and downright unproffessional. Regardless of the factory conditions (which I was willing to give them the benefit of doubt at that point), I just couldn't fathom responding to customers as done so by Daniel. And while I can see that Daniel was trying to protect/help his wife - that is not customer service and it is not right to lash out your frustrations on a public forum. I do believe that phone calls etc were uncalled for but they should have been handled and addressed on those calls.


Quote:
Originally Posted by prettyangel View Post
This is Daniel, Natasha’s husband. In the very short period of time that we have been selling Devardi glass, we have made some great acquaintances. There are truly some wonderful people involved in the glass world. However, there are also a few who have done nothing but try to railroad our business. These are people who no doubt sell glass themselves, have friends who sell glass, receive free glass from vendors for testing or somehow are affected by us selling glass. Check their websites. They are also people who do very little but spend huge amounts of time on these threads, complaining, criticizing and trying to hurt people. Check their other threads. This thread even took on that tone before we even were known, and it has steadily worsened. It is shameful. So many good people on this thread have decided to completely leave LE because of this small handful of cantankerous people who are out to spoil other people’s lives and our business, only because they can’t handle our competition.

First of all, the only reason people want to know the source of our supplier is to interfere with our sale of this glass. You know who you are. You have tried so many ways to find out our supplier. Now you are accusing a great company of child labor. How dare you! You are hypocrites too, as your house if full of many things made in China, India and many other impoverished countries. And your items on many of your websites that you have for sale were made in India and China. So get off your high horse.

Additionally, you know for a fact that doing business with impoverished countries only benefits those countries. China and India would be nowhere near where they are if it weren’t for us doing business with them.

I am not going to reveal my sources because my business would be over if I did. And then the suppliers would not be able to improve their conditions you so loudly but falsely proclaim you are after. If you have nothing better to do than to post awful things on the internet, I feel bad for you. Your lives are small. My wife is a wonderful, wonderful person. You don’t know her. She is a true humanitarian, and you have no right to treat her like dirt. She would never buy or sell glass made by children. If you don’t want to buy our glass, don’t buy it. But move on and leave us and the rest of the people who are interested in it alone. You don’t have to ruin our business just because you don’t want to buy our glass. Find some other thread to bash people on. Daniel (I apologize to all the wonderful people on this thread that have to read this, but I am fed up.)

Also wanted to add NMLinda's quote on post # 580, edited, with what I agree with and supports my added comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NMLinda View Post
.....
Daniel, I too, found your post dissappointing - unprofessional, frankly. You and Natasha have received a wealth of extremely valuable feedback regarding the quality and characteristics of the product you are representing - all for free. You are trying to launch a new business and, in my opinion, need to be far more objective than your were in your post if you want to survive and thrive. From an objective perspective, you must agree that the preponderance of evidence regarding common Indian business conditions is against your (unsubstantiated) claims. About all you accomplished by your post was to make the very customers you want to have buy your product feel that they have had their intelligence insulted and therefore disinclined to buy from you. I'm sure that's not the result you wanted.
.....
Linda
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Last edited by Raven Wylder; 2009-02-09 at 11:20am. Reason: ETA: wanted to add some clarification now that some of the posts were deleted.
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  #544  
Old 2009-02-06, 10:21pm
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I am relatively new to lampworking also. Was considering buying some Devardi glass, but after reading Daniel's extremely rude and nasty post I have lost all interest. I have never had a problem with Natasha's posts as she attempted to answer questions and address concerns.

Daniel, there are people on this board that have TONS of experience and you have just come in here and pretty much told everyone here that they aren't worth wiping off your shoes. Speaking of shoes, how do they taste?
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  #545  
Old 2009-02-06, 10:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam View Post
Bubby, I'm sorry, but every other glass seller that we use identifies who the manufacturer is of their glass. They will tell you name, address and phone number. Ask anyone where any of the glass comes from, other than Devardi, and you will get the answer. Why should Devardi not be held to the same standard?

"The rod I got had a bump with some impurities in it (looked like a small piece of gravel, I swear) but I just heated around it and pulled it off." Those are called stones and are caused by improper mixing of the glass.

The bubbles and scum are caused by not fining the glass, shortening the glassmaking process by at least 8 hours, and signifying improperly made glass.
Ahhh, that explains what the "rocks" are in the "rocky-rubino" (which I happen to adore...I'm such a weirdo...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara View Post
WOW Daniel, that is a very rude and condescending post. I will never buy from you based on this post alone. Asking if working condition in the factory where you get your glass is not attacking you nor trying to steel your business. As an example, many people questioned CIM in the beginning and the owners brought forth information about working conditions in their factory as China is historically well known for poor working conditions, as is India. If you were not aware of the bad working conditions in India and the reports of these then you are naive.
She's right--the CIM owners were COMPLETELY grilled regarding the origins of their glass!

And...as far as the glass...I like the black--it's easy to "silver up"...but the other couple colors I've tried so far...omg, explosion city....shock, pop, shock, crack...actually, even the black was cracking off the rod 1-2" down the rod even after I had it good & glowing & was wrapping it onto the mandrel...*incredibly* frustrating for me (and I work fairly cool & rather slow)--and every time I put down a rod, it was like it had to be "pre-heated" all over again--also rather annoying--the "melty end" would re-shock every time I'd re-use the rod.
I'll be playing more next weekend to see if I can get some better results...but this is by far the weirdest glass I've used (And I randomly swap between Jess's vintage 90COE, any 104 I can get my hands on including Lauscha, a bit of veiled 96COE, etc...so it's not like I've never tried anything but moretti )
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  #546  
Old 2009-02-06, 10:53pm
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I would like everyone to be scrutinized about every aspect of their business and product that they are trying to sell down to where the chair they sit in came from. Where the tweezers they pick up glass with came from which in all probability, is a sweat shop in CHINA. What about every item of clothing that comes from Macy's. Have all of the factories been checked to make sure your shirt was not made by children from Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Myanmar, Bangladesh, and so on. Who picked the produce in your refrigerator. It is impossible to know where every single item in your homes came from. Do I agree with it? No, but I do know if we take this income away from them, a worse fate will fall upon them. You were told that this factory does not use children and yet you refuse to believe it. I don't think your customers would make you lay down and die trying to get this kind of information out of you and then not like the answer.

If you think not buying this glass is going to help these people, think again. Giving them income is better than starving them out of work. And besides, this is all a moot point according to Daniel and Natasha who have repeadely said there are NO CHILDREn in this factory. You have every right to research whatever you want, but I don't think bringing down a business is necessary until you have all of the facts FIRST. This is so unfair. I'm sure Daniel has received more flack then has been posted here and his response I'm sure goes beyond this thread.

ETA Let's not forget about the famous Italian glass masters who stared in factories at a very young age. And I'm sure no one would have approved of the conditions. Let's not be hypocritical.

I hope the few dollars I spent on this glass goes to improve the quality of life for the workers in the factory. I don't normally post in these threads but I felt compelled to do so. I will not be responding to this thread anymore other than direct information about the glass in an artistic fashion.
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Last edited by glassactcc; 2009-02-06 at 10:58pm.
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  #547  
Old 2009-02-06, 10:53pm
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I think every business person should take another read of Daniel's post and commit it to memory as how not to deal with potential customer issues and questions. I was thinking about telling Angelique that she could order a 5 to 10 pound sampler of this glass to play with. Don't think I will now unless I see a lot of changes. I wasn't so concerned with the origins (I have been to India and the whole country is in horrible conditions) but I am concerned with the attitude of the distributor that I have to deal with being good.
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  #548  
Old 2009-02-06, 11:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Ewing View Post
I think every business person should take another read of Daniel's post and commit it to memory as how not to deal with potential customer issues and questions. I was thinking about telling Angelique that she could order a 5 to 10 pound sampler of this glass to play with. Don't think I will now unless I see a lot of changes. I wasn't so concerned with the origins (I have been to India and the whole country to in horrible conditions) but I am concerned with the attitude of the distributor that I have to deal with being good.
I couldn't agree more. I was actually on the fence about this whole thing and I thought I'd wait and see how things evolved. I'm truly shocked by the way a business person would publicly address customers and potential customers. That made the decision for me. What a way to kill a business in one fail swoop.
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  #549  
Old 2009-02-06, 11:10pm
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I've worked some of the colors of this glass and have had to anneal some of the rods to make them workable - but have been pleased with how they have reacted once done so - there are some unique colors here. I have not been disappointed in how they performed or considered the canes inferior in any respect - I have paid considerably more for some notable Effetre that has been equally shocky!

I do not buy glass because it is cheap ... and conversely because it is expensive - if it is a color I want, then I buy it. I have glass that costs $6 a pound to glass that costs over $100 a pound ... It's all about the color to me.

I have to admit I was sitting on the fence on this issue - I've been a silver smith for 17 years and know the realities of purchasing pearls, gemstones and other commotities produced in third world countries for the lust of the American consumer capitalist market (who still ask if I will reduce my price by 50%) - here we want things cheap and to hell with the conditions required to make such goods - it's the way the market here works. Want a cheap rolling mill - Pepe??? Harbor Freight??? Go for it ... a lot of my hammers are made in Pakistan - I understand the repercussions of choosing this choice of tools.

I also have tools made in Germany, Swizterland and other fine tool making countries - but I pay 10x more for some of these premium tools - I bet many here went for Pepe tools ... or purchase others from Harbor Freight! How do you think they can produce tools at such a competitive cost? They are produced in India, China and Pakistan ... labor costs are low (and human rights equally so - child labor can be involved). How did I begin my tool collection? I bought cheap ... tools from third world countries and have only recently begun to afford the more expensive tools.

It's the same for the glass ... however ...I admired the way the CIM issues were handled - now CIM is a respected glass supplier/manufacturer ... people no longer question the working conditions of the factories that make CIM glass. It's taken that no children are used or abused in the making of this glass, the presentation of this glass is beyond exquisite .. (although I really prefer longer rods) ... and this glass has become acceptable within this community.

Daniel ... your wife has been nothing but courteous and deserving of respect in her replies imho (we don't have to agree with that sentiment do we ...???) but attacking this community does nothing but hurt your cause ... leave Natasha to do the talking.

Respectfully,

Sadie
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  #550  
Old 2009-02-06, 11:12pm
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Very well put, thank you.

If you ask me Daniel and Natasha have been very patient, have answered everyone's questions as politely as possible through out this whole inquisition and it sounds to me like Daniel has hit his breaking point. I don't know how I'd respond if I were in his shoes. I know I wouldn't be happy if my ethics and business dealings were being questioned repeatedly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glassactcc View Post
I would like everyone to be scrutinized about every aspect of their business and product that they are trying to sell down to where the chair they sit in came from. Where the tweezers they pick up glass with came from which in all probability, is a sweat shop in CHINA. What about every item of clothing that comes from Macy's. Have all of the factories been checked to make sure your shirt was not made by children from Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Myanmar, Bangladesh, and so on. Who picked the produce in your refrigerator. It is impossible to know where every single item in your homes came from. Do I agree with it? No, but I do know if we take this income away from them, a worse fate will fall upon them. You were told that this factory does not use children and yet you refuse to believe it. I don't think your customers would make you lay down and die trying to get this kind of information out of you and then not like the answer.

If you think not buying this glass is going to help these people, think again. Giving them income is better than starving them out of work. And besides, this is all a moot point according to Daniel and Natasha who have repeadely said there are NO CHILDREn in this factory. You have every right to research whatever you want, but I don't think bringing down a business is necessary until you have all of the facts FIRST. This is so unfair. I'm sure Daniel has received more flack then has been posted here and his response I'm sure goes beyond this thread.

ETA Let's not forget about the famous Italian glass masters who stared in factories at a very young age. And I'm sure no one would have approved of the conditions. Let's not be hypocritical.

I hope the few dollars I spent on this glass goes to improve the quality of life for the workers in the factory. I don't normally post in these threads but I felt compelled to do so. I will not be responding to this thread anymore other than direct information about the glass in an artistic fashion.
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  #551  
Old 2009-02-06, 11:12pm
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Isn't there a rule here on LE that you are not to post under someone else's User Name?
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  #552  
Old 2009-02-06, 11:15pm
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Amy ... I understand Daniels need to hit reply and not take the time to set up a user name.

This is a very incendiary subject and I understand the immediate need to speak!

With respect,

Sadie
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  #553  
Old 2009-02-06, 11:27pm
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Well I know who not to buy my glass from. Any glass supplier or business for that matter should always treat customers and other similar businesses with respect.

I might not have been vocal in this thread before, but I was following it because some of the colors intrigued me. The very public and disrespectful has changed my opinion... I will not be buying this glass.
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  #554  
Old 2009-02-06, 11:38pm
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I am sure his reply was a combination of defending his wife and their business and a breaking point because I am sure they have been flooded with PMs full of nastiness. I may take the unpopular opinion but they are in business.. If I were starting their business, I would in no way give out my suppliers name. She has told you the country of origin, take with it what it implies and make a decision for yourself on whether you buy the glass or don't buy the glass. I for one believe that every single business, big or small, that does business with a company in an impoverished nation in the long run helps them.

There was a 60 minutes or 20/20 episode about the conditions in India and how they are still deplorable by american standards but were getting better. There was a man they spoke to that had to come into the city to work and he had been sleeping on the streets and now that the company he works for has more business and more money, they have allowed them to sleep at the factory which allows him to send home money to his family which has allowed his family to have a roof over their head. There is a trickle down effect. 20 years ago China was a different place than it is now.. It just takes time.. You have to start somewhere.

I for one like the glass. I didn't have the popping or cracking of the rods at all.. I did have one bead looks like a thermal crack and possibly an incompatability crack with my vetrofond clear encasement which is just getting to know new glass. How many colors do we put up with that we can't encase that come from effetre, etc. I will learn its idiosyncrasies. Anyway, here are some beads. Not the best pictures for sure.



metallic black stringer

This next one is the one I boiled the metallic black on.. doesn't look all that great in the photo but its a really cool effect in person.

This one stayed violet, however my photo makes it look kinda gray. It is violet in person.
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  #555  
Old 2009-02-06, 11:39pm
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Keep us posted as to when the Pinks will be back in stock..

Can't wait to try it.
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  #556  
Old 2009-02-06, 11:39pm
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No one treated Natasha like dirt in this entire thread. Unfortunately for you, with a post like that, you may have ruined your business yourself.
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  #557  
Old 2009-02-06, 11:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan View Post
This next one is the one I boiled the metallic black on.. doesn't look all that great in the photo but its a really cool effect in person.
Wow, this is a gorgeous bead!!! And you say it's even better in person?! I have some of the metallic black. I guess I
know what I'm playing with tonight!

Have you tried the Butterscotch? It reacts beautifully with Triton. I was wondering if that was the base color you used with
the metallic black scrolls.

Also, I agree with your post. I have been unable to find the words for how I feel about this situation. Your post, Cynthia's
and Sadie's posts have been spot-on in expressing how I have been feeling too. The thoughts I wrote last night are gone,
and I was just going to leave it at that. I hope the factory workers in India will profit from the sales of this glass, even if some
people choose not to buy it because of one ill-advised post. I have had stellar customer service from Natasha and Daniel.
They are extremely helpful over the phone.

Kelly
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  #558  
Old 2009-02-06, 11:53pm
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Megan, your beads are beautiful. I love the bottom one.

I also love the pinks and the Butterscotch but I think the burgundy and metalic black are my favorites.
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  #559  
Old 2009-02-06, 11:59pm
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Nice beads Megan. Yes I am sure Daniel was only defending his wife. Who has been nothing but gracious.

Michelle



Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan View Post
I am sure his reply was a combination of defending his wife and their business and a breaking point because I am sure they have been flooded with PMs full of nastiness. I may take the unpopular opinion but they are in business.. If I were starting their business, I would in no way give out my suppliers name. She has told you the country of origin, take with it what it implies and make a decision for yourself on whether you buy the glass or don't buy the glass. I for one believe that every single business, big or small, that does business with a company in an impoverished nation in the long run helps them.

There was a 60 minutes or 20/20 episode about the conditions in India and how they are still deplorable by american standards but were getting better. There was a man they spoke to that had to come into the city to work and he had been sleeping on the streets and now that the company he works for has more business and more money, they have allowed them to sleep at the factory which allows him to send home money to his family which has allowed his family to have a roof over their head. There is a trickle down effect. 20 years ago China was a different place than it is now.. It just takes time.. You have to start somewhere.

I for one like the glass. I didn't have the popping or cracking of the rods at all.. I did have one bead looks like a thermal crack and possibly an incompatability crack with my vetrofond clear encasement which is just getting to know new glass. How many colors do we put up with that we can't encase that come from effetre, etc. I will learn its idiosyncrasies. Anyway, here are some beads. Not the best pictures for sure.



metallic black stringer

This next one is the one I boiled the metallic black on.. doesn't look all that great in the photo but its a really cool effect in person.

This one stayed violet, however my photo makes it look kinda gray. It is violet in person.
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  #560  
Old 2009-02-07, 12:00am
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Hayley Hayley is offline
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I think it's completely naïve to think that buying the glass from India means that you are helping the people. Yes, you will be helping the pocketbook of the owners but will it really change the work environment and the lives of the workers?

It takes businesses going into these countries and either doing business with existing manufacturers or starting their own and hiring the local people – more importantly the businesses need to educate and insist that higher standards be met.
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  #561  
Old 2009-02-07, 12:02am
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Megan Megan is offline
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I believe the base is saffron. I don't have any names with the colors but I think thats what it was called. The picture makes it look like it has a rough surface but it is smooth.. I took the pics of the beads just sitting on my laptop.. Didn't feel like running out to the light box.. The glow of the computer monitor does nothing for them. LOL...

I have still butterscotch, trans. olive, and a few samples of some other colors to try. Got to cold in the garage to sit out there any longer today.. My nose was going to fall off.



Quote:
Originally Posted by glasshouse View Post
Wow, this is a gorgeous bead!!! And you say it's even better in person?! I have some of the metallic black. I guess I
know what I'm playing with tonight!

Have you tried the Butterscotch? It reacts beautifully with Triton. I was wondering if that was the base color you used with
the metallic black scrolls.

Also, I agree with your post. I have been unable to find the words for how I feel about this situation. Your post, Cynthia's
and Sadie's posts have been spot-on in expressing how I have been feeling too. The thoughts I wrote last night are gone,
and I was just going to leave it at that. I hope the factory workers in India will profit from the sales of this glass, even if some
people choose not to buy it because of one ill-advised post. I have had stellar customer service from Natasha and Daniel.
They are extremely helpful over the phone.

Kelly
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  #562  
Old 2009-02-07, 12:09am
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glasshouse glasshouse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan View Post
I believe the base is saffron. I don't have any names with the colors but I think thats what it was called. The picture makes it look like it has a rough surface but it is smooth.. I took the pics of the beads just sitting on my laptop.. Didn't feel like running out to the light box.. The glow of the computer monitor does nothing for them. LOL...

I have still butterscotch, trans. olive, and a few samples of some other colors to try. Got to cold in the garage to sit out there any longer today.. My nose was going to fall off.
I think I got a sample of the Saffron. It looked really yellow in rod form so I set it aside. I will have to try it. I really
like the Butterscotch. It is probably my favorite so far. It melts beautifully, sooo nice to work with. I wish I had gotten
the semi-opaque marine. It looks like a beautiful color. Was that the base on the first bead you posted? I am going to
go make beads tonight. It's cold but I work much better at night. I'll be up until the wee hours playing with glass. I have
to run down the hill to our mailbox to see if my DH odds came in. I can't wait to try them on the butterscotch.
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  #563  
Old 2009-02-07, 12:10am
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J&M J&M is offline
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Unhappy So sad...

LAMPWORK ETC.
A friendly place to bring together glass and jewelry artists... NOT.

I have much better things to do than read all this back-and-forth nastiness.
This "Forum" has turned into a very crummy place to be unless you're in the "upper class" of bead artists, "bead police", or post all day long every day of the week.

Whatever happened to innocent before proven guilty? Whatever happened to the lively and FRIENDLY banter about glass and how to work it? Apparently that doesn't matter anymore.

Such a shame.
Guess I need to take lessons on how to melt rods since I didn't have shattering problems.

It's way past my bedtime here.
Goodbye, and good luck to everyone.

Jack
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  #564  
Old 2009-02-07, 12:18am
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Megan Megan is offline
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The first one is the semiopaque marine. The saffron does look really yellow in rod form but if you look down the rod, it has rings of slightly different colors.. The butterscotch looked the same. I pulled a stringer to use it but just never got to it. Next on my list..

Quote:
Originally Posted by glasshouse View Post
I think I got a sample of the Saffron. It looked really yellow in rod form so I set it aside. I will have to try it. I really
like the Butterscotch. It is probably my favorite so far. It melts beautifully, sooo nice to work with. I wish I had gotten
the semi-opaque marine. It looks like a beautiful color. Was that the base on the first bead you posted? I am going to
go make beads tonight. It's cold but I work much better at night. I'll be up until the wee hours playing with glass. I have
to run down the hill to our mailbox to see if my DH odds came in. I can't wait to try them on the butterscotch.
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  #565  
Old 2009-02-07, 12:27am
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glasshouse glasshouse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan View Post
The first one is the semiopaque marine. The saffron does look really yellow in rod form but if you look down the rod, it has rings of slightly different colors.. The butterscotch looked the same. I pulled a stringer to use it but just never got to it. Next on my list..
Then I definitely need to get some semi-opaque marine! I did notice the rings on the saffron. Almost like some of the
Lauscha colors. My butterscotch was opaque. Its consistency is very similar to the ASK silver rattan and silver cinnamon.
I tried the opaque salmon too- well, I tried to try it and it popped everywhere. It was a 10mm rod and I didn't
bother with preheating it so the popping was mostly operator error. I'm going to try preheating it next time.
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  #566  
Old 2009-02-07, 3:08am
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Asil4 Asil4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKDesigns View Post
I'm truly shocked by the way a business person would publicly address customers and potential customers. That made the decision for me. What a way to kill a business in one fail swoop.

Quote:
Any glass supplier or business for that matter should always treat customers and other similar businesses with respect.
Do these standards apply to bead "making" business people as well? There are many "customers" and "potential customers" for them here, as well.
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  #567  
Old 2009-02-07, 7:09am
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Default black devardi

My question is for Natasha or any one who has tried the black rods. I saw the video on turning the black to silver and tried to lower the propane for more oxygen in the flame and it's not going silver. I am on a concentrator, do you have to be on tanks to do this.
thanks
Bob
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  #568  
Old 2009-02-07, 7:28am
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You know, Daniel's post didn't bother me so much. I know he is not familiar with the business of selling lampworking glass, and what people expect from their glass sellers. However, the following post does disturb me :

Quote:
Originally Posted by J&M View Post
LAMPWORK ETC.
A friendly place to bring together glass and jewelry artists... NOT.

I have much better things to do than read all this back-and-forth nastiness.
This "Forum" has turned into a very crummy place to be unless you're in the "upper class" of bead artists, "bead police", or post all day long every day of the week.

Whatever happened to innocent before proven guilty? Whatever happened to the lively and FRIENDLY banter about glass and how to work it? Apparently that doesn't matter anymore.

Such a shame.
Guess I need to take lessons on how to melt rods since I didn't have shattering problems.

It's way past my bedtime here.
Goodbye, and good luck to everyone.

Jack
Jack, I'm sorry if you took our posts as "unfriendly" as that is not the case at all. For the most part glass bead artists, as many other artists in other media, are very concerned about the conditions of peoples involved in bringing our materials to us. In every other glass that we buy we have asked for and been given the information, and the business owners have been honest with us. We know about all the factories and the owners of the factories and the working conditions within those factories. These things are important to us as a group. The quality of the product is also very important to us and the honesty of those selling those products. I'm not quite sure why you feel this glass seller should be treated any different than every other glass seller. I have not seen one rude post in this whole thread. People have been posting the truth, perhaps it is an ugly truth, but it is the truth. Given that the seller/importer will not give us information, then the only assumption that can be made is that this factory is like others in India. Do you really feel that working malnourished children until they die of silicosis is unimportant and should be left hidden because it interferes with you confidently buying a lower quality, inexpensive glass?



Daniel, I would just like to set the record straight on one thing, since I feel I am one of the ones being accused by you.

You stated in your post, "These are people who no doubt sell glass themselves, have friends who sell glass, receive free glass from vendors for testing or somehow are affected by us selling glass. Check their websites. They are also people who do very little but spend huge amounts of time on these threads, complaining, criticizing and trying to hurt people. Check their other threads." I do not sell glass, have never sold glass and will not be selling glass in the future. I do have friends, or at least acquaintances, who sell glass. I have been making beads for twenty years and know almost everyone who sells glass. I do not think the glass you are importing will have any affect on their business, but even if it did, if it was good quality glass and facts could be verified, I would have no problem at all with a new glass. I am in no way affected by you selling glass, be assured of that. I do, however, care about our community and feel this glass is not a good quality glass and as long as people realize that it is not and that beads made from the glass will not be first quality, and know the facts about glass factories in India, then their decision is up to them. I'm sorry that you feel that I spend "huge amounts of time on threads complaining, criticizing and trying to hurt people." I do seem to have more time to spend on the internet these days as I am not able to do some of the things I really want to do at this time. I do try to help out as much as possible, and if you were to look through my posts, I think you would find that I try to be completely honest and to help people and to not be rude or disparaging of others points of view.

To add one further note, I know of no one who is interested in importing this glass, so let me disabuse you of that idea. I don't believe that it should be imported, but that is my belief and others have their own.

I would not have bothered responding to this thread again, except for the fact that you pointedly accused me and several other people of things that are not true. Fact checking is always important when you are accusing someone of something.
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  #569  
Old 2009-02-07, 7:48am
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Pam >I agree
Daniel be prepared for an avalanche of questons you have the right to ignore any you choice not to answer. just as Jack can choose to not read any post that are wasting his time.
No one should be trying to stop the questions from being ask. .
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  #570  
Old 2009-02-07, 8:31am
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glassactcc glassactcc is offline
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Bob. What I have found with the black glass is that you have to make your bead or design with a normal flame and then when your done, turn your propane up and not your oxy down for a reduction flame. Go back to an oxy rich flame. I had to do this a couple of times to get it to work for me. It is an awesome color once you get it to go metallic.

Hope this helps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob View Post
My question is for Natasha or any one who has tried the black rods. I saw the video on turning the black to silver and tried to lower the propane for more oxygen in the flame and it's not going silver. I am on a concentrator, do you have to be on tanks to do this.
thanks
Bob
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